"Buffet Rule" For Millionaires

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-13-2009
"Buffet Rule" For Millionaires
35
Sun, 09-18-2011 - 2:12am

On the surface at least, it seems fair to me.

 

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-03-2009
Sun, 09-18-2011 - 1:05pm

A top House Republican accused President Obama of appealing to Americans' "fear, envy and anxiety" by pushing a new tax rate on people making more than $1 million annually, saying the "class warfare path" will only hurt the economy.

Jabberwocka

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-07-2002
Thu, 09-22-2011 - 12:24pm
My thoughts exactly!

 nwtreehugger  

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-05-2011
Fri, 09-23-2011 - 12:39pm
Corporations are taxed at 35% on profit. If profit is sent to share holders, those holders get to pay an extra 15% in taxes. Mr. Buffett's dividend income is taxed at 50% as 35% corporate income tax is paid before his dividend check is cut.

Buffet is currently fighting the IRS to pay less. He is in active litigation to pay less taxes. Considering he has lawyers fighting at his request to pay less to the IRS, it seems odd he's asking to pay more. He certainly isn't applying that philosophy to himself.


If you google 'buffett sues irs taxes' you'll see he has been fighting to pay less (billions less) in taxes for many years (and for many billions).

When Obama made his jobs speech before Congress. In the Presidential box, next to his wife, was Mr. Immelt, chairman of GE. GE pays no taxes, and GE moved many jobs offshore (recently almost 3,000 jobs in the past month went to China). Immelt has moved about half of all GE jobs offshore, but he is heading team Obama's job creation taskforce.

So lets recap. Immelt moves jobs offshore, pays no corporate taxes, but is leader of our job creation task force. Buffett sues to pay billions less in taxes, but wants to pay more taxes. Our Treasury secretary failed to pay his taxes, but now administers the IRS. The guy who wrote the tax laws (Charlie Rangel) failed to pay taxes, despite writing the laws.

Obama wants to close tax loopholes for the rich, but his plan is to make loopholes for preferred corporations owned by his rich friends who make things he likes (like green energy). If he wants to close loopholes, why is he opening more loopholes in the same legislation?
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-30-2002
Fri, 09-23-2011 - 2:20pm

We own our own business, and because of that we get deductions that the "regular Joes" don't get. We get to write off part of our house, power, phone, water bills. We get to deduct mileage and



iVillage Member
Registered: 02-05-2011
Fri, 09-23-2011 - 2:36pm
Businesses are taxed on profit. Profit is the income you have after deducting expenses. Generally small businesses are taxed as individuals in the U.S. As such the tax rate tends to be similar to that of a salaried worker. With the exception that you should be paying much more for social security and other payroll deductions. Usually a worker pays half the payroll tax and an employer pays the other half. If you are a small business often you get to pay both halves which means more tax, and not many deductions against that.

Many people required to wear uniforms are permitted to deduct costs associated with those from income if not compensated by a company.

A DBA or sole proprietorship is not the same as a corporation of the sort Mr. Buffett or Mr. Immelt are managing.

Mr. Buffett is attending Obama fund raisers while disputing payments to the IRS while saying he wants to pay more. There is a clear conflict here. He is currying political favor with the people who are supposed to be running agencies that are trying to extract taxes from him. I suspect Mr. Buffett has absolutely no desire to pay more taxes, but will say anything if it helps his case with the IRS.

If we took all the money all millionaires have, every cent from every one worth one billion dollars or more, and then took every cent from every Fortune 500 company, it wouldn't pay our federal budget for a year.

Almost half of Americans pay $0 in income tax. The 2,000 richest people in America already pay the lions share of taxes. That is about 140,000,000 paying nothing (free loading?) and 2,000 paying a large percentage of the taxes. Yet somehow they don't pay enough? If you took everything, you couldn't fund our government.

44% of our federal spending is via printed money. In a few years, the U.S. will need 20% of the worlds GDP just to fund it's debt. We already pay China most of the cost of their military even with artificially low interest rates.

We need to cut federal spending, a lot. Nobody likes that, not even me. It is an inconvenient truth.

Search for "eat the rich" on youtube sometime, it will explain it better than I can.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-13-2009
Fri, 09-23-2011 - 2:38pm
You bring up interesting points. GE, for one. I'd heard something about that. Will brush up on it. I'm sick of tax frauds (and fraudulent gov't spending, as in my other thread.)



 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-03-2009
Sat, 09-24-2011 - 11:06am
How about some links to back your statements? I've seen many claims from conservatives, Republicans and "Tea Partiers" with similar statements. And many of them turn out to be a conglomeration of partial fact, strategic omission, and outright lie.

For instance, investment earnings ARE taxed at a lower rate. Kinda interesting that you left that salient fact out.

It's also interesting that you focused on GE and Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway (Jeffrey Imelt, GE's CEO is well-known target of conservatives because he has a close association with Obama) when GE is just one of the more egregious offenders when it comes to dodging its fair share of tax burden. Amusing that only the one company is targeted.......

BTW, a YouTube entitled "Eat the Rich" isn't likely to be unbiased.......

Jabberwocka

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-03-2009
Sat, 09-24-2011 - 11:10am

Jabberwocka

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-05-2011
Sat, 09-24-2011 - 4:44pm

Investment earnings are taxed at a lower rate. For most, investment cash has already been taxed. If a dividend comes from a corporation it has already paid corporate tax, if an investment is from a bond, it is either tax exempt (the case with many government bonds) or it is used to generate corporate income which should be taxed at 35%. Taxing an extra 15% on something that has already been taxed at 35% seems like enough tax to me.

Obama has focused on Immelt and Buffett. They become subjects of interest in the areas they are "helping" Obama in. Buffett does not like paying taxes and fights hard to pay as little as possible.

Google any of these people add irs, tax dispute or whatever and you'll be about to read about their issues.

For Buffett see - http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/08/29/warren-buffetts-company-hasnt-paid-taxes-years-media-mum

According to Berkshire Hathaway’s own annual report — see Note 15 on pp. 54-56 — the company has been in a years-long dispute over its federal tax bills.

According to the report, “We anticipate that we will resolve all adjustments proposed by the U.S. Internal Revenue Service (‘IRS’) for the 2002 through 2004 tax years at the IRS Appeals Division within the next 12 months. The IRS has completed its examination of our consolidated U.S. federal income tax returns for the 2005 and 2006 tax years and the proposed adjustments are currently being reviewed by the IRS Appeals Division process. The IRS is currently auditing our consolidated U.S. federal income tax returns for the 2007 through 2009 tax years.”

Americans for Limited Government researcher Richard McCarty, who was alerted to the controversy by a federal government lawyer, said, “The company has been short-changing the tax collection agency for much of the past decade. Mr. Buffett’s company has not fully settled its tax bills from 2002-2009. Yet he says he’d happily pay more. Except the IRS has apparently been asking him to pay more going on nine years.”

*****

As to Immelt see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1812066

A report in Monday’s Washington Post described the transfer of a virtual reality display system for airplane cockpits that GE is transferring to the Chinese as part of its joint venture with a Chinese state-owned company. The display system GE is transferring was originally developed using Synthetic Vision technology created by NASA in partnership with private industry. NASA has committed millions of dollars to pursue development of synthetic vision systems.

Kucinich added, “American taxpayers subsidized the development of this advanced technology, but U.S. taxpayers’ investment will end up creating jobs in China. In the short term, GE is selling products to the Chinese, which will help GE’s bottom line. In the long term, the Chinese will end up manufacturing and selling products using the same technologies that were made in America.”

“The United States has long been the leader in aerospace development and manufacturing. We have the best-trained, most skilled workers which give American-made aerospace products a natural competitive advantage. How can Mr. Immelt be the head of the President’s ‘Jobs and Competiveness Council’ while undermining the United State’s advantage in aerospace?” asked Kucinich. "In light of these revelations, Mr. Immelt should save the President the embarrassment of asking him to step down and voluntarily resign."

GE has aggressively sought to cut the percentage of its American profits paid to the I.R.S., paying just a third of the average taxes paid by other American multinational companies. In 2000, 54% of General Electric's employees worked in the U.S. That number dropped to 46% in 2010. Since Mr. Immelt assumed office on September 7, 2001, GE has cut one-fifth of its U.S. work force while increasing overseas employment.

"Obviously he is more qualified to be head of ‘Jobs and Competitiveness’ for a country other than the United States," Kucinich concluded.

****

As to Eat the Rich, I strongly advise you review it. You can check the sources cited. If this helps any, the Eat the Rich video was inspired by the blog post "Feed Your Family on $10 Billion a Day" which is here - http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2011/03/feed-your-family-on-10-billion-a-day.html

From the above - "So let's all sit down together as an American family with a calendar and make a yearly budget. First, let's lock in the $3.7 trillion of critical family spending priorities; now let's get to work on collecting the pay-as-we-go $10 billion daily cash flow we need.

12:01 AM, January 1
Let's start the year out right by going after some evil corporations and their obscene profits. And who is more evil than those twin spawns of Lucifer himself, Exxon Mobil and Walmart? Together these two largest American industrial behemoths raked in, between them, $34 billion in 2010 global profits. Let's teach 'em both a lesson and confiscate it for the public good. This will get us through...

9:52 AM January 4
Okay, maybe I underestimated our take. But we shouldn't let Exxon and Walmart distract us from all those other corporate profiteers out there worth shaking down. In fact, why don't we grab every cent of 2010 profit made by the other 498 members of the Fortune 500? That will net us another, let's see, $357 billion! Enough to get us to...

2:00 AM February 9
So we're running out of corporate cash, but look - it's Super Bowl time! As we all know, the game has become a crass disgusting festival of commercialism. So let's take all the TV ad money spent on stupid Super Bowl ads, and apply that to government needs. That would be $250 million, enough to fund us for, let's see... 36 minutes. The half time show, at least. But why stop there? Let's take every cent of ad money spent on all 45 Super Bowls, a cool $5 billion, which would cover us until...

2:00 PM February 9
Speaking of sports, why should the players be immune to our pressing public needs? Lord knows professional athletes make obscene salaries for playing a dumb game. So let's take the combined salaries of all players in the NFL, Major League Baseball, the NBA, and the NHL. Hey, they've got endorsement deals, they'll hardly miss it. Throw in the total winnings of everybody on the PGA tour and NASCAR, and we get $9.4 billion, enough to get us through until...

1:00 PM February 10
Okay, it's time to stop messing around. Athletes aren't the only ones greedily raking it in. What about America's rich - those fancy pants fat cats living the high life in the above-$250,000 income bracket? According to IRS statistics, these 1.93% of US households are hogging 25% of US income. And why do they need it? For crying out loud, they probably stole it anyway. I say let's take 100% of every penny they make above $250,000. They can use the rest to pay their state and local taxes. Now we're talking big bucks, brother. How much? Let's see...



A: Number of US households: 116,000,000
B: Average US household income: $68,000 (median = $52,000)
C: Total US household income (A * B): $7.89 trillion
D: Percent of households above $250k income: 1.93%
E: Number of households above $250k income (A*D): 2,238,800
F: Percent of national income earned by households making $250k or more = 25%
G: Total income of households making $250k or more (C*F): $1.97 trillion
H: Total income of households in excess of $250k (G - E*$250,000) = $1.412 trillion



Alright! Take that, fat cats! Our $1.412 trillion windfall has us covered for the next 141 days, or until...

6:00 PM July 2
Well, I guess maybe there are a few items we can cut from the budget. Those quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan, for example. Why don't we end all funding for those wars, and bring our troops home to march in the Fourth of July parade? That would save us $105 billion Afghanistan and $159 billion in Iraq, a total of $264 billion - enough savings to cover us until...

4:00 AM July 29
Summer blockbuster season! And of course the biggest blockbuster of all time was Star Wars. To punish George Lucas for those stupid sequels, let's confiscate every penny of revenue generated by the Star Wars franchise since 1977 - movies, TV rights, books, toys, action figures, everything - which nets us $25 billion. Enough to keep the lights on until...

4:00 PM August 1
Well, there's plenty more money in Hollywood to go after. So, for the national good, let's evict everyone in Beverly Hills and sell their homes at current market value. 15,000 homes at $2 million per gets us another $30 billion, paying the bills through...

4:00 PM August 4
The kids will be going back to school soon, so we're gonna have to bring out the big guns and really go after those moneybag plutocrats like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates. Between 'em, those two have amassed a combined fortune of $100 billion. What kind of jerk needs that kind of money? The worst thing is they're shielding it from the public treasury using the oldest trick in the billionaire playbook - by continuing to live. Once they kick the bucket, and after we close the estate tax loopholes, the American public will get the 50% of their ill-gotten loot we so richly deserve. So let's say we assume a couple of unfortunate "accidents" for Mssrs. Gates and Buffett. Now we've got another $50 billion for the US coffers, enough to get us to...

4:00 PM August 9
There are plenty more American billionaires to go after - 398 more to be precise, according to the latest Forbes 400, with a combined total net worth of $1.29 trillion. 398 more "accidents," 398 more estates taxed at 50%, and we've got another $650 billion to tide us through...

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-05-2011
Sat, 09-24-2011 - 5:10pm

I am replying to my own post here and trying to ask all to read the last part of the post which discusses how much the rich can pay to cover our budget.

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