Obama gave orders to kill, not capture, Bin Ladin

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-05-2011
Obama gave orders to kill, not capture, Bin Ladin
23
Mon, 05-02-2011 - 4:56pm

I know a lot of people (myself included) are happy that Bin Ladin is no more.

There is a disturbing article from Reuters that the goal was to kill, not capture Bin Ladin. I'm not certain, but believe this is an extra judicial assassination. Either an assassination or a war crime, take your pick. I know many were not happy when Bush was invading Iraq. I'm uncertain if our President, on his own authority, can or should ever order a summary execution of an individual. It is doubtful Bin Ladin would surrender, and it is for the best that he is gone. However, establishing a doctrine that a President can kill someone via our military without any judicial or other process (than his own judgment) seems dangerous to me.

My concern is Obama may be targeting and killing people, who could be taken alive for trail and debriefing. IF Obama is killing people to avoid repopulating Gitmo, I believe we have a war crime. If not, then it may just be a debate about what is a war crime. I know when Bush targeted people, many news stories were published about armed drone use as being a war crime.

The story is here http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-binladen-kill-idUSTRE7413H220110502


(Reuters) - The U.S. special forces team that hunted down Osama bin Laden was under orders to kill the al Qaeda mastermind, not capture him, a U.S. national security official told Reuters.

"This was a kill operation," the official said, making clear there was no desire to try to capture bin Laden alive in Pakistan.


Regardless of the figures used, the case that extrajudicial killings are justified is extremely weak, and the number of civilian casualties is far too high to justify their continued use.

A further twist to the Obama Doctrine is the breaking of a taboo that the Bush administration balked at – the concept of treating US citizens outside of the US constitutional process. During the Bush era, the treatment of detainees such as John Walker Lindh, Yasser Hamdi and Jose Padilla showed reluctance by officials to treat their own nationals in the way it had all those of other nationalities (by, for instance, sending them to Guantánamo Bay and other secret prisons). The policy of discrimination reserved for US citizens showed that there was a line the US was not willing to cross.

At least, today, we can strike discrimination off the list of grievances against the current president. The National Security Council of the US has now given specific permission to the CIA to target certain US citizens as part of counter-terrorism operations. Specifically, Anwar al-Awlaki has been singled out for such treatment, as it has been claimed that he was directly involved in the planning of the Major Hasan Nidal killings and the Christmas Day bomber attacks. Indeed, it is claims such as this that bring the entire concept of targeted assassinations into question. The US would like us to believe that we should simply trust that they have the relevant evidence and information to justify such a killing, without bringing the individual to account before a court.

The assumption that trust should be extended to a government that has involved itself in innumerable unlawful and unconscionable practices since the start of the war on terror is too much to ask. Whatever goodwill the US government had after 9/11 was destroyed by the way in which it prosecuted its wars. Further, the hope that came with the election of Barack Obama has faded as his policies have indicated nothing more than a reconfiguration of the basic tenet of the Bush Doctrine – that the US's national security interests supersede any consideration of due process or the rule of law. The only difference – witness the rising civilian body count from drone attacks – being that Obama's doctrine is even more deadly.

Another discussion contrasting Bush and Obama doctrines is here http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/apr/11/obama-national-security-drone-guantanamo

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-07-2002
Tue, 05-03-2011 - 12:52pm
We have no proof that the order was 'kill only'. From what I've heard it was capture or kill. I'd like to see the evidence.

 nwtreehugger  

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-05-2011
Tue, 05-03-2011 - 1:40pm
The CBS News story is online, you can watch it anytime. Go 2 minutes and 14 seconds into the 5/2/2011 CBS evening news which is here http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7364719n&tag=contentMain;contentBody at 2 minutes and 45 seconds CBS news shows a Wikileaks document indicating that the name of the courier was revealed by enhanced interrogation of KSM and later confirmed by another leader who was captured with information obtained by enhanced interrogation of KSM.

At 2 minutes and 47 seconds in the CBS news story is showing an image of a wikileaks web page with the name maulawi abd al-khaliq jan indicating it was provided to U.S. intelligence. maulawi abd al-khaliq jan was the key to finding OBL.

More information is here http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2011/05/02/1997277/tip-that-led-to-bin-laden-may.html

The most striking clue so far available about how bin Laden was hunted down appears in the secret Guantanamo assessment file of Abu Faraj al Libi, a Libyan detainee who was named as al Qaida's third most senior leader when he was captured in May 2005.

According to the assessment, al Libi was in contact with a man identified as bin Laden's "designated courier, Maulawi Abd al-Khaliq Jan," in July 2003. The assessment was one of more than 750 obtained by the WikiLeaks website and given to McClatchy and other media organizations.

About that same time, the assessment said, al Libi moved his family to Abbottabad, Pakistan, the same town where bin Laden was killed early Monday during a raid by a U.S. tactical team.

The senior U.S. official confirmed to reporters during a briefing that the courier in question was "a trusted assistant of Abu Faraj al Libi."

Al Libi moved his family out of Abbottabad in mid-2004, the year before the large compound that housed bin Laden was built at the end of a narrow dirt road.

The name of bin Laden's designated courier, al Khaliq Jan, appears to have come from al Libi during 2005 and 2006 interrogations. Al Libi was in CIA custody from shortly after his capture until he was transferred with 13 other "high-value detainees" to Guantanamo in September 2006.


In addition to al Libi, the bin Laden courier was also identified by detainees as "a protege of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of September 11th," who is also now at Guantanamo, according to the senior U.S. official. It was Mohammed's capture in 2003 that pushed al Libi into the position of al Qaida's operational chief, according to al Libi's Guantanamo file.

Bradsher, at the Pentagon, confirmed that Guantanamo detainees had learned of bin Laden's death. Asked about their reaction, she said that "right now, everything continues to be normal."
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-05-2011
Tue, 05-03-2011 - 1:44pm

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-05-2011
Tue, 05-03-2011 - 1:50pm

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-05-2011
Tue, 05-03-2011 - 1:52pm

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-30-2002
Tue, 05-03-2011 - 4:03pm

If the UN wants to bring charges against Obama, I would support that. But, given what the previous administration ADMITTED to, and got a free pass on, it's highly doubtful.



iVillage Member
Registered: 03-03-2009
Tue, 05-03-2011 - 9:49pm

You have no proof whatsoever that Obama ordered a kill to avoid detaining and trying OBL.

What war crime are you trying to insinuate should be attributed to Obama? HE did not order a war of pre-emption, nor did he authorize his government to use rendition or "enhanced interrogation techniques".

Jabberwocka

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-07-2002
Wed, 05-04-2011 - 1:50pm
Well said!

 nwtreehugger  

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-03-2009
Wed, 05-04-2011 - 3:34pm

When Eric Holder wanted to have civil trials for Guantanamo detainees, Republicans protested en masse.

Jabberwocka

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-11-2005
Fri, 05-06-2011 - 3:17am

And it seems to me that I've seen a deck of cards that we were using as wanted posters? But as far as I know it was Bush who put a bounty on OBL head not Obama. OBL wasn't the head of some country, he was just a terriorst who thankfully is dead. So it's not important who gave the order to shot to kill (and I beleive the wanted poster I saw for him said Dead or Alive) it's done with now

~~Sam stitches well with others, runs with scissors in her pocket. Cheerful and stupid.