Wisconsin

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-02-2009
Wisconsin
102
Mon, 02-21-2011 - 11:27pm

http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/02/wisconsin-its-unions-vs-people-0

The ferment in Wisconsin is no workers' uprising against the rich and powerful. It is instead political muscle-flexing by a well-funded special interest group, which is limbering up for President Obama's re-election bid. Obama's campaign, operating as Organizing for America, is bussing protesters to the state capitol...

Government unions in Wisconsin perfectly match the definition of "special interests," a term Obama often invokes. Four of the top six Wisconsin contributors to the 2010 elections were labor unions, with the state's teachers union giving $119,342 and the Wisconsin chapter of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees spending $83,888. The teachers union gave 96 percent of its money to Democrats, while Wisconsin AFSCME gave Democrats every penny.

"Resist, we much. We must, and we much. About that, be committed."

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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-04-2010
In reply to: anthony60
Sun, 03-13-2011 - 3:33pm
"Finally, teachers lost the moral edge in the debate about salary & benefits when they refused to consider accountability as a prerequisite for job security."

Teachers have no problems with accountability as long as it is based on things they can control. Do you think physicians should be paid based on how healthy their patients are or dentists by how few cavities their patient's have? It's the same thing with teachers...teachers provide the information and it is up to the student what they do with it. They can either learn it and be able to apply it or they just let it go in one ear and out the other.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-02-2009
In reply to: anthony60
Sun, 03-13-2011 - 11:09pm

.teachers provide the information and it is up to the student what they do with it. They can either learn it and be able to apply it or they just let it go in one ear and out the other.

So, you feel that they are pretty much like robots, all just serving up the course curriculum with no teacher able to do a better job than any other teacher? And thus, no point in trying to have raises based on how well they do their jobs?

It's not like that where my kids go to school. The teachers are all different individuals, and some do a better job than others, like any other job.

"Resist, we much. We must, and we much. About that, be committed."

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-04-2010
In reply to: anthony60
Mon, 03-14-2011 - 7:35am
Nice way to put words in my mouth. I said nothing of the sort.

You seriously don't think that it's up to the student how much they get out of their education? Great teachers are absolutely part of a good education, but if the student doesn't want to hear it, it doesn't matter how great the teacher is.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-02-2009
In reply to: anthony60
Mon, 03-14-2011 - 10:09am

I think that the good teachers should get better raises than the lesser teachers, and it's a load of BS to say they can't be evaluated. Everyone knows who the good teachers are in their school systems, so don't try and pass that baloney that teachers can't be evaluated because of the students. And tenure can go out the window too, there's no need for that.

"Resist, we much. We must, and we much. About that, be committed."

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-04-2010
In reply to: anthony60
Mon, 03-14-2011 - 12:02pm
Anthony, it's readily apparent that you have no clue what you are talking about. Bad teachers can get fired. It just takes documentation by the principal. The "tenure" that you are talking about is in reality passing a probation period. Once that probation period is passed, administrators must be able to prove a teacher is not performing/incompetent. They cannot simply fire someone because they don't happen to like them for whatever silly reason. My husband works under such a petty administrator who would absolutely get rid of people who dare to not kiss her butt.

There's a situation in my district where five failing schools are trying to get government grants. In order to apply, they need to get rid of the principal and replace at least 50% of the teachers in that school. If a principal hasn't been there for three years, that principal gets to stay, but the staff must be replaced (at least 50%). My husband's school is one of them. His rotten principal gets to stay and the teachers all have to reapply at that school or apply at other schools. What I think should happen is that the staff from his school should be switched completely with the staff from one of the highest achieving schools that everyone is always claiming has the best teachers (because of test scores and high graduation rates). I can guarantee you that the graduation rate/test scores wouldn't change with either school, and would prove once and for all to the public that it isn't the teachers who are to blame.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2001
In reply to: anthony60
Mon, 03-14-2011 - 12:26pm

Unions certainly have failed. . .look at California, Detroit, Ohio, New York.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2001
In reply to: anthony60
Mon, 03-14-2011 - 12:29pm

That attitude is why our schools are failing.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2001
In reply to: anthony60
Mon, 03-14-2011 - 12:31pm

Yes, and - by the way - physicans are held accountable: a physician who fails to meet standards for care generally gets sued!

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-04-2010
In reply to: anthony60
Mon, 03-14-2011 - 1:19pm
Most of their waking hours? Seriously? As a teacher, I had students for 5 hours a day, so 25 hours a week. In other words, I had students for 15% of the week. If you think that parents don't have anything to do with how well a child does in school, your head is in the sand.
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-04-2010
In reply to: anthony60
Mon, 03-14-2011 - 1:23pm
Standard of care is different than whether a patient follows what the physician prescribes or educates a patient about. Teachers provide the information and provide extra help if a student doesn't understand. Beyond that, it is up to the student whether they put forth any effort. A better analogy would be a physician giving a wrong diagnosis that adversely affects the patient compared to a teacher who fails to follow the curriculum and for example teaches students "intelligent design." Both would be malpractice.

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