Abusive Father = Abusive Son?

Avatar for mom2dylan2001
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Registered: 05-19-2003
Abusive Father = Abusive Son?
6
Tue, 08-22-2006 - 4:14pm

Hi all, I haven't been around much in awhile. Kind of taking a break from the constant analyzing of my situation and, we've been in a pretty good cycle for the last few months. Very little fighting, which is nice. Anyway, my MIL was with us all last week watching our kids and in talking to her, I was left with wondering more about H's childhood - as I usually am after conversations with her regarding H growing up and what my FIL was like with H and his brother and sister.

First of all, it seems we all get stuck in these abusive relationships because there is always a "good" side. We all seem to fall back on this good side as justification for staying. And, when there are kids involved, it gets even more difficult. I find myself thinking "well, he can be so good with the kids". He'll read to them, take them to breakfast/the park/the mall etc. At the same time I can counteract that with "He also yells at them when they cry (esp. DS - 5), says they're being little brats, tells DS he's being a "mean kid"." Then I say "but, he apologizes, hugs them, kisses them..." Jeez, I can go on and on. Well this time, I watched it happening with MIL.

I mentioned something H did with DS and told her how I stood up to him about it. Luckily, she and I have a great relationship and can discuss these things. Then she started to say how volatile her H was with their kids when they were younger. She mentioned some of the same things - especially the yelling at the boys when they cried. What she didn't need to mention is what I've seen - the guilt trips, the sarcastic comments, etc. But she stopped herself then and said "But he's a really good man and has done alot of good things for those boys. I know they have their issues with him and it drives them crazy when they're compared to him but they both need to get over it and move on." True - FIL is a very generous man. He makes very good money and doesn't hesitate to share it with his family. But, does that make up for the "dark" side? The side that can make people feel guilty and humiliated? His sons, my H included, make enough comments about how after their dad retires they give their parents' marriage about 5 years. They joke, but they're also serious. I know that she was treated the same way as my H treats me now. I think she's made it through because her H traveled alot for work. He also doesn't seem as controlling now, but I think he used to be, just based on what my H and his brother have said.

Long story short, I see her doing what I do now - justifying her H's actions because of the "good" things he's done. But she also basically implied that kids have to get used to different people and their different reactions in stressful situations, i.e. it's just in her son's and her H's nature to yell or overreact and I'm not that way so my kids are just seeing that people react differently. I felt that she was implying that it would be useless for me to try to get H to change. And, while she's saying that her boys hate being compared to their father, she doesn't want to admit that it's a BAD thing and that MAYBE they are the way they are BECAUSE of their FATHER!!! So, how can the way he treated his son's be acceptable? Because now he's really nice to them? And I'm supposed to think that my kids will turn out fine, even though her son is doing the same things his father did? She KNOWS my H is really a disaster, but absolutely refuses to admit it any further than on a superficial level. She doesn't live with him (her son, my H) anymore, therefore she can let herself think that as long he has a great job, making good money, with a nice house that he's fine now? And that I should overlook how he treats his kids? Not to mention ME? Seems like I'm perpetuating a vicious cycle here.

Is anyone on the same page as me here? I really just feeling defeated today and needed somewhere to go to vent again. I know I've been in a good cycle with H lately, but I also know deep down that it doesn't mean sh*t, except that it's alot easier to get through the days. I know I want more from my life though, than just making it through without rocking the boat too much. And, above all, I do not want my son turning out like H. My son is just the best little kid and I don't want him ruined.

Hugs to all of you ladies. I don't post much, just don't have the time, but I read through many and all of my thoughts are with you. We all just deserve so much more!

Lisa

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-19-2006
Tue, 08-22-2006 - 5:39pm

Hi Lisa,

Unfortunatley, I am not in the same situtation as you. I just got out of an abusive relationship, but we didn't have any kids. I did see resemblance between my abuser and his dad. I actually talked to my X's mom one time and she said that my X's dad would say mean things to her, and she would just brush them off. She probably never admitted that she was verbally abused. With me, I was verbally abused, but eventually I stood up because I do not deserve to be yelled/cursed at ever.

I totally agree that it is always the good side that you fall onto. I gave my X chance after chance because I seen his good qualities come out.... but then there were the bad qualities that eventually overpowered the good qualities. It would be so much more difficult if there were children involved. I am just thankful now that i never have children with this man. I remember about a month before we split (I was realizing what kind of relationship I was in) he wanted me to go off the pill and see what happens!! I just remember thinking, do you think I'm crazy and stupid!!?? He was trying to make another reason for me to be stuck with him.. but I was becoming smarter.

My opinion is that your MIL does not want to actually admit that the FIL is abusive and that has led to all the kids in that family to become abusive. That would probably haunt me too. It is very hard to actually admit to being in abusive situations. But I'm sure you already know all that.

I know I haven't really given you any advice... I don't totally understand, just because I didn't have any children involved in my abusive relationship.

Lauren

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 08-23-2006 - 11:30am
mom2dylan...kids learn what they live. Your husband is similar to his Dad in character because that's what was modeled for him. It's such crap that it's in their "nature" to yell or overreact to things. They do it because they want the power in the relationship, they believe they're entitled to things they're not entitled to, because they're self-centered human beings who care about themselves above all, and because they have extremely unrealistic expectations of what life and people should be. This is LEARNED, it is not "nature". What she is right about is that it would be useless to try to get your husband to change because these kinds of beliefs are picked up very early in life and is his view of the world. Trying to get him to accept that his worldview is wrong would be like me trying to convince you that all your life you've been wrong about colors. If I told you that the color of grass is really blue and the color of the sky is really green and that you were taught all wrong, you wouldn't buy it at all. All your life your beliefs on that have been reinforced and so have his on what he's entitled to and what life and people should be. He's had it reinforced by his entire family, by cultural influences, and by other men around him as he would choose friends who think similarly to him. She wants to stay in denial and minimize the damage that's been done because it's easier for her, but it's not right. Your son is definitely in danger of learning your husband's destructive and distorted beliefs and values. And kids identify strongest with the same sex parent. A friend of mine got out of her abusive relationship with a man who is highly entitled, extremely threatening, yet has not resorted to violence. She divorced him after 19 years and has 4 children. One night she called me extremely upset when she heard her oldest, a teenaged son, on the phone with a girlfriend who was trying to end the relationship. He said to her "I want to come over there and slit your throat." Since that time, he has another girlfriend who his younger brothers have witnessed abusing under her roof. This has been an extremely difficult situation for her as she knows she stayed too long and is not able to influence him as he relates to his father more than with her, even though his father treated him like crap his whole life (he provided well for the family materially only). She is heartbroken. He is worse than his father. Her 13 year old daughter has tons of issues and while the 9 year old twin boys seem to be okay she can't tell yet how much influence their father has had on them yet. I don't think it's worth the risks to stay with any abuser - violent or not. They have extremely serious problems and are human beings, yes, but the cost is just way too high. It's not worth it. I wish you the best.
Avatar for mom2dylan2001
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-19-2003
Wed, 08-23-2006 - 4:49pm

Lauren,

Thanks for your reply. And how awesome that you got out of your abusive relationship. I know how hard it must have been.

I know you're right. My MIL does not want to admit to being in an abusive relationship herself. What's crazy is, from what I've heard about her father, I'm pretty sure he was abusive as well. Argh, what have I gotten myself mixed up in? On the outset his whole family seemed, and seems for the most part, to be nice, normal people. But, having known them all for about 8 years now and having paid much more close attention over the last 2 years, wow, I am learning alot.

I don't want this for my kids. At all. What a mess.

Thank you again and big hugs to you for having the strength to get out.

Avatar for mom2dylan2001
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-19-2003
Wed, 08-23-2006 - 5:01pm

Sweetdreams,

You really worded your response so well. Comparing it to learning your colors. That was a great comparison and it really hit it home with me. I mean, my H sees nothing wrong with what he does. It's who he has grown up to be and I will never be able to change it, and he doesn't see anything wrong with who he is so why would HE attempt to make a change?

Your friend's situation with her son is frightening and heartbreaking and such a wake up call for me. Even moreso than my conversation with my MIL. I don't know how I could live with myself if I allow this to continue. On the other hand, with a divorce, H would still be spending time with our kids. Not as much as they'd be with me, for sure, but I guess my fear is that it would still be enough to damage my kids. Alot of the time he is fine with them. I guess it would still be better than staying with him.

So many things to think about and decisions to make. It's exhausting.

Thanks again for your take on the situation. I agree with you 100%.

Lisa

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 08-24-2006 - 10:46am
Hi again...here's my take on what you said about husband still having them if you get divorced. You're right, he will. But the upside of it is that your son will experience a positive, healthy, loving, happier environment 80% of the time with you, and he will never experience it at all if you stay with your husband. In my experience, both personal (being a survivor of child molestation) and professional, I believe that the primary thing that saves children who experience and witness any sort of abuse from being totally screwed up like your husband is that they have other points of view and see other options for life that are stronger and more affirming. His chances are much, much better if he is raised the majority of time in a non-abusive home. The damage is much less. I know it's hard to make such major life changing decisions and it takes time to clarify everything. You'll find the answers you need in time, just keep on doing what you're doing and research and ask questions.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-25-2006
Fri, 08-25-2006 - 2:18pm
You're right, we all deserve more. We all deserve that knight, the one who will hug us and make us happy at any cost. The one who will die fighting for our smile and never want to see us unhappy or cry. Why should any of us suffer for one second without it? And does it truly exist? Do we suffer a lifetime for those few days of happiness we get with the Dr. Jekyll side of our H's or do we make changes knowing that we will only have to deal with them on a superficial level hoping that the changes we made will make that HUGE difference in our sons lives to not allow them to repeat the cycle? If we stay, does it show our sons that it is ok to treat women this way, or children of their own? Or by staying do we teach our daughters to stand for being treated like this? Or do we explain to our children later after we have left, at an older age when they will better understand that we made the change in order to make their lives happier? It is all so confusing and who knows how it will all turn out.
I hate reading statistics on how messed up the children of divorced families bcome or how introverted and angry they are. It makes the decisions to leave that much harder. Are their any statistics on how they end up seeing their dad's scream at their mom's on a daily/weekly basis? And how removing them from the situation is an attribute to their character?
Save the children I guess is what I'm trying to say...however you see that answer. Save the children for their future, and the future of your grandchildren. Do you want to be having this same discussion with one of your DIL's? I hope this helped...it actually helped me make a few decisions. Funny how voicing an opinion can lead to inner strength. So THANK YOU!