dss can take your kids for this s@#$t.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-12-2003
dss can take your kids for this s@#$t.
29
Sun, 02-22-2004 - 11:05pm
you guys, this is really serious stuff, and what i have to say is not encouraging or nice, but in retrospect i wish someone had given me the info. so i feel i have to say something. i know we on this board are all for saying get out and call the police, and i do think that that is the way to go, but that's exactly what i did and it is coming back to bite me, HARD. as you all know, about three weeks ago i went to the police when stbx assaulted me, and pressed criminal charges against him. when i did, i told them the entire truth about the incident, what happened, where it happened, and that my children were in the room. stbx went to jail for assault in the presence of a child, and that is a charge that automaticlly generates a child protective services case. so dss became involved with what's left of my family, and are now attempting to take my children for failure to protect. it's a very long story, complete with lies, changing stories, untrue allegations, and ridiculous threats, but right now i'm afraid to let my kids out of my sight for fear that cps will swoop them. this is so much worse than life with stbx ever was. neither stbx nor i have EVER hurt our kids, and never would, not to mention the fact that i DID protect my kids by putting stbx in jail. i did the absolute best in my power to keep my kids and myself safe, and now i am in a much worse hell. this system is so f-d up, i am being punished for doing the right thing, and there is nothing i can do except fight tooth and nail for my kids.

but i want you guys to listen very carefully: if you have kids, and your kids witness an assault, do NOT tell the police, the judge, or dss that the children were present. i repeat, DO NOT mention that your children were present. dss is not on your side, and they will not help you put your life back together, they will only make things worse. i wish with all my heart that i could go back and do things over, and never say a word about my kids. no matter what a good parent you are, and how badly you may have been trying to do the right thing, once cps has an investigation on you and has evidence that your h/bf assaulted you in the presence your kids, then they have enough to take your kids, whether it was your fault or not. hopefully noone else would have the same response from dss that i have had, but it's not worth the risk. just leave that part out.

i wish you all the best of luck

clarity

Avatar for silvermoon458
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 02-23-2004 - 6:55pm

Clarity, I hear in all your posts just how enraged you are at what has happened. I can imagine that this is a frightening time for you. Your children are so precious to you.


Hugs,


Christine

Outside ideas of right doing and wrong doing, there is a field. I will meet you there. -- Rumi
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-11-2003
Tue, 02-24-2004 - 1:27am

Clarity, I completely understand your fear and your anger.

Peace and hugs,

Cheryl =)

The minute you settle for less than you

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-07-2003
Tue, 02-24-2004 - 2:22am
Claritysblue,


I understand your reaction to the responses, as well as the anger and emotions you're dealing with right now. Everyone who responded has tried to help, sharing what they have exprerienced, along with offering support to you during this most difficult time, and we do care....not to mention understand, more than you could possibly imagine.

I could write a 10 mile long post on this *topic* alone, along with my personal situation and *the system*. It is the scariest thing in the world to hear that Social Services is involved in your life, regardless of the circumstances, and yes, we hear more of the *horror stories* with this agency than the *good things* they do for families. Yes, the *system* is flawed, and that very system is only as good as the people involved with each agency in each area. This is where we can make a difference, and where we can help each other by sharing our personal experiences, along with research, information, resources, tools, and more.

Everyone offered so much, but CL-Bama really *hit the nail on the head* with her suggestion to document everything. This can and will benefit you not only while dealing with this agency, but in your future legal proceedings as well. While there are problems and issues with DSS/DHS/CPS (insert the one that applies in your area), they are a Federal Agency, bound by laws and guidelines, and you do have recourse....if that becomes necessary. This agency does NOT have the power to *remove a child* from ANY home, without going through procedures.....yes, that can get *messed up*, but there are guidelines, and NO child is removed without evidence and more being presented to a Judge (typically your county Chancery Court Judge or Family Court Judge-but can vary depending on your area), with testimony, evidence, and more being presented. Even IF they did remove your child(ren), you have legal options and recourse, though the number of children who are removed is rare compared to the overall cases, it does happen sometimes. Regardless, it is scary, and my heart truly goes out to you. Cooperating, seeking any and all help and letting them know you are open to this help is critical in your case. Please know that they are required by law to investigate, to inform you of your rights, along with possible repercussions, and they can and will possibly stay involved from 6-12 months-or longer depending on the circumstances, as a standard guideline, required by federal law, again. It is VERY scary, but, you are truly doing everything you should do, and more.

You're in the very initial stages in all of this, and yes, you may encounter some employees of these agencies who may not necessarily *handle the case(s)* as they should. I think more than that, right now, is raw fear, because you love your children so much, because you are in the situation you're in, and just the whole gamut of issues and emotions. If anybody understands, I assure you, I do, and everyone here does.

I had CPS/DHS/DSS involved in my life more than once over the past 5 years (Long story that the *longer term members* are familiar with-from problems with law enforcement here--they would not arrest my ex.......and more...to HIM getting DHS involved, whew! It was pure manipulation on his part, due to the people he "knows" here, but, due to guidelines and laws, DHS HAD to investigate, and they did. They also become my strongest ally in court and otherwise, once they saw the documentation I had), and I truly can relate to what you're going through. Please, learn all you can, continue seeking help and support, and know we're ALL here with you, every single step of the way!

Please:

Keep detailed documentation of everything

Seek help from your local shelter

Seek help from DSS/CPS/DHS-ask them what you can/should do, what they can do, and who they suggest can help you also. Stay calm-not angry, while dealing with them, so they know you are working *with them*. If you have a *renegade case worker*, please, ask to speak to a supervisor, but again, keep *your cool* and be clear, concise, and not consumed by anger/emotion.......

Cooperate with this agency, even if it seems absurd-yes I thought it was absurd that they could come into my home ANYtime, reason or not.....but it is part of all of this.

DO what they ask you to! Document it all!

Have your home open to them, anytime! (They even *watched* our house to verify/resolve claims my ex made, unknown to me-they came in and out, unannounced.......and more)

Again, I do understand your reaction, your situation, and your feelings regarding all of this. We ALL are here for you, through every step, ok?

Hugs!

Avatar for azmommy35
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-29-2003
Tue, 02-24-2004 - 3:43pm
I have read this whole thread but have been very quiet about responding to this post because, honestly, I didn't want to add any "fuel" to this fire. I must say that I am shocked to hear that it is *mandatory* for CPS to investigate when violence occurs when a child is present. I say shocked, because, they didn't do this in my case. And, in all honesty, if I knew it was mandatory (federal law <?> and that there was a chance I could lose my kids), I'm not sure I would have done what I did. I know you hate to hear this Miz...and I can feel the others cringing too. You know I have always been a very strong advocate for seeking help from local police and filing charges, but I really did not know the "whole" story about CPS. I wonder why they didn't investigate our house? My daughter was interviewed at the police station, and I told them the whole truth (about her being present)...and she, in her own words, told the officer what she witnessed. As you know, he was convicted criminally for this assault. I am counting my blessing over here for sure. Oddly, I'm glad I DIDN'T have this information before I left that day, but I think every women contemplating leaving should. ~~hugs friend.
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-22-2001
Tue, 02-24-2004 - 11:32pm
http://sswnt7.sowo.unc.edu/fcrp/Cspn/Cspn.htm

Clarityblue,

Wow, I am so sorry to read all of this. My heart hurts for you. I live in NJ and separated from my abuser in October of 2001. My 3 daughters were present at the time of my assault. My daughter Sarah jumped on my x and was screaming get off my mother. Child protective services and domestic violence have been linked in a very scary way. From what I read and see then and now these agency's are very aggressively involved. This is the final reason I never took x back because I was terrified they would remove my children.

I was told that its my choice to forgive and take x back/father of my daughters and that I could be with him but my children couldn't. They would be innocent victims of the violence in the home. My girls never left my house thank God.

Two women at the shelter I was going to for DV counseling did lose their children. It broke my heart to hear them share their stories too hear their sobs, to see them crying. Why did they lose their children and I didn't? I can only say this, one of the women was visiting the abuser behind bars, she was going to see him on visiting day. The other woman I'm not sure of, but she cried so hard. She did get the children back after a few weeks. Thank God.

I see this as a double slap to the victim. I see it as terrifying. Instead of heaping counceling and aid to the mothers in need they instill fear and insecurity at a most emotional time. I mean at that time I was so broke I ate the spoiled food my children wouldn't eat, nothing was thrown out ever. Did Child protective services help me feed the children.. no.

Clarityblue all I can say is speak your truth clearly and calmly. The courts sometimes view an emotional mother as unstable. I know you are not unstable and I am not saying you are. But the court system has no empathy. They see you, me, us crying or angry and they make decisions that are not always to our benefit. Remain as even keeled as you can when dealing with this agency. If you don't understand what they are asking you, ask them to repeat it. Say to them, I think you just said this am I understanding you correctly? Tell them you want to cooperate all you can and that the welfare of your children is the MOST IMPORTANT thing in your life.

Everyone else's suggestions are right on the money. I agree with them all. I know you are scared and angry and hurt and confused and rightly so. I was too. Take each day one step at a time. Take each moment and breath. This is a horrible time for you and the children, you are strong enough to do this one day at a time.

Make sure you sleep when you can, eat when you can, drink water your body mind and soul needs these things. This is part of domestic violence in 2004 in america. This is part of the reality, I don't like it. I will say it again I think it double hurts the victim. Domestic Violence is a crime, we the victem of the crime shouldn't be punished for it. Society is so lame and ignorant when it comes to this.

I listed the above link I hope it's helpful to you. Call your local shelter go to counseling there, that will help you in keeping the children with you. cooperate with child protective services, keep posting here.

You will get thru this, you and the children. you will

Hugs

Cathy




iVillage Member
Registered: 11-11-2003
Wed, 02-25-2004 - 12:57am

Hi, azmommy.

Peace and hugs,

Cheryl =)

The minute you settle for less than you

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-07-2003
Wed, 02-25-2004 - 2:35am
I understand your confusion too Azmommy. The difference is due to many factors, one being the time frame when you and I (along with so many others here) were going through this process, along with the major changes that have been made regarding laws, awareness, and more, with more and more changes and enforcement occuring on a daily basis. YES, many areas are "behind", but, not speaking out, not seeking help, not following the steps isn't the solution and certainly not the catalyst for "change". (I am not speaking of the abuser "changing", but the system, resources, etc)

In addition to this, there is not enough consitency and regulation with the laws, guidelines, and agencies, but that is improving, especially as we "speak out" and "advocate" for these issues. That HUGE proverbial "wall of silence" is still way too large, even though the strides that have been made even over the past couple of years are HUGE also. "One day, one step at a time" applies throughout this process-personally, legally, socially, and so forth.

CL-Bamagirl and Kanga touched on major points, along with many others in response to this post and issue, ...and while there are federal and state laws, guidelines, and more, again, depending on the area you are in, the individuals you are dealing with who work with the various agencies, their supervisors, legislators, law enforcement, law enforcement supervisors, and more, in addition to your personal circumstances, yes, you will see similarities and differences, and it is beyond confusing. The *system* is only as good as the people who enforce it, consistently, along with numerous other factors.

This again is why we have stressed over and over how critical it is to educate yourself about abuse, the laws, the guidelines, the resources, and more. (Please read this part of the post if you don't read any of the rest of it).

When I was "recognizing" just how damaging my personal situation was to me and my children, our circumstances were beyond comprehension, but, there were SO many factors that were involved, throughout the process, and we still continue to see that happen today, ....to the point that to say it is "disturbing" is an understatement.

I called the police when my children were *directly exposed* to the violence, begged them to arrest my husband, and more...only to have them do the exact opposite of everything I heard, learned, read, and understood that they were supposed to do, to the point the officers who responded had the "gall" to include in the police reports that "they explained the domestic violence laws to me" blah blah blah, while noting the injuries to myself and one of my children, noting that all my children witnessed this event and more, but they didn't arrest him. That put me and my children in even more danger, and truly caused even more concern for what we were dealing with. These officers tried to tell me that I was "endangering my children more by following through", that *I* "needed to calm down" and more. Yes, "Good Ole Boy Justice" at it's finest. Did I mention that the 5 officers who responded are and were his "hunting buddies"? That is a minor "fact" in it all, but was a major factor overall... I know many, many have faced similiar issues.

I knew I had to take further steps after that horrific night/weekend, and I began making plans, very quietly, scared for myself and more for my children than I ever had been in my life. I learned SO much along the way, and honestly, the system *failing* us that fateful night was *my catalyst*, and has continued to be. I have seen major changes here, where I live, but it was due to others, like myself, who were more scared of not seeking help, information, support and more, to break that "silence" to "expose" the problems, and yes, it created quite a bit of turmoil, but it was worth it, and it was what it took to make the changes we now see.

This is getting long, sorry, but I feel like I need to clarify why I said what I said.

DHS is the Child Services Agency here. They became involved in my life when my EX filed false anonymous reports against ME, AFTER I filed for divorce and had an Order of Protection in place against HIM. It was his retaliation for me saying "no more" to his abuse. This is common for many too, and further increases the confusion, chaos, and "fear of the system that is supposed to help".

This same issue has also *caused* these very agencies to have to re-evaluate how they handle these cases, and yes, the system doesn't "always work" as intended, or as we think it is supposed to, or as it is "supposed to". We all have legal recourse and options, however, and that is what I was trying to relay, without getting into the "10 mile long post" that I am doing anyway, whew. Those false reports my ex filed ended up only reinforcing my case, and also created quite a "stir" in court, due to the extensive documentation, the failure by law enforcement, the failure on DHS's part to follow through, and more (supported by DOCUMENTATION, thorough documentation)..... This happens both ways, and this is where we each can make a difference in our personal situations, as I was trying to express, along with everyone else who responded.

More disturbing for me, however, is to see someone so scared, so hurt, and so frustrated, sharing what is going on, but also sending a "message" to "not seek help" to *expose* the abuse, for assorted reasons, that in the end, only reinforces the abuser and perpetuates the abuse, and the cycle of abuse for ALL involved, especially the children, who have no "voice" or "choice" in this. I really hope some points weren't lost in this painful, emotional, highly charged discussion, that can get derailed on so many levels.

Azmommy, when you and I were in this situation, it was not that long ago, yet long ago in the overall picture with Domestic Abuse, awareness, and more. That is why we experienced certain things in our personal situations, and also didn't experience other things that we see our sisters dealing with now.

Yes, these agencies are being "called upon" to respond, to "follow through" and more. We hear of cases where DHS/CPS/DSS is involved and children die, due to being "left in harm's way", while a very rare amount are "removed to protect them from harm" in situations where the parent is seeking help, along with an equally "legitimate" number who are removed, to protect them from "further harm" where the parent is resistant, non cooperative, associating with the abuser, etc.... It takes ALL of us, working together, from posting and responding here, to learning all we can, to sharing what we can, to becoming advocates, and more.......

My "soapbox seems really huge right now", but this is coming from someone who has "been there", who truly understands, cares, and wants to help as many as possible, as I know everyone here does. We can and do make a difference, one day, one step at a time.

Clarity, sweetie, I am sorry if you felt "misunderstood". That was not my intent, or anyone else's. We really do understand, and we are trying to help.

Azmommy, I hope this clarifies some, even though I got wayyyyyyyyyy sidetracked. While Domestic Abuse cases should be handled "appropriately", unfortunately, *all* aren't, necessarily. I do feel, strongly, however, that the "message to not seek help, to stay quiet.....because of DHS/DSS/CPS" is a more harmful one, even though I understand the emotion and reasons behind it all. In your case, along with mine, I think it was more due to the "time" when we were experiencing what we did, along with so many other factors.

Love and HUGS!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-12-2003
Wed, 02-25-2004 - 9:38am
>>>More disturbing for me, however, is to see someone so scared, so hurt, and so frustrated, sharing what is going on, but also sending a "message" to "not seek help" to *expose* the abuse, for assorted reasons

mzlizzy, i thought long and hard before posting that message, because that is exactly how i DON'T want it to be read. there is a two part message i wanted to get across, and perhaps in my frustration i did not say it as well as i wanted to. my point was meant to be that A, if you continue to stay and expose your kids to dv, then cps can and should take your kids, because that is child abuse even if it's not directed at the kids. so if you are in a dv situation and your kids are witnessing it, you have to get out. but the other side is B, when you do get out, do you absolute best to avoid involving dss/cps, because even if you do all the right things, you cannot guarantee that your children will be safe. for me, in my situation, i could have gotten the same reaction/response from the police, the dv advocates, and the courts if i had never mentioned that my kids witnessed the assault, and i would have been much better off to leave that part out. i am able to protect myself and my kids just fine without cps's involvement, and i really wish i had known how things would have gone down before i acted.

i don't think anyone should stay in an abusive situation, and i think the consequences for someone staying would be even worse than what i'm going through, and i will say that again, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT ANYONE SHOULD STAY IN AN ABUSIVE SITUATION, no matter what the consequences with dss/cps. but i also think, given my experiences, that if at all possible you should get out in a way that does not involve dss/cps.

does that make any more sense?

clarity

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-12-2003
Wed, 02-25-2004 - 9:44am
>>Oddly, I'm glad I DIDN'T have this information before I left that day, but I think every women contemplating leaving should.

know the feeling, and i really did hesitate before posting it here, because i know that it may make some women afraid to leave. and that is not my intention at all. but i think it's better and safer to be thoroughly informed about things, even if the truth is not reasuring or comforting. the facts are the facts, and when you are working with the government you HAVE to keep your longterm best intrests in mind, because they sure as hell won't. again, i don't want anyone to stay because of what i've revealed, i just wand them to keep it in mind when they plan their escape. "this can happen, and it can be really scary", kwim?

clarity

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2003
Wed, 02-25-2004 - 9:57am
Hi Clarity, I just got your email from yesterday.