H's Mood is Flip-flopping.....
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| Thu, 12-14-2006 - 4:25pm |
Hi I mostly lurk but I have responded to a couple of postings. By way of introduction my H of 8yrs decided he wanted out not long ago and decided to leave two weeks ago. I talked him into staying for the holidays for the sake of the kids (girls 4&2) - but I now regret doing that. He flipped out last weekend and threw a solid hard wood coffee table and shred his shirt and fleece vest right off of his body (he is literally twice my size)to try and punctuate his point about how angry he is. In the past he has thrown a drink at me, spit on me, is always hostile towards me (I can never be right), and the list goes on.
Bottom line, I have come to the conclusion that separating would make me very happy. I want out. I am treading a fine line right now as his recent escalation in his behaviour scares me - I need to find a way to let him believe that he is the one in control and calling the shots about wanting out. Problem is - I am having a very difficult time hiding my calm and cool demeanor. I am no longer emotional as I have been in the past, I am just rolling with things. He now wants to put an effort in but I think it is far too little and far too late. I just want out - I cannot believe that I am happy about this. Even though I will have to majorly downgrade my lifestyle, I just think I will be so much happier. I think this will not be a difficult split for me because I am no longer emotionally involved.
In order to get through the holidays I am going to have to come up with a strategy to try and minimize his outbursts (he is very scarey!) and also make him believe that splitting is not my first choice. We have talked about splitting up in the last few days and the conversations went really well - he seemed to be relieved after talking about what we want for the kids etc. He works two jobs one is a steady paycheck and the other is commissioned real estate and he keeps commenting that it isn't worth his effort to do the real estate (he did really well this past year and I suspect he is trying to set me up to accept reduced child support - I have always been the major wage earner in our family up until this year for the first time - his real estate commissions have made a sig. difference). Anyway - if anyone has been there done that - particularly finding a way to make him believe he is calling the shots when you have an exit plan/target - I would love to hear from you.
Rose

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Hi Christine - Unfortunately I live in the country so I can run and hide or try and run to a neighbours but it will be tricky. I honestly believe that H is mortified at his own behaviour - while he has always been self absorbed etc., his raging outbursts are something new - there has been the odd indication over the years but nothing as overt.
He is a very intelligent person - he knows that kind of behaviour is inexcusable. I think he is trying to create some space and deal with his anger in other ways - at the gym etc. I don't know this for sure so I am on my guard. He is a hunter (or used to be anyway) so I have hidden all of the guns in the house - he hasn't touched them for a couple of years so I really don't think he will notice.
He has mentioned that when we split he would like me to purchase a home right away to settle the girls in and hopefully make the transition easier for them. I think that is likely a good plan, plus it would get me back into the city. I appreciate your concern, I really do.
You are right - making the decision to leave-- I know that is the right thing. It is the thought of making a life that has me so scared - and I know I am one of the lucky ones, I have a good job and good financial backing. But I am still worried about all of the other unknowns. I want us all to be happy - him too. Even though I won't be married to him I want him to be happy so the girls have two loving and well balanced parents (not happy at my expense though). He does not deserve to be put on a pedestal, but I do like to acknowledge the way he does business and makes decisions because in the long run I know it will help me deal with him through the divorce process. He is already into the 'what's mine is mine and what's yours is ours' song and dance. I have copied all of the necessary files (and then some!) a few weeks ago.
I feel confident because I know if he tries to screw me - I have the necessary evidence to get what I deserve. I will copy our bank balances today and I have been hiding my own pension info etc for a couple of months. I think I am ready for the next step. I have been trying to get a counsultation with a good lawyer (one that is recommended vs. found in the phone book) - that has not been easy but I think I finally have one.
He has started doing some work on our property to get it ready to list for sale so I think he is resolved that this is ending. I know he will try and get top dollar for it - that is not going to be easy in a declining market. Obviously though trying for the most $$$$ will benefit both of us.
Christine - thanks again - I love your notes they seem to strike a chord with me.
Rose
Going in -- or out -- with your eyes open is huge.
Rosie, something to note: Most abusers are extremely intelligent. Ignorance or stupidity isn't a factor in DV. They're also, usually, innately, unusually, diabolically clever.
Good move on the guns, BTW. Frankly, I'd pawn 'em. If he even notices or fusses, give him the ticket later.
Try to be as involved in the sale of the property as you can. (Is it in both your names?) Frequently, although I can see the inkling that you don't want to believe it of him, DHs will downplay the value of something, or exaggerate the admin costs to abscond with the cash-ola. I know, you don't want to believe that of him, but for your own protection, look at him with a very jaded, expect-the-worst eye.
Ironically, being divorced myself, I'd be giving the same advice to someone going through a "simple" divorce. When two people aren't working for their lives together, it becomes an adversarial relationship, whether it's intended or not. There's no such thing as a "good" divorce.
I kind of laughed at wanting him to be happy and wanting your kids to have two happy parents. Of course you do! However, you can't worry about him; he's made his bed and it's up to him to decide whether it's worth making changes. Remorseful or not -- they all are, BTW, when the victim is leaving. Mortified, even. They know the words to use. Leaving with the kids is the best way to provide them with a happy home. A safe haven and some place that has a little more reliability than the upheaval an abuser creates. Life is always drama in their home. Waiting for it, being blamed for it, trying to pick up in its aftermath. Ahh again, I go on.
In a nutshell, keep up the good work.
1) work for yourself and the benefit of the kids as though he had disappeared into thin air.
2) Do Not Trust. After all, he's already betrayed that trust and proved his reliable unreliability by this really awful behavior.
3) Get a lawyer who understands DV. Just like a counselor. You need a shark.
4) It's easier to give something back later, to ask forgiveness later, and to make concessions from a position of authority. YOU become a secret shark.
Doesn't mean you have to be man or abrasive or anything, you just need to keep an eye out for potential, metaphoric and possibly physical blood: yours and your kids'.
See what I mean, bean?
Really good call on the guns!
C.
Who also lives in the country, and who's neighbor ran 3 miles to her house in her nighty...
It's amazing what fear and adrenalin can do!
Hey Christine - I do know what you mean bean - points taken!
I know I can't really trust him. Bottom line he has asked me for some of his initial equity from his first home back. He is not entitled to it. I have let on I will give it to him as long as I am treated fairly - he has a little more at stake financially than I do in this process. As soon as he ticks me off - all bets are off and I will go for 50/50 split as I am entitled too.
The house is in both of our names so I don't think there is much he can do there. He also has a really great pension I can dig into if I want to be really mean. I too have a decent one but he won't want me to touch his so it is in his best interest to keep his paws to himself. I know with furniture etc. he will want all of the good quality stuff and leave me with the cheaper 'room fillers'. He has been divorced before and lucky for me he shared his strategy/thinking with me so I have a good idea of what to expect.
Bottom line - I am in this to get all I can for the good of my girls and he better not F with that.
He is very much a 'cash under the table' kind a guy so i will have to keep my eyes wide open. I have done a little snooping and sneaking to take a couple of copies of things in case he tries to pull the rug out from under me. I think I am fairly well prepared. Let me know if you can think of any more tips. I would liek to get the guns right out of the house but I don't think they will fit in my car! (long rifles!)
Thanks again,
Rose
Cash-under-the-table. Divorce Strategy.
They think they're so smart, don't they? Thank goodness, when they're feeling powerful, they brag.
If you can't get the guns out, consider just the ammo. Or better yet, load 'em with blanks. Wouldn't that shock the !!@# out of him, if he lost his mind and thought he was doing the worst? Imagine the charges you could press. Ok, I'm just getting carried away.
Hmmm.
It sounds like you're now in the waiting game, so something for the future:
I have some negeotiating points that might come in handy.
First, definately go for part of his pension because legally, you're entitled. I couldn't even change my 401K beneficiary without my divorce papers! You can use it as leverage.
Then. There will probably come a point where he doesn't want to do something that will have to do with child support, because he won't want "that b!tch" to get the money. The thing to suggest is an automatic payment account where fixed costs can be scheduled. For example, if he is supposed to cover medical expenses. Money goes in, the doctor's office or insurance company is automatically paid. If he's supposed to provide $XXX for school clothes or something, gift cards to the kids' stores can be purchased, rather than him handing over his "hard-earned cash." If you happen to have your kids in parochial or private school, that can be paid directly, rather than him having to give you money.
If he fusses, he'll have to deal with the courts, since this makes it perfectly clear where and how HIS money is being spent.
He's going to have to and it's going to KILL him to be told what to do. If he's really under-the-table and has the ability, he's going to probably start to ask to be paid in cash or barter. Particularly if he's in any type of service industry. If he's a contractor, you've got your work cut out for you! Don't be surprised if he starts fussing that you had an affair and the kids aren't his. A pretty common delay tactic.
Just a fun fact: Most people turned into the IRS for fraud or unreported income are disillusioned and p!SSED off exs. Just a thought....
Ok. Hang in there. Do you have a schedule for all this, or are you just hanging out until you get proper legal representation? Have you started looking for a place, either temporary or into which you can move directly? It's easier to put down payments or security deposits and 1st months while you're with him, if you can sneak out the money.
Just being nosey. :)
You are too much!!! I actually live in Canada so many of those things are a wee bit different here.
H is a firefighter (steady reliable income) and his second job (all FF here have a second job since they have so much time off!) is as a real estate agent.That is where the real money comes in. That is also where he can start negotiating with his clients and trade favours etc. for cash. he has been hinting that the income tax rate makes it hardly worth his while to earn very much -(HUH!!!!! he quadruples his FF salary so I know it is too tempting for him). He is very good at real estate so I can't see him bowing out. He is working a deal that may take a few months but if it comes through, the commission alone on it will be $250,000. It will kill him to hand any over to me. For the divorce we are hoping to use a mediator but I definitely plan on consulting a lawyer first. I finally got a referral to one (didn't want to use one from the phone book). I want to make sure all of my ducks are in a row and that I am well informed on all of my rights before I head into this.
I could go for part of his pension but they he will just go after part of mine and right now mine has a bit more money in it - that would be detrimental for me so Ihave to weight all of the options very carefully. The part that is the pits is that for seven out of our eight years married I have always earned more than him. I did that while I supported him in making a career change into firefighting from another unfulfilling one and then again while he studied for his real estate licence. I could get screwed so I have to be very cunning and savvy!
Grrrrr...
He does have a lot of money-hiding options, doesn't he?
At least you're aware!
Can they garnish wages in Canada? I would think so.
Well, even if you can't get his pension for you, go for it for the kids! Yup?
Your motto needs to incorporate, "For the kids. You don't want to deprive your children, do you?"
Great on the lawyer!
C.
Yup they can garnish his wages here and lots of people have recommended that route vs. asking him for cheques. That way - out of sight out of mind for him and it will likley help avoid a lot of extra tension. I know he won't like to optics of that - he is very careful about the image he portrays and he wouldn't want people to think he has been cheap or did not pay a bill or something of that nature.
He is very shrewd so I know he will try to find a way around paying me my fair share. Let the games begin!
I found your post so helpful since I'm heading to the lawyers myself. I have no access to family documents or acct info in H's name, he locks it up and I don't know the combination, or have copies to the locks. Guess I'm going with the past 2 tax returns. You're so right about them not being honest! He's lied about everything since I said I wanted a divorce and now bringing the kids into it! I didn't want to, but needed to be reminded that they can get desperate, and irratonaly so. Wish me luck!
H is smart! He's been playing me all along. I'm so grateful for the day I started to see him as nothing more than controlling and manipulative!
Carrie
PS I'm hoping I have a shot at him being removed from the house until I have a place
Excellent.
Forewarned is forearmed.
They are supernaturally clever, but since they THINK they are, they just can't resist showing how clever they are, and therefore their hand.
I'm glad you're off to a lawyer. A DV lawyer, I hope?
Do let him know about the locked stuff, about hiding funds, etc. If you have any vague idea of what and where he's investing or hiding his money, tell the lawyer. He an order (I can't spell subpoena) all his stuff, and if they find out ONCE that he's not revealed something, they'll be after him like flies on honey. Or something like that.
I'm trying to think about what you CAN get, in addition to the returns. Does he ever slip and let you know what credit cards he has? This stuff shows up on credit reports, which the lawyers will pull. Find out from his work HR if he has pensions, 401K, etc. You legally are the beneficiary and he CANNOT change that without your signature. SO, if he claims he did, or you did, .....
When do you see your lawyer?
C.
See lawyer today, it's driving him crazy! I told him who was watching DD and that he'd have to pick her up for pre-school. He actually asked me if I was going today, idiot, I was served and I have to for my lawyer to respond! He thought I'd back down, and he's losing it. H has said he's taking his retirement and paying off the van, I know darn well he can't do a thing with his investments or 401K without me signing. I remember cause I had to sign when he opened the investment accts and it ticked him off cause it was his money. What was I thinking through all of this? My Gosh, I actually put up with everything being HIS! He could've moved money from his savings acct before filing, don't know. No matter what, I'll have the freedom of not having to ask in the end, that's worth quite a bit to me. I'm so glad you keep mentioning the money and stuff, cause I probably would've backed down on a lot to get this over. I do deserve my share, I'll have to support the kids, I've been working hard for this family too.
Thanks a bunch C!
Carrie
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