I am in horrid quandy right now (m)

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-15-2004
I am in horrid quandy right now (m)
9
Mon, 08-30-2004 - 11:58pm
& i will warn you all right off - you will think i am NUTZ. I have thought about posting here so many times, & right now, i am just so TIRED of it all.

In an attempt to put this in as short a nutshell as i can - my H is VERY certainly emotionally & verbally abusive. & some would say phsyically, at least threatening-wise.

I have been married 6 years. I am a smart, educated, funny, popular, very very capable person. I am an RN & very well respected in my profession. I come from a pretty good family, upper middle class, went to private schools, worked hard, have 3 college degrees, was even a model way back when (lol, I am old now, 36) & i am very close to my family. I dated for many years, fun guys, rich guys, successful guys, smart & ambitious guys, anyone basically that i could have wanted ... & what did i do? I married, at age 30, an alcoholic (my Dad was one, but in recovery 20+ years) who had a GED, no freaking ambition, always waiting for that better offer, has NEVER pulled his weight, or even close to it, financially. His family is totally dysfunctional, his Dad & all brothers verbally abusive, his mom & Dad & most sibs Alcoholic - they are NOT close. My h is very jealous of my relationships w/ my family & constantly puts down how we are all "tied to apron stings" or "Weird, the way you guys are so close". Alls we are is a loving, NORMAL family!

He drank periodically over the years & there have been some really bad incidents - from accidents, finding him passed out in the front yard or elsewhere, some threatening gestures when drunk (finger in my face, threats w. his hands on, but not squeezing my throat - that he would "love to snap my fing neck", w/ our 2 yr old at the time, in the next room) - he normally was a happy stupid drunk, but a few tiems a year it got scary. Also, there was some on -line women stuff years ago, nothing in the past few years. I think he figured out THAT wasnt acceptable (duh). So, we had a daughter 4.5 years ago. He is & always was a wonderful Dad. VERY involved (of course, he is always either unemployed or laid off & the past few years works 20-28 hours a week tops ... there were about 2 years when he worked FULL time, thats it - thank God i make the $ i do - so he CAN be an involved Dad, b/c he doesnt work much!)

He has always been emotionally/verbally abusive. I do NOTHING right. I dont shut the door right, i dont put the dishes away right, i dont give him the exact answer he wanted (PERFECT example: Yesterday he asked me "Have you seen my sunglasses anywhere today?" - i said "Last i saw them was Sat ...." Cuts me off "I SAID< have you seen them TODAY". (i am stubborn, btw, lol) I said "I WAS saying, if you would wait a minute & LISTEN to the answer to what you asked me, that i ..." Cuts me off again. "YES or NO, HAVE you seen them TODAY???" Crap like that is almost an everyday occurance. & it ends up i eitehr just walk away, OR, it turns into me being called something lovely liek a "fat pig" or WAY worse that i cant type here. Its his IMMEDIETE defense to call me names. Bad ones. AND often in front of our dd. He cannot modulate his anger. Its like whatever he wants to say, just flies out of his mouth. He also constantly calls me a liar. He is CONVINCED i am a liar. Why? B/c as he is badgering for an answer, he has my head swimming so fast to find the "right" one, not the right *answer* per say, but the right way to SAY it so he GETS it ... that i may stammer & he will say "See??? Your such an Fing LIAR. Cant you EVER just answer my ? or tell the freaking TRUTH????"

So, last year, after the hands on my throat incident, i gave him an ABSOLUTE ultimatum. I left w/ our dd, stayed away 3 days w/ no contrat- he was a MESS not knowing where we were. I saw the top divorce atty in the state & then w/ the help of my Dad, made him leave the house. A few days later (not long enough!) he came back & agreed to go to alcohol treatemnt for the 1st time ever. (btw, he has a hx of Depression & is TOTALLY much easier to deal w/ & more normal on meds, he is SO angry & bitter & IRRITABLE off them, i cannot live w/ him w/o him on meds ... but he still isnt easy to live with competlely, thats for sure). So ... he hasnt drank now in almost a year. & suprise suprise, things arent perfect. But he KNOWS< & I KNOW, i will NOT live with him drinking. I will file for a legal seperation immedietly if things get to that point again.


Here is where you will think i am nutz. ALthough he screams & yells at me in FRONT of our dd often, he NEVER acts this way towards her. I work eves, he has her at least 50% of the time & they are very close. He is patient, loving, kind & adores her. He truly is a good Dad if you leave out that he is verbally abusive to her mother! (liek thats not a HUGE thing, i know it is). Everyone in town is amazed at what a great Dad he is. BUT .... i swore years ago (actually, when she was 5 weeks old, he continued to party after her Baptism, i sat at home at 2am, sobbing w. her in my arms, promising her that i would NEVER let him hurt her) that if his attitude started to affect her, i was done. & it has. She has said things like "Daddy! Stop yelling at mommy! She is yoru WIFE! If youre not nice, youre going to have to find a new wife & daighter!" or "Daddy, why do you hate your wife?" or "Why did God make Mommys & Daddys fight so much?" It just breaks my heart. & i knwo it obviously hurts him too. He tries to make it up to her, but he cant. I know it is becoming ingrained in her, little by little.

Ok, so on the good side - he will & does go to joint & individual therapy. When on his meds, he is almost ok to live with. The good does outweigh the bad when things are ok. HE tries. & he loves us. The marriage therapist told me that he is WAY more in love w/ me than i am w/ him. My response? Well, how COULD i be in love with someone who treats me like crap??? But it has been WAY better w/o the alcohol - I admit, its never wine & roses ... but for weeks we can go w/ nice eves together, family things to do, etc. Oh, we dont really have sex. gee, THATS a signal, ha? His Antidepresants just kill his sex drive completely, we can go for months & months w/o sex - althoguht we are quite affectionate when things are good. & the no sex is fine w/ me at this point, i am not really attracted to him anymore. Anywya - as i said, he can go for a good couple weeks w/ being nice - But then there is always SOMEthing that sets him off. & HONESTLY, it is NEVER anything liek he reacts. I mean, a flat tire to HIM? He reacts like *I* would react if our house burnt down, our dd was in an accident AND we lost our jobs. EVERYthing is WAY bigger & worse than it really is, to him. & everything is against HIM. I DONT want my dd growing up thinking "what will set Daddy off on a yelling streak now?". I assume as she gets older & less a "cute baby", it may turn towards her - & that scares me -but if it continues, we wont BE here w/ him. Anyway, he does try. He seems lately, to be listening to what the therpaist says about how damaging this is to our child. For me, i am capable of choosing this for me, if i feel i can take the bad (maybe 30% of the time) w/ the good *70% of the time) - where as when he was drinking, it was the opposite. But SHE cant choose. *I*, as the "sane" parent, must choose for her.

So again, sorry so long!, here is the CRAZY part - i am trying to have another baby. Sit down. Stop yelling! lol I KNOW its nutz. Here is my theory - my reason - whatever. MY EXCUSE even. & beleive me, i have thought about this for more than a year. I have weighed the options & reasons & i haev AT LENGTH, discussed this w/ not only 2 (yes, TWO! lol) therapists, but good freinds who know us both. I am almost 37. I want one more child SO badly. I want my child to have a sibling more than anything. I just lost my precious mom this past Jan 04, she was only 60, & if i didnt have my brother to go thru that with, i couldnt have coped. For ME, i KNOW i will always regret not having that other child. I am SO capable of caring for 2 kids as a single parent. I have a great income. A great home. & a great support system. I wouldnt do it if i didnt think i could, & do it well. He wants another as well. Always has ... but we didnt b/c i refused while he was activelly drinking (see? I have SOME common sense!) So, now that i am ready, he is on a med that he must be on for a year, that is a chemo med, & i CANNOT get pg w/ his sperm while on that med. So we froze his sperm. Things have been pretty calm & sane abuse-wise for the past few months, w/ just a few verbal incidents, & we are heavily into therapy, so i figured this was my "window". He is sober & semi-normal. So, i got inseminated the past 3 months, & this month was my last try via insemination, & it failed. I got my period today. So, if i still want to get pg, i have to now get into in-vitro. I am sure most of you know that is no easy thing to go thru. But i want this baby SO badly. I truly dont think i will ever forgive him if i never have that 2nd baby, b/c i COULD have, if he wasnt so screwed up all these years. & now that i finally feel i want to, its very difficult. I feel as if he STOLE my dreams.

So, now i am 2nd guessing myself. I am a BIG beleiver in fate, & even though the doc gave me only a 6-8% chance of getting pg w/ insemination (as oppossed to a 35% chance w/ in vitro), i feel like maybe God is sending me a signal ... it didnt work, you tried, dont screw up your life anymore. Stop. Be happy w/ the beautiful dd you DO have. Which is true. I KNOW this is selfish. I admit it. But it IS also for my dd. She wasnt a sibling so badly. & i know what a wonderful bond that is to have w/ soemone ... i cant imagine my life w/o my brother. I want that for her. for me. & yes, for dh too, IF he could straighten up & stay that way. But if he cant ... then i can do it alone.

Its so true, if we ended up divorced, which i am sad to say that in a couple of years, i woudnt be surpised if we were (i would be the one divorcing him, he would never do it ... why would he? He has the life of Riley here!) (& btw, when we were deciding to do the insemination, i told him right out "i am not sure i will still be in this marriage in a few years, if things dont seriously turn around. If it were up to ME, i would still get pg, but i am leaving the option up to you". He wholeheartedly wanted to have a baby. I told him i completley do not expect a baby to "fix" anything ... he agreed) - if i did end up a single parent, my dd would be shcool age & it would be so easy. I KNOW throwing another baby into the mix is complicating things BIG time - & if i were even 5 years younger, i wouldnt. But i am so afraid that if i do, by the time i do decide to leave him, i will be almost 40 & i will never have this chance to have the family *I* want.

I sort of look at it like this: Why should HE rob ME of MY dreams of a family? B/c of HIS problems? I can provide a very stable loving single parent home if i need to ... & i am not giong into this blind. or am I????

I TRULY apologize this is so long - what set me off was i was lying in bed worrying about in vitro & if i should go on w/ it. We have gotten along really well the past 2 weeks since the marriage therapist read him the riot act about his behavior. & he was badgering me about something stupid & i was bitchy (b/c he was being an *ss) & he ended up calling me a "fat b*tch". Nice, ha? & the reason i WAS 2nd geussing stuff today was b/c i had a long converstion w/ my Dad today. When my Mom died, i inherited a bit of money & JUST to be careful, i met w/ the divorce atty i saw last year, making sure what i was diong wiht it was legal in keeping it OUT of marital property, & it was thankfully. If we ever get divorced, the money is NOT part of our marriage & he cant touch it. So my Dad was carefully questioning me on if i was happy, what did i see long term here (he is aware of the drinking issues, & my WHOLE fmaily i am sure, would be thrilled ot see me go on my way w/o him ...) My Dad was saying that he worries that i am settling, that my H is a fantastic father & he would never take that away from him, but he isnt the provider or the partner i deserve & that there more the life than maybe what i am living. & i deserve so much more, & then he adds in, (since i have gained SIXTY # in the 6 yrs we have been married), that "it seems to be taking its toll on you, & that worries me". Yikes. Nothing liek people being honest w/ you! But my Dad & I are close & i know i could go to him w/ all of this. I am sure people SEE the abuseiveness, even if not all of it. & i imagine my family hates to think i am in this situation, & i cant IMAGINE what they would say if i was pg again!

Ok, so, now that your eyeballs are falling out of your heads,, go ahead, hit me ... hwo crazy am I???

Thanks, A~

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 08-31-2004 - 7:30am
My four year old will also tell his dad to leave me alone, to be nice and call him bad dada. FWIW, you are not crazy, confused but not crazy. You love him, you love that his is a good father but you have to listen to your head not your heart. What will make your daughter's life better? What would happen to a new baby brought into the mixed? I am great at giving the advice but I am horrible at taking it. it is hard to let go and move on when something is so fundamentally wrong.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-30-2004
Tue, 08-31-2004 - 2:22pm
I don't think you are crazy, either. I'm not good at giving advice, but I just wanted to share that in my reading of abusers, and how they tick, I have learned that individual therapy, unless it is from a domestic abuse specialist, can be harmful rather than helpful. The therapy can actually give the abuser more reasons to feel focused on himself and give him even more excuses to justify his actions. Just my thoughts... I wish you the best.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-30-2003
Tue, 08-31-2004 - 3:17pm
Hello:

ok...I am not good at giving advice either but I do have a couple of opinions on your situation.....I applaud the fact that you want to have another child and add to your family. However, if you are still living with your H, that atmosphere doesnt seem much like a family. And how he is treating you....No, I would suggest you do not have add another baby to the household. If you were living on your own, with your child and future child that would work. But, I just dont see how you could live with this man and want to continue a future when you are also considering divorce. Please think hard about it. I would suggest going through with the divorce before thinking about another child. Just think of it as putting it off,...not never...just not in this situation. I am sorry you have to go through all of this. I am in process of divorce, nearly, and my h asked if I wanted another child. Believe me, I am 28 and I want three more children, but not with this man. Your life, once youre happier, will be just beginning for you...regardless of age. You are not crazy...in fact, you have done your homework it seems by contacting the proper people about possible divorce. You deserve better...and I can tell that just from your one post. :)

strength76

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-21-2004
Tue, 08-31-2004 - 4:46pm
Hmm. A few thoughts, in no particular order.

Your H and mine sound fairly similar, aside from the alcohol issues. No ambition. No sense of responsibility. No patience with anyone trying to push them in that arena.

Regarding your DD. My H too was "good with the kids." We have 3, ages 10, 8 and 4. We met when my oldest was 1yo and his connection with him was one reason I ended up marrying my H. And everyone, my family included, has always praised my H for being"willing" to stay home with our kids when they are little so I could "pursue my career." Of course what they didn't note was the fact that the real reason he stayed home wasn't because we decided that was best for the family. He just refused to work, and as a result, despite my college education, we have been dirt poor for years.

Anyway, he was very good with the kids until they got to the age where they had a mind of their own. He cannot tolerate any kind of backtalk or rebellion or lack of compliance on their part. So, my 10 yo has suffered because he is older. Verbal abuse and some physical. My 10yo now has some serious anger issues. I hope once H and I separate, I can create a peaceful home life that will heal some of that. I guess what I am saying is that it's too early to tell whether your H will treat your DD the same way he treats you. My guess is that when she moves beyond the "I adore daddy" stage, he will.

Regarding another baby. I read your statement about promising your infant daughter that you wouldn't let daddy hurt her and it took me back. I spent both of my pregnancies under immense stress and apologized more than once to each of my unborn DD's for bringing them in to such an awful situation. And the second pregnancy was way worse than the first. You would be better off going through a pregnancy alone than going through it with an abusive partner. My youngest DD has some behavior and learning problems, and I can't help but wonder if all the stress I went through during my pregnancy with her didn't contribute to that. Also, I would guess that the chances of having problems like postpartum depression are much higher when you are living in such a situation. Imagine having to deal with a new baby and abuse while your psyche is already misfiring. I did it. It was BAD!

I hope that you are able to search within and get enough input from your family to find the answers you seek. Take care of yourself.

MG

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-15-2004
Tue, 08-31-2004 - 6:07pm
Thank you all so much for not jumping on me or being judgemental. I should know better - these iVboards are THE most wonderful thing, well, the people ON them are! ;)

I havent made any major decisions yet, but one i did make today was that i wont put myself thru the stress (& expense) of IVF right now. It will throw me over the edge! I will likely still continue w/ the IUI (inseminations) which only have a 6-8% chance of working - but i just cant totally give up on the dream of another child yet. Man, i wish i were 10 years younger!

Thanks, you all gave me a lot to think about. I will try to stick around here if i can, as well.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 05-18-2004
Tue, 08-31-2004 - 10:20pm

Hi, Sisternurse, and welcome.

Mama Harmony

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-24-2004
Wed, 09-01-2004 - 11:56pm
I was in almost your exact identical situation. I am an RN, my family unlike yours is totally dysfunctional and abusive, I was married 8 years, my husband worked only 2 years out of eight and blamed it on my that he couldn't hold a job and I believed it for a while. He drank a lot to the point of passing out regularly, staying out very late, sometimes I'd find him the next day passed out in his car in winter, or in the garage. He was verbally and physically abusive. I can relate to being harassed for not having the right answer or the perfect answer. But they set up those situations as traps for us. I had in vitro, knowing in the back of my mind that I was probably leaving. I wasn't sure if I'd ever find an appropriate man to remarry or even if I had any desire to remarry, I was 29 , had one child, and desperately wanted another. I got pregnant on my first try with invitro, have one year old twins-boy and a girl, I left him when they were eight months. The best part is I have 9 frozen embryos, they are all mine according to the contract we signed before they were even created, I want another baby. If I'm not remarried by 35-37, I'm definitely going for it. The biological clock has stopped for me, because those embryos are already here, and I don't have to worry about finding a man because those embroys again are already here. I can say that in my situation invitro was the best thing I ever did.My older daughter is so happy to have a brother and a sister, she's 10 and she's so good with them, she's a big help, and she's very protective of the twins. She was wanting a sibling for a long time. In school, she was in the minority as almost all her classmates had siblings, and it really got her down that she didn't. As RN's we make good money, we are very much in demand, our jobs are as secure as you can get, we have flexible hours. Of course the downside is we work very hard and holidays,etc.I notice a lot of RN's are in bad relationships, I don't know why. You said you felt like your life is good 70% of the time, well mine was 90 good/10 bad at the beginning and detiriorated to 50/50 at the end. But it doesn't matter, because whether you are consciously aware of it or not, always on the lookout and dreading the next incident is no way to live. Like almost all abusive people they can be good when they want to, but who they are will most certainly never change, so you will have to deal with the abuse and the chaos at some point, and nobody deserves that. My oldest is now exhibiting some problems that I think she was holding in when we were together, she is very fearful of everything, she worries to excess, she had crying outbursts over trivial things , like if she's on her playstation and the game isn't going well, she will cry and I know a 10 year old should be past that. It does affect your daughter, if she's holding it all in now, it will come out at some point, and you do teach her to seek an abusive man the longer you stay. My oldest is in individual counseling and also in a children's group counseling at a domestic violence women's shelter.(We just go for the counseling part not the shelter part.) I have only read your post not the responses, but I'm sure they will tell you not to have a baby with him, but don't be offended if I say this, by the time you are healed from your experience with this marriage and ready for a relationship, it may too late biologically to have a baby. An excellent book is the author is Dr. Richard Marr, the complete guide to infertility, not sure the exact title but positive on the author. Another excellent book is The ART of IVF by DR. Sher. A 42 year old woman has only a 5% success rate for cycle of IVF using her own eggs, a 30 year old woman using her own eggs has a 60% chance of success for cycle of IVF. So crazy as it sounds it makes perfect sense, go for the IVF.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-24-2004
Thu, 09-02-2004 - 12:19am
Forget to mention the counseling. General therapists are trained in dealing with situations where there is two people trying to work together, to work towards something. They interpret every situation through that mindset. Abusers don't want to work together towards a mutual goal, they only want to work on getting their way, being in control at all time through any means necessary. We were in counseling for about two months, and it did no good, I wasn't educated about abuse then I just knew something was wrong, the counseler was making suggestions like my actions could control his abusiveness. Then at the end when I was sure I was leaving, I don't know why but I went to counseling with him twice. He found the counselor, he went by himself the first time, then I went. This counselor was totally uneducated about abuse. The first time he went he made no mention of the abuse, the second time I told the counselor, and she came at it like what could we do as a couple to stop the abuse. I told her flat out, I know how to stop the abuse real quick, I'm getting the hell out. And I also told her, if I'm the cause of the abuse as he claims, the answer is real simple isn't it? Let him get another woman, then he won't be abusive and everyone will be happy. That's when I think something in her training came to her mind, because at that point she said to him that any abuse was totally unacceptable. But my point is if I hadn't been educated on abuse, she would have kept on with the first suggestions, that is working as a couple to stop the abuse, and I would have kept going for counseling, working on it and kept getting abused. It's basically because I spoke up that she changed her advice. I think we can relate this back to the RN thing, dependin on what area you work in you're good at it, but if you had to work in an area that you hadn't did since nursing school, could you be good on day one? No, same with counselors they are good in their area of familiarity, they can't be experts at everything they learned in school any more than us.Also forgot to mention , don't know if you're paying for the fertility treatments out of pocket but if you are, IUI is a waste of money, you can find IVF programs that do what is called shared risk, basically you pay more for one cycle, but the benefit to you is if you don't get a live birth after all your fresh and frozen cycles are finished, you get a percentage of your money back, in my case due to I was 29 it was 100%, at your age I think it would be about 75%, different programs do different pricing. If you have insurance that pays for fertility treatments, then of course it wouldn't matter.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-15-2004
Thu, 09-02-2004 - 9:23am
Thanks for ALL your info. I have a ton to respond to, but i have to run now. I may not be back around till Fri - but will certainly respond. Thanks for taking the time! A~

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