I flinched....am confused (very long)...
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| Tue, 04-06-2004 - 9:56am |
First I want to ask you.....do you believe in "signs" or just mere coincidences? Think about it.....then read this and tell me what you honestly think:
As you know, I've filed for divorce...have become more settled with the idea, though there are many unknowns, its scary, but I have been facing my fears head on.
Also you know that my h has been playing up the begging, crying, pleading role like crazy. I haven't flinched--and keep coming back with "you've had 7 YEARS to prove to me otherwise"...blah, blah, blah.
In the past week, he has not asked me to stop proceedings, only to say that he is so sorry for ever treating me the way he has and hopes that someday I find it in my heart to forgive him for his mistreatment of me. He's been to psychiatrist, a psychologist and another type of counselor trying to find the "right" one. I gave him the name of a man that has worked with abusive men and said this is the ONLY one I would accept---he said "ok".
In addition, I don't know if I ever mentioned to you that I stopped going to Church in Sept. 2001, the Sunday before 9/11. Partly because, at the time, I really felt my prayers where going unanswered--despite all that I was trying to do "right" (according to the Church/religion)...partly because a priest was talking about marriage--and how sometimes we need to "carry our cross" with problems in it. I thought "what the F&*^ does a PRIEST know about marriage" and he said other stuff that I found offensive, though I can't remember specifics. Anyway, I stopped going and I stopped praying. Then I started delving into other spiritual practices, including Buddhism and Hinduism. I kind of gave up on the God idea for a while...still kinda do, don't know where I stand on all that these days. I believe in some things, not all things.
Anyway.....so Thursday evening, I find myself still kind of lost and confused about all this. Wondering which direction to go into. For the first time in years, I found myself praying, well, more like talking, to God...and kind of saying "Look, I'm lost and I really have no clue which direction to go in....I wish you would send me SOME kind of sign to point me in the right direction". Of course, I went to bed and thought nothing of it....cried myself to sleep as usual (pms'ing, too).
Friday evening, I was reading the local newspaper....something I rarely do these days. In the local section, a small article catches my eye, about a law firm downtown that caught fire and sustained over $225,000 damage to it, causing the office to temporarily close
MY ATTORNEY OFFICE!
Sign or coincidence?
Besides REALLY freaking me out....it has me curious. I called my best friend and met her out at 11 pm that night, with another friend of ours. I asked them...they both said "whoa, that's weird" and felt it was a sign. At 2 am... my best friend and I drove to the office and we sat in the lot next to it. The upper floors were GUTTED and burned out, the lower floors did not seem so bad and my atty is on the lower floor. My best friend, who has seen the best and worst of my h, and is more than supportive of me (in any direction I go in really)....said that this would cause her pause to consider, but she doesn't know what, if anything, that means.
Yesterday, before a job interview, I called my attorney's office (which is being forwarded to another place) and said to put it on "hold" for 2 weeks while I try to clear my mind. I had my job interview, Federal government position....great job, I had a GREAT interview, the money and benefits are there--I met all the people in the office (since its a small office) and they loved me (and told me so!)....the downfall, LOTS of travel. Like on average, 1 week a month, sometimes more. I have to wait about 2 weeks to see if I get a second interview.
My husband's response? This is a great opportunity for you, the money is there, its right up your alley, and it will give you the space that you need from me. (My h, btw, knows NOTHING about the fire and my 2 week pause.)
There is no way I could do this job as a single mommy, its such a wonderful foot in the door to the Federal system, which I have less then a year to get into before I'm blocked because of age restrictions.
I just read the post "How to know if he's changing"...I haven't read it in a while. He's doing all the things that indicate change.....BUT I don't know if I buy it. Change can only be measured by consistency over time (C=c/t? LMAO). The question now is....do I buy it and is it worth waiting to find out?
I layed everything out to my h yesterday....I told him that I no longer have any feelings for him, that I'm totally numb to him. I told him that he single handedly crushed my spirit and for that, there can be NO forgiveness for. I told him that when I was in pain or angry, I NEVER did the things to him that he did to me. I told him that I no longer know if I can stay with him because of all of this---that may not EVER be able to recover or heal in his presence. I told him IF I decided to wait, he would have to accept that I intend to keep my lawyer on retainer, INDEFINITELY.
My h is no longer blaming, accusing, or getting angry. He "appears" to be accepting. He accepts my anger and does not try to deny it nor gloss over it, in fact, says I have every right to be angry with him. He says that he never thought in a million years that I would file for divorce, esp. not having a job, and that has been the wake up call of a lifetime. He said he saw everything that he was losing (his wife and family). He is not asking for marriage counseling. He said he is looking to find out why he acts the way he does and wants to stop being mean and controlling...and he does not understand why he has done this.
I told him that I have been in DV counseling for some time...and he just hung his head. He didn't say "I've never abused you" or try to deny my reality....he just said, "I'm so sorry I've done this to you". He said, Please continue going---tell me when your appointments are, and I will make sure I am home for them, so you can get there, on time and not try to hide this and figure it out on your own.
Master manipulator or sincere repentant? Only time will tell. I told him, point blank, that I don't believe anything he says anymore....that only his actions will indicate to me what he is. I told him to hold NO expectations of me, that I can't give to this marriage...not now, not for a LONG time, IF there is any time left, that I have to search myself.
And I think, well, I can stay....and find a job (maybe this gov't job will work out!) and give it some time. He knows I have my lawyer and that he is on retainer and I will not hesitate to proceed.
Honestly, ladies (and guys!), I do not know what to think.
Please be gentle with your responses...I'm very, very raw right now.
dharma

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Can't believe I just wrote a post and lost it!
Anyway, only you know what you need to do. About the attorney's office, that is just an incident, nothing more. As far as the job goes, many career women make it happen and you can too if you want!
The biggest thing that bothers me is the statement "I told him that I no longer have any feelings for him, that I'm totally numb to him. I told him that he single handedly crushed my spirit and for that, there can be NO forgiveness for." How much is your spirit worth? He's already been to 3 specialists and none of them are right for him. Wendell used to do the same thing, back down and repent because "he couldn't live without me."
It is all up to you girl and we support you no matter what decision you make right now.
Terry
"I no longer have any feelings for him, that I'm totally numb to him. I told him that he single handedly crushed my spirit and for that, there can be NO forgiveness for. I told him that when I was in pain or angry, I NEVER did the things to him that he did to me. I told him that I no longer know if I can stay with him because of all of this---that may not EVER be able to recover or heal in his presence."
Regardless of how repentant he appears right now, does that make everything OK?
CL-Blueliner4
I'll just put my two cents worth in. . .
Your H could be one of the 1%, who knows. However, there is a 99% chance that he is just acting this way now to get you back. I would bet if you dropped the divorce and said you were going to give it a shot he'd be back to his own ways in 2 weeks. I'm just going from my own past experience.
As far as signs, I don't believe your attorney's office being damaged was a sign from God. That should actually have no affect on your divorce at all. A sign from God would him being part of the 1%.
These are just my opinions. Of course, I'm trying to get out of 27 years of being 'yo-yo'd' around with promises, back-stabbing, promises, back-stabbing.
Of course, you say you don't have feelings for him anymore. That's not exactly fair to you or anybody to stay in a marriage where the love has been killed. You're just asking for things to get worse.
Hugs,
Jackie
Well, for me, a sign would have been your attorney's office burning, not just the top couple of floors!
dharma, numb towards him? no feelings for him? Don't you deserve better than that? Yes, darlin' you do. (so does he, but we won't go there.) Even if he were in the 1% who change, would you trust it? Wouldn't you always be looking for him to slide back? I know I would be.
I believe, like me, and like him, we are all scared. Scared of the change that will come about. The unknown is a scary place. I "watched" you a few weeks ago on line, gathering all that information for one of the other poster on chat, I was amazed at how much you were able to find in such a quick amount of time.
As I sit here and type my support to you, my head is sying to myself - 'if you can support her, you should be able to do this yourself.' Meaning - if I can dish it out, I should be able to do it also! Who am I to support you in doing something like this? But, you know what is right. If you could be away from him, completely, just cold turkey, no contact for a couple weeks - how do you think you would feel? I know that if I could wake up in a different place, not have to face the goodbyes to him, that I would be totally ecstatic. My mountain is letting him know, facing him after I leave or however you want to say it. YOU are facing that mountain. YOU are on the down side of the climb. No, I'm sure it won't be easy, but you have to, YOU HAVE to think about YOU. Your feelings, or lack of feelings for him is HUGE. Listen to what you are saying. Even go back and re-read your post. I agree, I look for signs all the time, I don't find any to stay, but I'm not finding any to leave either. So, I'm in limbo - not a good place to be for very long, certainly wears on you!
dharma - hang on tightly, figure a way to get away from him with no contact if possible. I don't have any advice in regards to the job - but that shouldn't be an issue in what you do with your marriage. I think it is a lot to try to deal with right now. Bottom line - if you take the job and stay in your marriage because you can't do the job and be a single mom, how will you feel in a year from now? 6 months from now? Or, 5 years from now? I think the answer to that question may help you make some decisions.
I'm thinking of you, I'm doing my own "praying" for you and I watching you as you progress down this path.
Take care of yourself, dharma, ain't no one else going to! (well, maybe us here on the board!)
Hugs to you,
Pam
First of all gentle hugs to you. I understand how confused you are right now(one of the reasons I still havent filed for divorce yet). I think what is most important is what YOU want. Deep down in your heart without all of your fears of taking on being a single mom and considering that you said that you have no feelings at all for your husband anymore....what do you really want? I seem to remember you saying that you had given him another chance years and years ago...that it was good for about a year but then he went back to his old ways or even got worse than he was before. What is different about this time?
I understand the fear. I understand the doubt. Our husbands have spent years working on us and making us doubt ourselves...that we have had the strength to get to this point is amazing. I know you are an amazing lady. You are strong. All of the posters here believe that...I can feel it in their words. You have such courage and strength to face all that you have.
I really dont know what to tell you other than to search your heart and find the answer that YOU want. Not what he wants or your kids want or what anyone else wants. I will support you no matter what you decide. Huge hugs to you lady.
Take care of yourself.
Ree(who thinks maybe she should take her own advice ;o) )
I just can't seem to find the strength to go through with this? I don't have a job...the really good job interview is just too much traveling....and I'm just don't know if I can do it financially, more or less, emotionally.
Gosh, I feel like I'm on the verge of a breakdown......
dharma
If they can't see the heartache they are causing by keeping you, then they are abusive. A healthy person just doesn't do that. You've heard the saying - if you love someone, set them free, if they come back to you they are yours, if not they never were. It's a trust thing. I remember saying that to my dh when we were first going out, and boy did it make him mad. He didn't agree with it at all. HIS insecurities.
Ok, enough - I believe it sounds like it is your fear of the quality of your life away from him. Dharma - you are an intellegent woman. You may not have a job now, and you may not be able to take the job you talked about, but there is something out there for you. Something that will be right for you. I have the same fear, the quality of my life and my childrens lives. I don't want them to have to switch schools, I don't want them to do without. Housing here is extremely expensive and hard to find. My oldest daughter took a year to find a place. She was on so many waiting lists. Some how, when the time is right, all the pieces will fall into place. I believe in that.
Don't beat yourself up if you can't follow through now. Congratulate yourself on coming this far. Put it on hold, see what happens. Remember to watch his actions, not listen to his words. Time will tell you if he is really changing. Think about how you would feel if you were away from him but still comfortable in your finaincial/material world. Would you miss him? Do you honestly believe he can change?
Huge hugs to you, take it slowly dharma, I've been "thinking" about this for almost 2 years now - if you take an extra few weeks, or months, it isn't unusual. You'll do what you need to do when you can.
Pam
Thank you for your words. I just feel like I'm all over the road these days with my emotions...and its hard to catch my breath. With him still in the house, I just feel so overwhelmed and sad. He "appears" to be trying, but I had a very good friend last night tell me "Honey, he's just switching his tactics....we were prepared for the anger or denial--no one was prepared for the 'repentant' h but he is still doing what is typical of abusers". I guess there must still be a small amount of hope that things will change otherwise I wouldn't be questioning his actions.
I also think that having sustained the marriage for 15 years, I've learned to work REALLY well in denial and not so well in REALITY. There are times when I think that denial was "easier" to live in....but I also know that I was rarely happy inside and NEVER happy with the state of my marriage. So, maybe reality is better...but right now, it just sucks. More and more I see how I actually avoided dealing with reality, because if I did, I could not have handled what was happening to me---my emotional psyche would have compeletely shut down and I probably would have ended up in a psych ward. And all that probably stems from growing up in an abusive home and probably learned to live in denial from the time I was a kid.
I just wish I could feel normal again....or maybe even for the first time. Its just so scary to think that everything is going to change....we'll have to sell the house, I have NO idea where me and the 4 kids will live--the thought of having the kids adjust to apartment living just sends chills down my spine (lol), how will I keep it together---working and be a single mommy, etc, etc.
This is all just so draining.
dharma
Everyone has said everything so well, I do hope you listen to what is being said. We all wish our lives could have been different, we all wish that we lived with that abuser who was the 1%er. Well it wasn't and they weren't.
When we bring our faith into this mess we ask our God, no matter which name you choose to give, to give us signs, then when it happens we ask for a different sign. Someone here once said that our God gives us the strength but we have to do the footwork, no truer words were ever said. You have to do the footwork in this, you have to make the hard decision, you have to be responsible for your own "sign" that it's time to move on. Trust me when I say that when you do become responsible and you do act and you do change and you do give your children a better life free from abuse, you will know how deeply your answers and prayers were heard and answered. It's just there is no easy way to do this, it is hard work but the rewards are beyond expression.
Just something that you said in your post, you said you cringed at the thought of your children in an apartment. No one is saying you have to live under a bridge,,,find a nice apartment. In fact in the apartment complex I lived in for 11 years most single mothers there worked together with other single moms and retired people and daycare became an in-complex saviour to all of them. There are many apartments, there are many complexes to look in, do not think of this as a belittling but maybe a great adventure to your freedom.
Yes it is a change and adjustment to living in a nice house, but also who says you have to stay there for the rest of your life??
On your path to freedom for you and your children dharma,,open your mind as well as your heart and see the good in what you are doing instead of the misery of saying how you were bound to make this marriage work. Take the load off your soul by not trying to take the blame for this, it is not yours to carry. You did not decieve him into abusing you, you did not ask to be abused. If you spend too much time pondering the past, you have little time to plan your future.
Happiness and freedom is yours! The walls that hold you safe may not be in a finely groomed neighborhood. The time you spend with your children in freedom are far more effective than those spent in the confusion of abuse. Yes it is a scarey thought to walk forth into this new life as you are so comfortable in what you know, but if you are looking for signs look into what all these wonderful people are telling you.
To grow is to live, it's when we stop growing we loose. Like others have said, only you can make this decision, only you know what you can or cannot live with. If where you are will only kill your spirit then why do you really want to stay? That within itself should show you that someone is trying to tell you something.
Gentle hugs dharma,,maybe a mommy timeout to regain yourself might help? Go have your nails done, get a pedicure, take a small break to regenerate yourself. You've been denying yourself for a while now because this all is bringing you down and wearing you out.
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