This is for Lucas & Sandman...

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-29-2004
This is for Lucas & Sandman...
30
Mon, 02-14-2005 - 11:24am

You guys are amazing!!! It is incredible that you both realize what domestic violence and abuse is and that it is not a gender issue! Thank you for your input in the past, present and the future!!!

I have one question though...How can we make the law aware that domestic abuse is as big of a problem as the violence is? I know that my STBX was violent at times, but the emotional, verbal, financial and psychological abuse hurt me more than the physical!!!!!!! The physical part heals and goes away but I will always bear those scars inside from the mental abuse, and wonder if I will ever be capable of having a healthy relationship again? Is it possible? To talk to me now, the answer would have to be NO (probably, because I am not emotionally healthy)!!! I don't trust anyone and am always suspicious of anyone who makes "promises". "Promises" they can't keep. See what I mean?

You're guys, so please give us women some feedback on this!! Thanks again for all you stand for!!!

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iVillage Member
Registered: 02-08-2005
Mon, 02-14-2005 - 12:54pm
You are absolutely right.
5yrssm 
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-13-2003
Mon, 02-14-2005 - 4:49pm

Buffphone gave me the best advice once when I explained to him I can't trust anyone anymore. Not even my family or friends. He said I needed to learn to "trust myself" first. So simple, yet true! I guess as we go through this process we start to change in a healthy way and heal. Once the healing takes place, maybe we will be able to trust again. I can only hope!! Just my opinion---Hugs!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-15-2004
Mon, 02-14-2005 - 10:28pm

I tend to find it suspicious when a person is exceptionally liberal with promises. In my observation, a lot of failed marriages began with people of great passion, but little patience. And having gone through an experience where you faithfully believed in someone's promise, it will take a patient person to build your trust. But then, the very first part of the definition of love is that it is patient.

Some people are more affected by abusive personalities than others. Either that, or some people are simply more honest about how it affects them. My sister married a guy who has demonstrated a number of violent outbursts for us all to see. No one does anything, but all of us have commented at one time or another how uncomfortable he makes us feel. My brother and I both know that we could pretty easily subdue him if a fight broke out, but it's not necessarily the physical threat that affects someone. And this is where the "knows no gender" part comes in. It makes no difference that I have a strong male body to defend myself, because his tone, attitude, arrogance, and methodic wearing down could whittle me down on the inside the same as if I were in the body of a little girl. I've had him snap at me and I just want to pick him up by the lapels and say "who are you to take my dignity from me?" But his acidic personality rapidly decays anyone's confidence. He is a master at breaking people down.

I think to a degree, men are taught to crave power. It should be something long lost to the dark ages, but even in the social structure of men, it is commonplace to demean women. In their teens, boys do things that they wouldn't tell their mothers, and into marriage, they do things they wouldn't tell their wives. And in both cases, they often congratulate each other on it. That's not to say that all men are like that, but I've been present for many lockerroom antics similar to that.

That being said, I often wonder how different the genders really are, and how much is learned. Personally, I think it's important to always look at another person's perspective, to empathize. I was once rude to a girl about six years ago in college in the tone I used. I didn't mean it to come out the way it did, but it still sticks in my mind that I may have made her feel bad. About a month ago, someone was rude to me at a store, and I called and complained to his manager. To me, rudeness and all-out cruelty only exist because as a collective people we allow it. If I ever have children, I hope to raise them to realize that anger, manipulation, and cruelty actually prevent you from getting what you want.

I found this site while researching what to do about my sister's husband. What he does is real, how it makes me feel is real, and I can already see his kids echoing his behavior. My sister angrily defends him, and she denies the signs I've seen over the years. What bothers me most of all is that they are raising yet another generation of abusers. I have not seen solid evidence of physical abuse, but I wholeheartedly agree that the psychological damage is far more severe. Even as an outsider, I've felt that part. My sister had a black eye that she sometimes denies, and sometimes insists it came from her husband accidentally hitting her during a nightmare. Okay, how can that be anything but suspicious?

You know what it is? I feel helpless. I've seen the fist-hole in their wall, I've seen him yell and swear at the kids. And any attempt I've made to intervene has left me isolated by my own family. Even though as a family we've discussed the necessity of some kind of intervention, when we (my brother and I) took the issue to my sister's attention, she accused us of poisoning her husband, causing his liver problems because we "hate him so much." It makes me feel like I need to extend a hand to others. If I can help someone who willingly admits the problem and seeks help, and receives it, I think my life will be more fulfilling. I feel ashamed for having waited as long as I did to say something. I was in high school when I met him, and I noticed it, but as the youngest brother, there was no way I could summon the courage to speak out about it.

The sad thing is, my sister used to date a great dance instructor. An amazingly supportive and friendly guy who wasn't extremely popular or rich, but I wish I had him as a brother. But with the way things have turned out, I guess my wish is to turn this awful situation into somethign that drives mem to extend that supportive hand to someone else.

Sorry for the long diatribe, but I hope that sheds some light on where I'm coming from, and maybe what my "mission" is.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2005
Tue, 02-15-2005 - 5:23am

<>

I agree...people want to believe patriachy has long since been forgotten, but it still exists and is still going strong. I find it interesting how people are placed in boxes, and labelled how they 'should' behave based on their gender. It often goes without questioning...who says we should behave a certain way and why should we?! It is hard to be systematically sceptical, but itis necessary.

Like you, my sister was in an abusive relationship for 3 years. The feeling of helplessness is unbearable, especially as an outsider looking in, we might able to see the pattern of control manifesting in a way the survivior cannot, or does not. Afterall, she is liekly to be fed the "I love you", "I'm sorry it won't happen again" lines in the interim...and the "you wouldn't cope without me" etc etc...

You said he's a master at breaking people down, mayeb that's a strong indicator that he is abusing your sister too.

If you're concerned about the safety of the children, do you feel able to report your cause for concern? that say, your sister would be offered support/ intervention at the same time.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-13-2003
Tue, 02-15-2005 - 12:17pm
With all due respect, walk a mile in your sister's shoes, then I'd like to see if your reply is the same!
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-12-2001
Tue, 02-15-2005 - 5:00pm

Well, this has been an interesting day for me. I started on my computer at 5:00 this morning and am still here at 2:50. I started with this Board years ago and now spend time at New Beginnings, but have spent this whole day here.
Lucas, you remind me of my 29 year old son. I have read your messages and I just knew and always have known that there are such wonderful men out there as you. Your are a breath of fresh air to me as is my son and other good men in my immediate family. Take care and thanks,

Luv, Sherry

Avatar for sandman2write
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 02-15-2005 - 11:51pm

Thank you gehring1960

How can we make the law aware that domestic abuse is as big of a problem as the violence is?

I was told one time by a prosecuting attorney, that their hands are tied because a victim
calls the police, their abuser is put in jail and when they try to prosecute they defend their abuser I have also been told by a police officer that a lot of times when he responds to a DV call The victims will sometimes get angry with him for arresting the abuser and some (victims) have even been violent with him.
I assume form this that with out the support for the majority of victims it would be hard to get law enforcement to respond appropriately. SO IMO it is we the people that are in denial and not the law, after all they do work for us.

I have also been in group DV counseling and watched victims (when the counselor is not present)Complain of how badly their Abusers have been treated and if they would of known calling the Police was going to ruin their lives like this they would not have called. One woman was beaten So badly her noes,, jaw, ribs were broken and she was in the hospital for along time. She was so angry with .the system for trying to protect her and her children, it is so tremendously shockingthe denial and missed placed anger of some victims I have seen. I think this also plays a big part in why the law can not appropriately deal with DV issues, and with out physical evidence, and the victim’s testimony emotional abuse I think is as frustrating to the law as it is to us This is not to mention the people who use the law to hurt or get back at someone by saying that they have been abused when the really have not
DV IMO is one of the biggest if not the biggest, confusing tragedies society has to face today Because it does touch every one of us in one way or another

Randy

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-15-2004
Wed, 02-16-2005 - 12:00am

"With all due respect, walk a mile in your sister's shoes, then I'd like to see if your reply is the same!"

Does a quarter-mile count?

For two years, I was in a great relationship with a terrific girl. It was like something out of a romance novel. I felt great about myself when I was with her, she turned me from a shy, nerdy guy with a long history of rejection into someone worthy of loving. I came to depend on her to define my self. Back then, I wasn't "Lucas the Angel," I was "Lucas, the other half of her." I basked in it, I loved it. And frankly, I've never been happier than when I was with her.

She had a long history of boyfriends. Many of them violent, especially in the years leading up to our relationship. She also came from a family that argued a lot, and she learned their habits. I remember one time in particular, I was trying to be supportive of her when she said she was planning on memorizing Bible verses. I told her she could actually teach groups of people and be able to recite verses as they read along, which would be a really great ability to have. Well, it turns out that she wanted to memorize verses specifically from the Bible her mother gave her, which is not the common NIV version that most people have, so they wouldn't really be able to read along. My suggestion of other people being able to read along sent her into a fury. She took it as an insult to her mother, called me an a**hole and stormed out. I tried clarifying on the phone later and she shouted a few other names and hung up on me.

I cried. And it was common for me to do that. Prior to our relationship, I hardly cried unless it was a really sappy movie or something. That day, I really realized that I wasn't "getting in touch with my feminine side," I was just feeling hurt a lot. And it wasn't exactly that I felt weak or something, I felt like I had been careless and risked throwing away the happiness I had with her. But the absurdity of this instance showed me something. You see, I had been particularly cautious. She had just come back from Florida after spending spring break there. I had prepared a welcome back candlelight dinner for her, and she showed no appreciation. She just ate and said "Let's go, we have a meeting." So, while I was sulking and pondering what it all meant that she hung up on me, the phone rang. It was her again angrily asking "So why didn't you call me back!"

A few days later, I was talking with a mutual friend of ours. She said "You know, I've known you almost a year longer than her. Sometimes it makes me so mad the way she treats you." She had hinted at that before, and I just acknowledged her comments back then and little else. But the point is that someone else had not only noticed it, but they noticed it a long time ago. It took another year of yo-yo moodiness and our relationship being on the rocks for it to finally come to an end. I started spending time talking about it with a different mutual friend of ours (actually a childhood friend of hers) and my girlfriend accused me of cheating. She began spreading rumors that I was sleeping with her friend, and she would sit in the bushes and in the parking lot when I would drop by our friends' dorm. She called it an affair, but she admitted that she only ever saw us talking (because there was nothing else we did but talk). She would go through my emails, looking through my desk and files for some kind of "clues." Pretty soon, she had male friends threatening me.

The day I graduated, I told her it was over. As I walked from her car to my apartment, it was the hardest thing I ever did. I closed the door and peeked out the window saying "Please, God, make her drive away before I run out there and beg her to come back." It was just awful, but I felt that I had to do it, as much as I didn't want to. Leaving her was unbearable, and about five years later now I still feel the sting. But in hindsight, it was ultimately my will to live that broke me free from her guilt trips and manipulation. I'm as lonely as can be sometimes, and still even cry out of loneliness.

That's how I made it only a quarter-mile in those shoes. I reached a point where I saw how a simple thing, what should have been a good day, turned into a severe blow to my self-image. And that had become her random routine. I had become her doormat. And our friends who had the courage to lend a helping hand helped me admit that. I've lost touch with all of them (except one called me about a month ago, after all these years). My ex-girlfriend got engaged to another guy six months later, and married a year later. She cheated on him another year after that. Now they are expecting their first child. I've emailed her a few times and she usually gets offended when I say I still haven't felt comfortable dating yet. Then she sends some angry emails which I have learned are best not to respond to.

So I hope to do for my sister what my friends did for me. I'm not sure exactly how much they helped me, but their support was much needed.

I am well aware that it's usually men that have those dominating personalities, and my ex-girlfriend is not my motivation for wanting to help people. But it does kind of hurt my feelings when there is the assumption that I can't relate because of my gender.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2005
Wed, 02-16-2005 - 12:53pm

It's not only the perceived fear of not being being believed or taken seriously that victims fear, it's very real for many of us. We assume the law enforcement agencies and other 'professionals' have a great degree of knowledge and understanding of domestic abuse, and that they will treat victims with empathy and understanding- That is often not the case.

We live in a society that colludes with the abuser, how does *that* help a victim? why would any victim come forward and report an incident of domestic violence with that very real fear. Apologies for knowing very little about the situation in US, but are all police officers required to have specialist training in domestic violence- some or all? If so, what level of training muct they have? Is it a 'pass/fail' course or simply acknowledgement of 'attendance.'

<>

If you acknowledge this (above), why do you make this statement:

<>

Don't assume everyone's experiences of 'the system' are positive and helpful. They're not. One interviewee in research we've conducted had a rape trial ongoing; her and her children under 16. The jury found her ex partner not guilty of raping her or either of her children. Is her anger misplaced? I'd say it isn't. Having to cope with the abuse she suffered, the abuse of her children, the trail, and an 11 month gap between the case even reaching court- what's she meant to do in the interim...get on with her 'normal' life? And it's often forgotten that victims have to deal with abuse for months & years after the relationship and / or the abuse have ended.

<< This is not to mention the people who use the law to hurt or get back at someone by saying that they have been abused when the really have not>>

While I acknowledge false allegations do exist, I often hear these kind of comments, and th first question I want to ask is... how do you define a false allegation? Afterall, a very small %age actually reach court, let alone secure a conviction. Are we to class these as false allegations because the offender has not been convicted?

<>

Why?...because the women who have been abused have little faith in the services that they feel very often let down by? Maybe we should also consider that services are not geared to provide adequate and appropriate support and / or intervention to women and their children were abuse is present.




Edited 2/16/2005 1:04 pm ET ET by alice_the_camel
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2005
Wed, 02-16-2005 - 1:01pm
Edited because I assume I'm not allowed to ask that question.


Edited 2/16/2005 1:52 pm ET ET by alice_the_camel

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