This is for Lucas & Sandman...
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| Mon, 02-14-2005 - 11:24am |
You guys are amazing!!! It is incredible that you both realize what domestic violence and abuse is and that it is not a gender issue! Thank you for your input in the past, present and the future!!!
I have one question though...How can we make the law aware that domestic abuse is as big of a problem as the violence is? I know that my STBX was violent at times, but the emotional, verbal, financial and psychological abuse hurt me more than the physical!!!!!!! The physical part heals and goes away but I will always bear those scars inside from the mental abuse, and wonder if I will ever be capable of having a healthy relationship again? Is it possible? To talk to me now, the answer would have to be NO (probably, because I am not emotionally healthy)!!! I don't trust anyone and am always suspicious of anyone who makes "promises". "Promises" they can't keep. See what I mean?
You're guys, so please give us women some feedback on this!! Thanks again for all you stand for!!!

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Ok lucas, i will ask if the offer's still there:
you described being able to break free of her ontrol and manipulation, yet I have a question here:
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Why email her, and why did you feel the need to tell her you aren't ready for another relationship yet? I'd be very angry too if an ex were trying to contact when I didn't want contact, and furthermore if he were trying to make me feel guilty for how his life is going.
LUCAS: <>
ALICE: "Why email her, and why did you feel the need to tell her you aren't ready for another relationship yet? I'd be very angry too if an ex were trying to contact when I didn't want contact, and furthermore if he were trying to make me feel guilty for how his life is going."
Well, I should have been more clear in my wording. I should have said, "I have communicated with her by email." With the context I used it sounds like I make a habit of emailing her out of the blue. The truth is, she emails me when she wants favors, then a discussion usually breaks out, sometimes getting ugly. Sometimes it's that she wants help learning computer programs, or she wants me to help her find a job since she got fired again, or the last time she wanted me to send her a song that would be appropriate for a friend's recent tragedy. She never emails me to see how I'm doing, or to just say "hi." She becomes a friend when she is in need (I've been told this by others, too).
It just was easier for me to type "I've emailed her a few times..."
So, to summarize the pattern of our discussions, she emails me asking for a favor, I usually help out, she says thanks, then she says "how are you doing, what's new, are you seeing anyone, etc.?" I give her a basic answer. The problem mostly arises when she asks about any possible relationships. I say "Well, frankly, I'm still a little uncomfortable with it" or something to that effect. Then she gets defensive, saying that I'm blaming her for my problems. Honestly though, I don't see singlehood/singleness? as a problem. It's the old adage that two people must become independent before that can become interdependent. In lieu of her dating history, she must realize on some level that she subscribes to the notion that a person is defined by a relationship. She started dating in 1988 (in 5th grade) and always had a boyfriend since then. She told me once that she was single for six consecutive months once. So, to her, my 5+ years of solitude is outside of the fathomable realm. So basically, she gets on my case about how distraught I must be for shaking her out of my happy tree.
Patience was never a strong point for her. She actually told me (during the dark years of our relationship) that she thought there was something psychologically wrong with me because I didn't get angry enough. She accused me of bottling anger and feared that I might explode with rage one day. I'm just not a violent person is all, but since she couldn't wrap her mind around that concept, she applied her own explanation. She has told me, though, that she is quite relieved that there is an appropriate level of yelling in her marriage. Ain't that cute?
Sorry for the lengthy reply, but I did want to clarify that I don't wander into that fire on my own accord. But I will admit that once she starts getting riled, I may rattle her cage a little. I guess, the way I see it anger is one's own greatest enemy. When we get into a volley of emails, one of us is chuckling at the absurdity and the other is ready to sling feces like a fuming babboon.
Hi there, I have been semi-following this thread, but haven't had the chance to actually read through it until this morning. I usually post on the New Beginnings board and have posted here from time to time. I am a social worker and work with high/multiple needs families in rural areas. I don't work for Child Protective Services, but at times have to work closely with them on shared families.
This is my perspecitive from 8 years of doing what I do and personal experience of being in an abusive relationship for 5 years.
This is in regards to "the system" and how it responds to DV. I went to a meeting this week that was a discussion of how to respond to DV in this community. There were lots of agencies represented there. Our Chief of Police spoke and talked about how they are aware of the need for change in law enforcement agencies as far as responding to DV. One thing he said that was so interesting to me was that the officers are working on something. I am trying to figure out how to word it. He said when officers arrive at a scene, that it is very easy to create a situation in which the "victim" goes from being the "victim" to actually "sticking up" or allying with the "abuser". So the officers have been going through training to work on how to handle situations without causing this dynamic. One poster mentioned discussion in a dv group about how terribly the law enforcement treated their abuser. The idea here is that officers want to gather information and make good decisions in the situation without making the "victim" sympathize with the "abuser".
I don't know if that makes sense, if there are questions I am happy to try to clarify.
I know that gehring posted a story which is one of the horror stories of the backwards ways that dv is handled. We all know of those stories. I have seen some pretty ridiculous stuff in my work as far as the courts/mediators/law enforcement response to dv. I do have to say, however, that changes are happening, not fast enough, but they are happening. My experience when I lived in Fresno was that the police dept had a DV advocate/liaison to work with me and help me deal with the police and child abduction unit so that I wouldn't have to tell my daughter's dad where I was with her. My experience with the courts was wonderful, with the mediators was awesome. They take DV very seriously there.
Here in my county, our mediators, quite frankly don't know a dang thing about DV and I get very frustrated with them at times. So, what I have done is participate in our Domestic Violence Prevention Coordinating Council. They have reps from various agencies, the DA's office, sometimes people from the police academy. They talk about what is being done and what they would like to see done in order to deal with DV more effectively. I go and tell the stories of the moms I have worked with that have not had a good experience in the courts and with law enforcement. I have told them of my positive experience in Fresno and what it was that made it positive. That is what I do to try to help our local situation.
The other thing I wanted to mention was regarding a post and I can't think of who it was that posted it. It was where the sister is with an abusive husband. How do you help? What I would suggest is that if you try to get her to understand the dynamic at this point, it just makes her side with her husband and stick up for him. In my work, what I do in this situation is talk about it from the children's perspecitive. "Wow, if it is scary when he yells at you, curses at you, I wonder what it is like from the kids perspective?" Stuff like that. It sounds like any attempt at helping this situation causes discord within the family. You might try speaking to the principal at the childrens' school or even just making an anonymous report to CPS. The other thing is that research is showing more and more the profound negative effects that DV is having on kids and Child Protective Services and Law Enforcement is starting to look at it differently. So, a hypothetical situation, the husband is the abuser, the wife is getting hit, the kids see it. If the wife, "victim" refuses services from Child Protective Services and sides with dad, she can be charged with failure to protect. Is this okay? My personal opinion is that somebody has to protect those kids. Dad can't do it, he doesn't have control of his anger and a host of other issues. Mom is struggling with an impossible situation, but she is the key. Child Protective Services will remove children when there is a history of DV and services are refused. I have seen it happen.
Okay, I will now get off my soap box. I know this was long and for those who read it, thanks. This is my opinion and just some of my thoughts. None of my opinions are meant to offend anyone and I hope they aren't taken that way.
Anyone can get involved and make a difference in their community with regards to DV. Find out when different committees meet, go to those meetings. Speak your mind.
Issabug - thank you so much for your post...I am so relieved that people do see how backwards the system sometimes works and makes the "victim" the abuser...it totally baffles me how I got arrested and "tagged" as an abuser. I have a big mouth and say what is on my mind, but I have in no way abused my stbx or my children. To hear him tell the story, he would say that he has been the most generous (kept all money in his own checking account and made me ask for money), the most understanding, patient and loving man there ever was! WRONG!!! I was lonely when he was gone and I was lonely when he was home. If he wasn't on the computer all the time, he was glued to the TV. I always compared our marriage to a totem pole.
He would make promises to me and consistantly break them, he would lie about everything under the sun, he would drive like a maniac when he was angry at me, he would wait until I would go to sleep at night and then go to the bars. When I found out and would ask him why he did that, I would get the "because I felt like it" line. As I've stated in another post, he would lie to cover up lies, to cover up more lies until he would convince himself that he never said that to begin with. He has stolen merchandise from his bosses (he is a self-employed subcontractor in construction), and has stored this stuff at our house. I would tell him to take it back and he would just laugh at me. I would try to talk to him about one of the kids (skipping school), and he would laugh and walk away from me. He would punch me in the face because he didn't like what I said or I wouldn't shut up when he told me to. He never took responsibility for any of his children from his previous marriages, and still doesn't. They live with him but his answer to the problems is give them money and they will be out of his hair. Yeah, right! Give your son money so he can go buy pot and booze with it. In my state, this is called contributing to the delinquency of a minor (his son is 16, and was busted at 15 for possession). Isn't that a form of child abuse?
The one thing that has haunted me to this day is, that he swore if he ever had the money, he would hire someone to KILL his 3rd wife. I'll even bet that's what he is saying about me. Do I think he will do it? YEP!!! Especially if the courts overturn my conviction and he is not given sole custody of our dd.
You say that the mother is key to protecting the family. You are sooooooo right! But how do you get the judge to see that allowing the abuser unrestricted access to the children is detrimental to their mental health. I don't want to keep our dd away from him. I just want him to get some help before she is damaged by his "way of life"! His 3 older children are as abusive as he is and I can imagine why. Does this make sense? So now I'm faced with the fear that our dd will be "just like him", and the courts will make that possible! Nothing I can do there to protect my dd, so my hands are tied!
Will the training be available to all police officers, or just 'the chosen few' within one area/ across each area?
<< Dad can't do it, he doesn't have control of his anger and a host of other issues.>>
In the hypothetical situation though, would dad actually be losing control of his anger?
Well, I am not sure which police officers will be getting any training. This was our Chief of Police in our small Northern California Community talking. I imagine it is up to the individual cities and counties to decide how they will respond.
As far as the hypothetical situation, I do think that part of DV is a response to feelings of loss of control, a loss of ability to manage emotions. That is way simplifying DV, I know. I don't think it is that way in every situation. My point was that the "abuser" is in no way fit to provide the love and affection and safety that children need and that unfortunately when the "victim" stays, or defends the actions of the "abuser", she can be charged with failure to protect her children. It just makes me sad that the situation is as it is. But, regardless, as parents we have a responsibility to make sure our children are safe and feel safe.
I would like to see standard police procedure for DV consist of isolating the two parties and getting an audio recording of each their stories of what happened. This would minimize the time available to fabricate a story, it would likely help calm nerves just being away from each other, it would create a permanent and detailed record of the specifics of the incident for future reference, it would be a great resource for finding inconsistencies from one story to another, and it would eliminate the immediate fear and pity the victim often feels for the abuser. Now, I'm not sure what standard procedure is, but to my knowledge, it's basically the officer's assessment as to whether or not someone needs to be taken to the station, and the officer leaves usually feeling that everyone is calm, then the incident goes on record.
I remember during deer hunting season here in Wisconsin, you may have heard about this story, there was a guy hunting on land without permission. Upon being asked to leave, tempers flared, and he gunned down several people. Much of the media and even the community tried to turn it into a racial thing (and for all we know, racism likely may have served to provoke the killer). But what stands out to me is that there had been several DV calls to his home in years prior to the incident. The police report showed that he had threatened to kill his wife at least once. In an interview with his brother, he was basically described as a nice guy who never had a temper, but the police reports obviously say otherwise. Not only did this guy ultimately ruin several families, but has caused a huge racial division across a couple of states. What bothers me is that comment by his brother. The warning signs were there, but they were ignored or not taken seriously. Honestly, if my sister's husband were to kill a bunch of people in a fit of rage, I wouldn't be surprised. Heck, I get nervous when he is near a sharp object and calm. I visited this weekend, and all was fine but anytime I saw him showing signs of frustration with his kids throwing a tantrum, I got this feeling of "Oh no, it's happening."
Obviously, the gunman in the story I mentioned will be convicted regardless of his past or even his motives. You don't just open fire at people (several of which were unarmed) and get anything less than spending your golden years in prison. But I wonder how many things like this could be prevented in the future. In this case, the wife also declined to press charges during the DV calls. Does that legally make her an accomplice? (That question is rhetorical, just food for thought).
How is that possible that he was even able to have a gun? Once you've been tagged as an abuser, your second right ammendment is null and void. How awful that someone didn't put a stop to him sooner!
I agree with you on the audio taping though. Not only will the inconsistencies become evident but it will more than likely end the BS that the police are put through. They should never be allowed to assess any situation soully on what he said/she said nor be in judgement of the abuser or victim. That is what a court of law is for.
Thanks again! You are right on!!!!
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