My sister

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-31-2006
My sister
14
Sat, 02-26-2005 - 9:02am

I just moved

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iVillage Member
Registered: 05-18-2004
In reply to: legs22
Sat, 02-26-2005 - 9:51am

Dreamer, I'm very glad you decided to post here.

Mama Harmony

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-29-2004
In reply to: legs22
Sat, 02-26-2005 - 10:01am

You are right...this is not normal! Your sister's husband has "trained" her to believe that she doesn't have a mind of her own...she has been "brainwashed" in believing that what he wants, he gets! Classic signs of abuse! Maybe not physical, but certainly emotionally and psychologically. You have every right to be concerned, but tread lightly with your sister. She is at a very fragile state and in need of understanding, not judgement. She will not listen to reason until SHE is ready to.

She IS your closest friend and needs you to be hers right now. Try to understand that she is trying to "keep the peace" per say...and is doing the best that she can. She'll wisen up when the time is right!!!

Do I know what you mean about the inside of the house. My stbx and his daughter decided that we needed a "new" floor. They decided (without me) that wood would be the best. I like wood floors, but not in the living room! I wanted a much more warming affect when people walk into the house, but instead there is an "echo...echo...echo". Not to mention the fact that none of them like plants. What better way than to make a house a home than plants? They clean the air and make the house a home...

As far as the outside...your sister is lucky that her husband wants the outside to look beautiful...mine wouldn't even cut the grass most of the time and when he did, he cut down all my rose bushes and any flowers that I may have planted. I love flowers on the outside of a house as again, it makes it feel and look, warm and inviting...don't you think?

Sweetie, you're feeling all the frustration that your sister is feeling...love her, comfort her and trust her. DO NOT intervene, as she will do that on her own when she is ready. Be her friend, be her sister and just listen...

HUGS!!!!

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-31-2006
In reply to: legs22
Sat, 02-26-2005 - 2:47pm

Hi,


Thanks for your replies and listening to me vent.


I definitely don't call her weak to her face. And I don't believe there is any physical abuse. It seems to be a control thing. I don't think she realizes there is anything wrong with how things are. It drives me nuts because I wouldn't put up with that crap. It seems to me that she does just keep the peace. She does things because it's what he likes and wants. I want her to see that what she thinks and wants matters too. She would never leave him and it's not that I want her to. I just want her to speak up. She finally admitted to me that she hates the town she lives in. They have property in another town they were going to build on but he's decided to stay where they are and add on because he can't afford to build this geogeous new house. Instead of graduallly moving up in houses, he wants to go from a dump to

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-08-2005
In reply to: legs22
Sat, 02-26-2005 - 9:12pm

It's like a lightbulb went off in my head and I wonder why I didn't notice this before. He is ex-military too but does still do the reserves. Are military guys more likely to be like this?

5yrssm 
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2003
In reply to: legs22
Sun, 02-27-2005 - 2:42am

While I don't know actual numbers, there does seem to be an increased incidence to behavior that trends to abuse with both the military and the law enforcement professions.

CL-Blueliner4

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-31-2006
In reply to: legs22
Sun, 02-27-2005 - 10:10am

I did hear somewhere about law enforcement having a high percentage of abusers that's why I wondered about the military.


My sister does not complain about her situation. I don't think she has any idea that something is wrong. How do you help someone that doesn't think there is a problem?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: legs22
Sun, 02-27-2005 - 10:21am

Hi imadreamer...I remember you very well. I was a cl on this board when you were here in 2003. I recall that your bf was very extreme in his manipulation of you and how confused and afraid you were at the time. Oh boy, were you confused and afraid. I remember how your head was spinning, how exhausted you were, how you had a hard time thinking clearly. I remember the "strike 1, strike 1, 3 strikes and your out", and the points "that's 5 points you're up to now", I remember how terrorized you felt over those games. I remember how you were watching what you did and said because you knew there was going to be a bad reaction but just didn't know exactly what it would be. I remember what a horrible day your birthday was for you because of that stunt he pulled with the e-mail. It was so clear to us what he was doing to you, but it was not so clear to you. Your story stood out to me because we all thought in addition to being so extreme in his manipulation of you we all thought he was a little nuts on top of it. Your ex-bf was extreme in his manipulations and it was obvious to us what he was doing to you and it was obvious to us that you were being worked like crazy and that it was incredibly difficult for you to resist it and also to "see" clearly what he was doing. Had he not been so intense in what he was doing to you, you very well might have had a much harder time resisting him because his conditioning of you, his brainwashing, his imprisonment of you, his isolation of you would have been much harder for you to see what he was doing to you and you could have been much, much deeper into the relationship with him than you were when you saw it. At that time, you were very vulnerable to his manipulations, even as extreme as they were, and what has happened to your sister - it could have easily been you. Easily. We didn't call you weak though, did we? No. We tried to help you see clearly what he was doing to you, and tried to help you to find the strength that is inside of you. Without that kind of clarity from some source, things could have been worse for you. This is not a matter of weakness, imadreamer. It is a matter of being manipulated, conditioned, brainwashed, trained, just torn to shreds, drowned in the emotions of fear, guilt, obligation, and serious threat by someone who is very skilled at it, along with our own vulnerabilities, and lack of education that there are even men in this world who are looking for people to do this to. It is easy to see when you're on the outside looking in, just as it was so easy for us to see what you weren't able to when you were looking it in the face. It is incredibly difficult to see it when it's being directed at you, as you might remember. And even when you do see it, the threat hanging over our head, which you can bet there are MAJOR threats hanging over your sister's head, can make it difficult to do something about it. This can happen to anyone regardless of how strong they think they are and how strong they are in other areas of their lives. Hardly any of us are taught how to resist this kind of power-monging, much less that it even exists. You had a difficult time resisting it, and given how confused and afraid you were at the time and how much you liked him and wanted it to work, I doubt you would have been able to resist your ex-bf so soon had he been less obvious about what he doing. I think you were lucky he did his manipulations in such BIG and crazy ways, but please understand that he is the exception which is part of the reason why he stood out so much and seemed so nutty to us. Most abusers are much sneakier than he was. Your sister needs to be able to see that she does have worth, that she does have strength, that she does have options, all the things that she DOES have but that he has worked so hard to take away from her. She doesn't need you looking down your nose at her as if you're stronger and better and would never be as "weak" as she is, because you have, or had, much more in common with her in that area than you think. And you don't know what kind of threats he is holding over her head and you will probably never know. He might have told her that if she ever tries to leave, he will hunt her down and kill her, or her kids, or you. You just don't know. And you will probably never know what goes on behind their closed doors. He is probably, as most abusers are, on "good" behavior when you're around. You see the tip of the iceberg and that's it. And she's certainly not going to confide even small parts of her life with your judgmental attitude towards her. Here is some information for you that could help you figure out a more effective way of helping your sister rather than abandoning her as you state in this post that you're thinking of doing. If you do decide to help her, please don't approach her with information and get in huff if she doesn't work it all out immediately. There is much fear involved, plus some. The women we help here take anywhere from 6 months to 3 years to work it all out, but they make progress at the best rate they are able to despite the threat they're facing. She has to make the decisions regarding whether it is safer for her to stay or go based on the truth of her situation, which you do not know the details and probably never will. I hope that you will try to be more understanding of her situation and also to try to reserve judgement of a situation that you do not clearly understand. My best to you, and to her.

How You Can Help A Victim

Although, it is a very touchy and difficult subject to approach, if abuse is suspected, it is usually going on in some form or another. There are a few basic steps you can take when trying to assist someone who may be a victim of domestic violence. When approaching her the first time PLEASE take care to do it in an understanding, non-blaming way. Let her know she is not alone, that there are so very many women like her in the same kind of situations all across this nation. Tell her and show her it takes strength and courage just to survive the violence and trust someone enough to talk about what she has been living with. Be sure to acknowledge that is it scary and difficult to talk about domestic violence and it is OK for her to break the silence. Let her know she doesn't deserve to be threatened, hit or beaten, that no one does. No matter what, nothing she can do or say makes the abuser's violence OK and most importantly she is NOT responsible for the abusers behavior.

It is wise for you to do a little research before approaching her so that you can arm yourself with lots of very important information such as, print out the sections "Warning Signs", "Power & Control", and perhaps even "How to Obtain A Restraining Order", the National Domestic Violence hotline number and even the number to Legal Aid. Let her know there are shelters to go to if she desires to leave, that there are places for her and the children. Check your local yellow pages for places nearest you. Reading the contents of this section will not make you an expert on domestic violence; however, it will provide you with enough information on how to help someone recognize they are in an abusive situation and what they need to do to get help if she decides to leave.

Remember not every woman is willing to leave. Whatever the case may be show your support as a friend. Be there for her by being a good listener and encourage her to express her anger and the hurt. However, allow her to be the one to make her own decisions, even if it means she isn't ready to leave the abusive relationship, just let her know you are there for her.

In the event she wants to leave and expresses her desire to get out, please stick by her and let her know you will be there to help in any way you can. Having a friend who is willing to listen and support you can be more help then I can ever say. If she has suffered physical harm at the time offer to go to the hospital with her to check for injuries. Be there to support her while she reports the assault to the police. Be sure to get a case number!

Gather the information in your local area on where and how to obtain a restraining order against Domestic Violence. Remember, if she has left and has no financial means of support or cannot afford to pay for the order, she can obtain an order free of charge. This is up to the judges discretion, of course but don't let lack of money stop her from trying. Let her know she can also contact Legal Aid if she needs help with filing papers for custody or divorce. There is always a way even though the victims have been programmed to believe there is no way out.

Print out the "Safety Plan" strategies for leaving an abusive relationship, it's a kind of what to bring, what to do, who to contact list when it comes time to make that final break. However, PLEASE don't encourage someone to follow a safety plan and leave at a point that she believes will put her or her children at further risk or in more physical danger.

As a friend or relative of someone who is in a domestic violence situation, there are some things you can do to encourage the one you care about to get help and to get out of the violent situation they are living in. The list below is meant to help you keep in mind the most important things in dealing with such a situation. I hope they will help you gain the patience and understanding you will need.

1.) A woman who remains in a domestic violence situation does not do so because she "likes it." To think that this is true will leave her feeling less and less understood by anyone. Don't ever say those words about her.

2.) It is important to realize that a woman in a domestic violence situation has most likely been told repeatedly that she cannot make it on her own. That she can't even handle life as it is. (according to the abuser) It will take patience and constant reminding to help her to come to the place that she believes she is strong enough to stand alone.

3.) Remember, she is a victim, and even when she appears to be gaining ground, she is apt to doubt herself each time a violent encounter occurs. She feels degraded, weak, and unable to be strong. Each episode of violence will drag her a few steps backwards. But don't let that discourage your efforts to help. Start again, and remind her how far she had come and how far she can go. Keep at it. Don't get fed up and quit. If you do, she may lose the only real hope she has found.

4.) Offer to help her in any way that you can. Let her know you will be there for her should she decide to leave, the same as you are now. Be steadfast in your stand as a friend. Be there for whatever she needs, at any time.

5.) No matter how fed up you may get, never put conditions on your friendship or caring. To lose what may be her only connection to hope could be very devastating. Never say things like, "Until you're ready to leave, don't call me." or "I'm tired of trying and never getting anywhere with you." Remember, the decision has to be hers. Until she's strong enough to make that first step, she will stay where she is.

6.) Never give up. If you undertake helping a domestic violence victim, you must be committed to her for whatever time it will take for her to gain the strength to leave. It may be a short period of time, or it may take years. If you start, then finish. Should you decide to abandon her in the middle of it all, she will feel even more isolated and doomed to live with the abuse she endures now.

7.) Have patience. It may be a long road for you both. It is difficult for you to watch, but always keep in mind, it's much more difficult for her to live.

8.) Help her to devise a plan to leave. Help her to reach her goals. Encourage her to keep saving money, whether it's cutting corners on a few meals, having a yard sale, watching your kids while he's at work to earn a little money he knows nothing about, or even buying her a few household supplies now and then so that she can save the money he thinks she is spending. Even in situations where the abuser won't let a woman work, there is always a way for her to get creative with the money she does get.

9.) Abusers like to keep the women isolated from their families and friends. Try not to let the abuser isolate you from her. This can be difficult at times, but be persistent if she tries to cut the ties to keep peace. Limit your involvement to times he is not around if necessary, but try to keep the lines of communication open if there is a way to do that without placing her in danger.

10.) Above all, be consistent with the love and support you are giving. Stay with it, and keep telling her how much her life matters to you and to others, and that you believe in her. Don't give up when times get hard. Be there for her, and pray for her. Every hurting woman deserves a ray of hope. Be that for the woman you know who is suffering more than you can ever know.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-15-2004
In reply to: legs22
Sun, 02-27-2005 - 2:05pm

"My sister seems so weak where her husband is concerned."

You're right, she --seems-- weak. That's just the way things look.

My sister married a violent tempered guy. She also does things to accomodate him, to keep him from going into fits. My sister has always been tough as nails, she used to beat us up. So I was shocked that she didn't stand up to him more. But when the kids have gone into fits like his, I've heard her say "it's not worth it" when it comes to telling them no. She sees it as the easier way to deal with things, but I see it as encouraging controlling behavior. You give them an inch, they take a mile.

I said something to my sister once about it and it didn't go well. But in hindsight, I noticed that she had left me other opportunities. I should have said things when she provided her own commentary on the situation. I remember one time she stopped by my parents' place while her husband and kids were at his parents' place. When asked why it was just her, she said "I needed to get out of the madhouse over there ." I wanted so bad to say something right then, but was too afraid. That was the day after he yelled at me. I wish, wish, wish I had said something that day, right then. Not necessarily slinging around the word "abuse," because that is hard to admit to. But your sister and mine both need to see that "something" is wrong and needs to stop.

Now look how strong you are, you got out of a relationship that was trying to wear you down but the "inner you" prevailed. Now that's awesome.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-31-2006
In reply to: legs22
Sun, 02-27-2005 - 2:35pm

Yes, my ex-bf was extreme which made it easy to see something was wrong and finally identify with the help of message boards like this what it was. He ended up being arrested for stalking. Then he didn't bother me anymore.


My sister hasn't had such clear signs and she has been with her husband since high school... about 25 yrs. This is all she knows. She doesn't know any different. Wasn't there an analogy about a frog? You put a frog in a pot of water and gradually turn up the heat. The frog doesn't realize the changes until the water is boiling and it's too late.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: legs22
Sun, 02-27-2005 - 3:14pm
Hi...25 years ago there was no education about abuse and no help. Today there is. I don't believe it's too late. Plenty of women have left through this board after 25-30 years of marriage. Most of those women didn't really see it as normal, they knew it was wrong or didn't feel right, they just didn't know it was called "abuse" and that there was something they could do about it. You might think about giving her an abuse checklist, brochure or book on domestic abuse, IN SECRET, and let her decide what she wants to do with it.

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