Narcissist?

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-01-2004
Narcissist?
26
Tue, 11-30-2004 - 5:34pm

Hello again, I hope everyone is doing well and keeping their chins up! ;)

Just popping in for a quick question, some of you may remember my story.

Recently he told me a few strange and downright scarey things about her.

a) She heard about a certain problem in my city and said to him "I hope they all die". He asked her why and she replies "You know why!". (Because I live there - she would like me to be dead. (Don't worry, she won't come near me!)

b) They were walking outside and passed a young woman sitting nearby, crying her eyes out. As they pass her, she starts mock-laughing "he he he" because she thought it was funny that the girl was miserable. He was shocked and asks her why she's laughing at that and she snaps, and for the rest of the day she goes on and on and on about it and how there was nothing wrong with her laughing at it.

c) Again, they're outside in a public area and a little girl is playing by a little pond, stepping on stones in the water and the little girls mother is warning her "Don't fall in now!". She said to him "I hope she falls in". He asked her why she'd say such a thing and, you guessed it, she snaps at him for questioning her, and the next few days mean that she's going on and on about how she said nothing wrong.

Isn't this odd?? Doesn't that sound like a narsissist? No empathy at ALL for other living beings?

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-18-2004
In reply to: missiceland
Mon, 12-06-2004 - 10:17pm

It is unheard of that a man can be so hooked up on an abusive female. Usually it is a woman who cannot get out because there is still(!) a social utility to her being imprisoned in such relationship and she cannot face the fear of feelling betrayed by the society. Women are given passive roles while man dominate in all areas of life . They are payed better for the same job, their wives depend on their health insurance, they have affairs and are phisically stronger.

Society generally dismisses female needs for fulfilment and prevails myths such as " if she is raped she is demaged goods" for example. It is usually a woman's sexuality that defines a woman and not a woman who defines her own sexuality. I think these are important feminist issues that cannot be ignored and from this point of view it is easier for a man to leave. Your friend' s girlfriend he is stuck with and who keeps destroying your friendship is clearly an abusive and cruel person. Unfortunately there is another myth that some men are drawn to irrational, strong femme fatal and it looks that your friend found himself a new role in life - to be under her shoe (or a stilleto).

All i was trying to say in my previous message was exactly this that some cruel people can also appear as very exciting. I know cos i have this type in my family unfortunately. My mum loves to make a potentional victim getting hooked up on her. And she always succedes because in that cruelty she is very crafty and can appear fascinating. You will have to use all your strengh to make that woman look that she is out of her wits in you friend's eyes. As long as she appears strong to him he will be stuck in this situation. There is probably a "feeling sorry for her" factor which she manipulates him with well. I feel really sorry for you I hope he is worth all your attention and friendship. Does he really appreciate you for what you do to him? Does it ever cross your mind that may be he wants to have the best of both worlds: your tender caring and her thrilling ardealine rush?

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-01-2004
In reply to: missiceland
Tue, 12-07-2004 - 5:06am

Alright, I now see your point. I've thought about this actually, maybe he's "hooked on the drama" and finds her exciting in some way, and I've also thought about exactly what you're saying, about him getting the best of both worlds, the excitement and drama from her and my stability and concern. He never speaks kindly about her, and he finds her boring and annoying. I think he just feels stuck, and doesn't want to ruin her life by leaving her, and more to the point, doesn't want to "go through" the harassment he will get if he leaves -- he has tried a good few times.

However, it is absolutely NOT unheard of that females abuse their male partners.

Studies even show that females are just as likely as men to be violent towards their partners.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-18-2004
In reply to: missiceland
Tue, 12-07-2004 - 7:11pm

"Studies even show that females are just as likely as men to be violent towards their partners." What exact studies are those?

Inequality prevails in societies like English or US. Females are paid less for the same job because the employers know that females are likely to take time off due to potential future pregnancy or caring for the baby. The hardships intrinsic to womanhood are omitted in prefessional environments and myths that put women down as independant citizens are very much alive. Statistics speak for themselves if it comes to reported harrassments, assaults, stalking, rapes and murders. Women cases significantly outnumber men's .

Women heve more difficulty in getting out of relationships than men especially when they take care of children and are financially dependant on their partners.
Unfortunately the society still promotes dominant role for males. In England powerful women from aristocracy who in the 19th and 20th century had significant influence over politics and society via academic work and numerous charities had been gradually pushed away off public life by male dominated governments.

I believe that unsupported statements like the one you had made are sabotaging hard work of feminists that had been achieved in the last century alone.

This is not to say that women cannot be abusers only that men have easier to breake off and get out of the relationship by 1.nature (it is a female who needs a sense of bondage after sex while male is ready to go) and by 2.social conditioning ( men wages are higher for the same job, women depend on their health insurance etc.) That is why i cannot really simpathize with your friend and suspect that this is a way for him to b in the center of events and to get full attention which he surely enjoys.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-07-2004
In reply to: missiceland
Tue, 12-07-2004 - 7:49pm

Hello,

I was interested in your message title because I recently stumbled on a website all about narcissim: http://samvak.tripod.com/1.html The website is hosted by the author of a book entitled Narcissism: Malignant Self Love by Dr. Sam Vaknim. I am still sifting through the information which is very abundant. He posits that many abusers are in fact narcissists. As you mentioned he also refers to the narcissist's lack of empathy:
"Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with, acknowledge, or accept the feelings, needs, preferences, priorities, and choices of others" but there are many other signs.

Its an interesting website for anyone dealing with an abuser. After scanning, I definitely saw my bf in there...arrogant, needs to be right, manipulative, uses others,
obsessed with his own appearance and positive qualities.
Another helpful site: http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php/type/doc/id/419

C

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-01-2004
In reply to: missiceland
Wed, 12-08-2004 - 7:57am

Ofcurse I understand that in general it is harder for a female to break free - she's typically the one who takes the children, and the smaller paycheck.

But to suggest that men stay in abusive relationships because they enjoy it? I think that's a bit harsh.

I'm sorry that you feel this is taking away from any feminist battles. Do you not believe that females are also capable of violence and manipulation? Or do females have a superior right to abuse, because there is inequality in society? Latly, do you not believe that men have feelings and can suffer too?

Here are just a few links I've dug up online. There was one research in particular that seemed very "legit", but unfortunately I can't find it again! I'll keep looking...

http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm
http://ncfm-dc.org/issues/myths/myth1.html
http://www.panix.com/~holzman/maledv/
http://www.amen.ie/
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/6708/femvioln.html
http://www.enotes.com/domestic-violence/2388
http://www.menz.org.nz/Information/female.htm
http://www.menz.org.nz/Information/dvresearch.htm
http://www.menweb.org/throop/battery/battery.html
http://www.angryharry.com/tgTheHiddenSideofDomesticViolence.htm

Having put all these links up there, I honestly don't care which of the sexes abuses more, both do it, and both are wrong to do so.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-18-2004
In reply to: missiceland
Wed, 12-08-2004 - 10:15am

Hello Missiceland,

As i said very clearily before i never question the fact that abuse againts males exists.

You should check out Jennifer J. Freyd weside. Your recommendations on websides are of very amatourish and superficial approach im afraid. Feminism is never a peaceful movement and it never should be. Breaking windows by English suffragists was justified but should not be taken out of historical context.

Young girls who were admitted to the universities experience first red flags of betrayal by society when they realize they mostly appreciated when they are just dumb and beautiful. Thats not why their parents pay high fees and thats not why they worked hard to get in. They may express the rage against the mysoginstic culture that exploits young girls as sexual objects during courship when they realise they are traped .Angst is also very common while you are young why should it be surprising that only man have a right to express it. Passive roles for females again? How old is the female in question anyway?

Jennifer J Freyd talk about every case of neurosis as being very individual case. She does not make wide generalizations and give simplified answers to any problem like the ones available on the websides that you have listed.

Is it really that simple to say that the man do not leave abusive partners because of childen. How about your man than? He does not have any children with this woman so what kind of stimulation does he need to leave?

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-01-2004
In reply to: missiceland
Wed, 12-08-2004 - 11:06am

Apologies for the misunderstanding. I do see that you agree that it does happen.

As for these links being amateur -- I had a feeling I'd get that response to them. This was more of means to show that there is an abundance of material on the subject.

Although I have to admit that I am failing to see your point in all of this. But I do get that you have no sympathy for the man, because he clearly enjoys it, being the shallow man that he must be. This female is 27, he is 29. They have no children. He was brought up in an abusive household, later witnessing his father trying to kill his mother. I can tell you, he enjoyed none of that and isn't enjoying the abuse.

But you are perfectly entitled to your opinion, and thank you for it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-18-2004
In reply to: missiceland
Wed, 12-08-2004 - 11:47am

Please do not get me wrong . I think your friend is adult enough to be able to make a decission. There is a point in an abusive relationship when one understands that one is in a vicious circle and has to breake it to live life. There is no point of being imprisoned in a pattern that causes only tears, pain and depression. Try to put this into a perspective for him.
He has to get out as well as she has to get out. I know the latter can be difficult as she may want to start stalking him etc. but first of all he has to want to brake it completely in the most peaceful way possible and he has to be adament about it. Moving to another town can always be an option.
Firstly and formostly though he cannot be percieved as "demaged goods" by you cos of his past. he clearly must have self respect first to expect respect from others and build a new beggining on it with you. Thats provided you want to take him (under your wings?)

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-01-2004
In reply to: missiceland
Wed, 12-08-2004 - 1:07pm


Oh, if I had a penny for each time I've tried to put this into perspective for him :)

I absolutely do not see him as damaged goods. I understand that his past may have some effects on his "idea" of what is normal/acceptible in close relatinships. And for all the bits that are even clearly outrageous to him, he tries to block it out, didn't happen, it's not so bad. He can't block out that he is miserable though. I think he believes that one day she will become secure and happy and will become "normal".

And by the way, we are not "romantic" friends, he's more like a brother to me.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-18-2004
In reply to: missiceland
Wed, 12-08-2004 - 1:59pm

In any way was i suggesting that you were romantically involved i gathered that you were just friends long time ago alrerady. I just was saying that if he finally breakes off you may find yourself in a very different situation to were are you right now. This may give potential for deep romance and even love / marriage or terrible disapointment.
I wish i had these clarity of thought two months ago though when i was in a midst of a romance with my long term friend from the university .This is the reson why im on this boards today. I started something that did not have a perspective. My friend who i always loved for being cool, charismatic and frank suddenly turned into my lover who was: uncaring, irritating and brush. And yes the potential is still there for us to make it but i have already adopted policy of NO CONTACT. He is a guy a woman feels safe with on the streets, has spend several years in Shaolin Temple in China studying martial arts, we shere the same taste in painting and even buy the same brand of trainers. Yet something did not work out. He was soo out of line and a real weasel too. May be its because i discovered that he steals peoples drinks at clubs when they go dancing, i dont know, but surely money matters can trigger very bad vibes and very bad karma.
Unfortunately it means for me that i not only lost a recent lover but also long term friend who was the only one who could say my name in a right way. (Life really sucks .) I guess in your case it is opposite cos your man sounds like a bit of a wimp.

I hope you will sort out this thing especially thinking of yourself as it looks it is consuming a lot from you but if you feel true love to him you should knock out that crazy woman but than would you be happy giving him first aid on a daily basis? What are the chances that he changes into a balanced human being. What if he gets hook up on you and try cut himself when you get into your own relationship with somebody else? You might find yourself then having to share your time between your boyfriend and hospital visits in emergency wing.