Sex Abuse, RO and XMas

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2004
Sex Abuse, RO and XMas
21
Thu, 12-22-2005 - 4:35pm

It's been a while since I've written in, but needed to get to vent and maybe get some advice.

A couple weeks ago, my daughter told me that Daddy was still touching her even though I've been supervising the visitation. What a blow! Even when we're out to dinner he manages to get a feel in (my poor baby!!). She wouldn't admit it to the counselor, but fortunately did admit it to me. I told my attorney and we created a motion asking for emergency temporary custody orders giving me sole custody, forcing him to have supervised visitation and forcing him to get a hair follicle test. The motion included EVERYTHING: what Ashley said, what she's been doing that makes us believe it's molestation, his weird actions and his admitted drug use. This was the first time he or his attorney had ever seen all the accusations. It's the same attorney representing him for the criminal case for CPS (that's been moved to inactive because STBX won't go in to talk to them and all they have is Ashley's word). Until this time he and his family have not cared about my daughter, they thought nothing had happened and I was just accusing him to get custody. I don't know if he thinks any different now, but... At the time Ashley disclosed, I was still working on getting back together with him (I was one of those stupid ones who thought he could change).

The later the same night we finished the motion, at about 11:00 pm STBX called accusing me of going into the house and taking both of our yearbooks and his gun and he was coming over with the police to retrieve his items (he was yelling at me that I took his personal stuff). He 'knew' it was me because he had left money on the counter and it was still there. I hadn't been in the house in over a week and he walked me thru showing me what he had done so I couldn't have touched anything. He had accused me of taking those same items on a different occasion so apparently in Arizona we have a Yearbook thief who doesn't have their own gun and likes to leave money on the counter and comes back to take the same things. WARNING, WARNING. :)

He called me while I was at my lawyer's the next day and said he realized it wasn't me, but the house was a mess. I figure during one of his stupors he decided to tear up the house and didn't remember doing it.

On the same day as the temp orders were presented (the day after he called with the accusation), I applied for a order of protection. Both orders were granted by 2 different judges. His hair follicle test came back positive for cocaine. I haven't heard from him since, but still feel guilty for going for the RO since he hadn't been 'really' violent just a lot of phone calls. He did however park in front of a neighbor's house last week (after the RO) and drove around the block whenever anyone drove by on the street. At least my family and I figured it was him the next day and were comparing stories.

My issue now is I feel guilty because he hasn't seen the girls in a couple weeks and we're coming up on Christmas. And the girls are asking to see him. He can't find anyone that I agree with to do the supervising and the official court supervisors are booked. I've even thought about doing it with my dad just so STBX and his family can see them for Christmas and because I'm objecting to who he is recommending (because the people either don't know what happened or don't believe it did and wouldn't stop anything). I don't want to keep him from his daughters, but I want to keep them safe. Any suggestions?

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-12-2005
Tue, 12-27-2005 - 7:27pm

I don't want to keep him from his daughters, but I want to keep them safe.>>>

Sweetie. Read the above statement again.

I'm sorry I know you don't want to hear this, but if this pig is using any opportunity imaginable to cop a feel on your baby girls, then the ONLY way to keep them safe is to keep them from him.

Sarah

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iVillage Member
Registered: 09-12-2005
Tue, 12-27-2005 - 7:29pm

I see what novembersky is saying.

Sarah

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iVillage Member
Registered: 09-29-2005
Tue, 12-27-2005 - 10:08pm

Folks, I do want to remind one and all that this

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-30-2003
Wed, 12-28-2005 - 8:20am
I am sorry. I was molested as a kid and the one thing that really hurt was that people were not outraged by it and they damm well should have been. When the original post said she found out he was still molesting her girl two weeks ago and then she says felt bad because he hadn't seen the girl in two weeks, it just really bothered me. I would want his head for doing what he did. It wouldn't be a case of 'poor baby' she's been molested again. It would be that I would want to kill him for what he is doing to that child. Of course the child still wants to see him, molesters mess with a kids head, make them feel that they molest them because they love them etc. I wish her no ill will, I just can't see why she would feel 'guilty' about him not seeing the children. The 'guilty' word was mentioned several times and I just don't get it.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-14-2005
Wed, 12-28-2005 - 9:08am

Hi Novembersky,

I know what you're saying. My father touched me inappropriately during my teen years, and when I'd get angry and tell him to stop it, he'd just laugh and tell me how easily upset I was and how I couldn't take a joke.

My mother? I don't remember ever talking about it with her because my father's behavior was always accepted as "that's just the way he is."

He STILL doesn't think he did anything wrong.

I grew up hating my father and hating myself for hating him because I felt that it was wrong to hate my own father, especially when he said that he loved me and gave me a nice house to live in, food to eat, and clothes to wear. I grew up thinking that I must be a big dumb baby because I couldn't take a joke.

So I grew up to be a pretty confused adult with a bunch of strange experiences with strange men.

I'd rather have not had any contact with my father. I'm sure I'd have grown up to be a much stronger and much more stable adult than I am now.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-29-2005
Wed, 12-28-2005 - 10:10am

I just want to address the guilt thing.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-27-2003
Tue, 01-03-2006 - 12:04pm

Hi Valerie, you don't know me, but I used to be a CL on this board and was here for a very long time, along with then CL's Mizlizzy and Mindspeak. If you look into the archives you will find us. I still read here when I can and I read your post this morning and need to reply.

Hon, in your post I heard you mention doubting your daughter, feeling guilty for your husband not being able to see the kids around Christmas, that your own parents don't understand your feelings on this, and that you still love this man. Ok, let's break this down...of course you feel guilty. You feel guilty because you are still under the cloud of conditioning that hovers over every single woman who is abused and who is still in contact with her abuser. Abuse is always about breaking the victim down, making her doubt her own thoughts, her gut feelings, and her intelligence. Abuse is about making the victim lose her sense of self worth and keeping her off balance ALL the time. It takes a very long time even after leaving an abusive relationship for this conditioning to go away and for a woman to return to the person she was before the abuse ever happened. If there is any continued contact with the abuser after leaving, all healing is set back light years. Even the smallest contact can delay the return of the real you. An email in your inbox (even if you don't reply), a phone call, all of these things can have a profound effect on how fast you heal, and what you must understand is that until you heal you are not thinking clearly. You are right now, this minute, thinking with the mind of a woman who is still under the control of an abuser. He may not be living with you, but he still has you doubting yourself, your daughter, and feeling guilty and worrying about him...a child molester...getting to see the daughter he molested.

As for you still loving him, I know you think you do and I also know you aren't going to believe this right now, and that's normal, but sweetie, you believe you love him because like all women in an abusive relationship, you have lost sight of what love is. When I first left my abuser an abuse counselor friend of mine gave me a little leather bracelet by Liz Claiborne that says, Love is not abuse....is not love. Victims of abuse become co-dependent with the abuser, they become addicted to the abusive relationship and they stay because they are constantly trying to prove the abuser wrong about them and are also constantly trying to make the abuser see the error of his ways, admit he was wrong, and change. None of this ever happens though, until the victim leaves the abuser. Then suddenly the abuser is exactly the man you always wanted....the man you *could* love. But the reality is, this part is all an act. An abuser will be whoever he needs to be at any given time in order to regain control. Then once he does, he returns to the abuser he truly is. You can't feel love for the abuse. What you are in love with is the dream, and Sweetie, this dream isn't even real. It takes a long time to see this, and it takes time away from the abuser, so that you can gain clarity of mind again.

Valerie, I'll bet when you are away from him and don't have his or his family's influence for a little while you have moments of clarity and in those moments when the thought of what he did to your daughter comes into your head, you KNOW it's true and in that moment you are seething and hate him with an uncontrollable passion. I'll bet in that moment you feel a huge burst of energy born of the adrenaline of anger and you begin to see yourself standing up to him and putting him away for what he did to your child. But then I would bet that the second you have contact with him or his family again, that altho you may argue passionately with him or them at first, you also begin to feel the same old doubt creeping in and before long you are once again questioning your own beliefs and you just aren't sure of yourself and what you believe, nor are you sure of your daughter's story.

Please understand that this is all part of the cycle of abuse. But the problem here is, your daughter's emotional and physical well being is at stake, so you don't have the luxury of taking your time with this. You will have to realize that everything you feel.....the doubt, the guilt, all of it, is what he is counting on making you feel. You must push past those feelings for your child's sake and do the right thing for her. Valerie, I assure you that a sexual molester will take even the smallest opportunity to grope or touch a child and they are VERY good at concealing it. Trust me Valerie, he can do it without you ever seeing, therefore making you question if it is even happening. They can do it when they lift a child up, help them into a chair, put them in the car, get them a drink, etc. NO opportunity is wasted and if this is happening to your daughter, and in fact she is telling you that it has already happened, then it is your job and in fact, your duty, to protect her whether you see it happen or not. Believe Her. Even if you have moments of doubt. Push those doubts out of your head and believe your child. Your doubts are born out of the conditioning that comes with being abused. You are not thinking clearly and you won't be for some time. The only safety children know is the safety provided them by their parents. Your daughter needs you to keep her safe. Her whole worth as a human being depends upon it.

I have not read your past posts so I don't have full info on your story, but from what I am reading here it looks like for some reason you or your husband are the ones deciding who supervises this 2 hour mandatory visitation. Hon, you need to call Child Welfare and tell them what your daughter has told you. Have they been contacted by you yet and have they done an investigation? They should be the ones providing the supervisor for these visits or you should be telling your lawyer you want court appointed supervision. They will find someone who knows how to supervise this situation and make sure there is no room for error. If child welfare has not been advised of this (but I would have imagined if you haven't contacted them your attorney has?), there might not even be any visitation at all, but if there still is, child welfare can provide the supervision, and should. You need someone skilled in the behavior of child molestor supervising this rather than you or some other lay person doing it.

There are ways you can stop contact with your husband and for your daughter's sake (and yours) I can't sress enough how much you need to do this. I know it's hard, and you can come up with 10 million excuses why it won't work, but trust me, it can work and it will. You just have to get past being uncomfortable with it yourself (again, because of the conditioning and co-depedency you may find it hard to do this) and do it anyway so you can regain the clarity of mind you need in order to protect your daughter and also so you will be able to move on with your own life. All contact can be done throught he court system or through a third party court appointed liason. Ask your attorney about it, it can be done and in fact it *is* done all the time. Many women from this board who were serious about getting free from their abusers did this because they realized the contact was not healthy, and/or because the continued contact put them or their children in danger. You do not have to deal with your husband or his family. You do not even have to take their phone calls. All communication can go through a court appointed third party and then you can have the freedom and the time to heal, and for the cloud and veil of conditioning from the abuse to lift so you can begin to think clearly again. Your daughter can then have the benefit of your rational, un-manipulated thoughts and be able to feel safe again.

Valerie, please do whatever it takes to protect your child, even if you doubt it right now and even if it feels terribly uncomfortable to you right now.You owe her the benefit of the doubt, and I promise you that your daughter is telling you the truth. It's the guilt and the conditioning of the abuse that makes you doubt it. But the reality is, your daughter is being molested and has been molested, by the very Father she is supposed to be able to trust above all other men in this world. Get on the web and do some searches on how pedophiles groom their victims. Even if you know those things already (I read the part where you were molested also and I am so sorry....), you need to keep refreshed on this information so you can keep your head clear. Keep reading information on child molestation, read information on the conditioning of abuse and how it can make you see things from a distorted view. Do whatever it takes to counteract the voices that keep making you doubt.

This man will take any opportunity he can to molest your child. He is a very sick man and if you have ever read the statistics on *healed* child molesters then you know they are very grim. Your husband doesn't want to be around your child because he loves her with the love a father has for a child, because he doesn't know what that love is. No man who loves a child would ever do what he is doing to yours. Please remove all the obstacles that are keeping you from seeing things clearly. Stop the contact with your husband and his family so you can stop the guilt and the doubt. You don't have the privelege of drawing this out. Your daughter is at stake here, so it is very important that even if it is uncomfortable for you, you must take the necessary steps to protect her above all else.

I understand that the conditioning of abuse can make cutting all contact, asking for a court appointed liason, and stepping outside of a box that, while being extremely painful and abusive, has also become weirdly familiar, can be very difficult. Many of us in the past and some here in the present have all been there and we understand. But when it comes down to it, this is what you must do. You must step up and realize that because of the conditioning you may not be thinking clearly right now, and then you must push past what you *feel* and take the proper action that will ensure your daughter's safeyt above all cost and at the stake of anyone and everyone else's feelings.

Hugs,
Jeepster

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2004
Tue, 01-03-2006 - 6:20pm

Jeepster:

Thank you soooooo much!!! You are so right!

This is it exactly. I often do get extremely upset over what he did (and I believe he did it, but wish I really had the proof that it was him and not someone else in case I need to protect her from them instead) and really do hate him, then he would call and it would start all over again. I do stand up to him and am really proud of myself when I do. He says 'I can't believe how much you've changed' especially when I stand up to him and that makes me feel proud too, because it means he's losing some of his control over me. His father I almost really do hate because he refuses to even acknowledge that anything happened to his granddaughter and tries to push me to allow more than I believe should. They would rather think that my mom put it in her head. I wish I could believe that too and nothing really did happen to her, but I know better.

I only filed for the Order of Protection the first part of December, prior to that he called me almost every day. He would make me feel guilty if I didn't call him back (if I didn't talk to him right away), or get angry if I wouldn't agree to visitation when he wanted it or more visitation (I had it worked out to be once per week and he wanted 2 or more). I've only been without hearing from him for a few weeks, and it has been really nice not dreading whenever the phone rings.

BTW, this was a one time supervision case, just for xmas because his lawyer was pushing for something and my lawyer said it would look good in court that we weren't trying to prevent visitation. We are looking for someone else long term who is better trained in recognizing abuse to do the other court ordered supervision.

I was feeling like such a bad mother with what some other people were saying here, and I know I'm not and you're words really helped me realize it is not just me but my conditioning (and him) making me feel guilty for this and doubting what is going on. I believed my daughter was abused almost from the first and did what I needed to in order to protect her, even though some here don't believe that and I was stupid enough to believe that he wouldn't do anything in front of me. Since I already messed up, I went for someone better (not to mention getting me out of the supervision) who knows the acts you mentioned and will stop them. I WILL protect my daughters. And not having contact with him myself is really helping me to become stronger and see what is happening. I expect to continue becoming stronger...

For all who have also gone through this and were not believed, my thoughts and prayers go out to you as well. Thank you all for your thoughts and concerns.

Valerie

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-27-2003
Tue, 01-03-2006 - 9:32pm

It's good that you're feeling stronger and since you have an OP, make sure you don't break it, or allow him to break it.

I can't stress enough that if child welfare has not been notified, they need to be. You really shouldn't try to handle this yourself. Don't be afraid to call them and don't not call them because you are second guessing yourself, asking yourself what if you are wrong, worried about him or his parents, or anyone else. They need to be the ones doing an investigation and making determinations. Child welfare workers are skilled in asking the right questions to determine if something is going on, and yes I know the child welfare system is extremely flawed, to the point I could really get on my soapbox about that one, but not *all* of the system is flawed and they do have people who want to help and who can even make recommendations to the courts. This man does not need to be allowed to get away with this. There are lots of other children out there and if nobody reports what he has done he will just be left free to do it to some other little girl......and trust me, he will.

So many child predators are out there roaming free right now because somebody, somewhere, for one reason or another, couldn't bring themselves to turn them in. This man is an endangerment to every other child he may come into contact with during his lifetime, including mine or anyone else's on this board. These pedophiles will fool some other woman down the road somewhere into believing they are good men, as you probably once believed your husband was, and what if that woman has a little girl? No innocent child should ever have to be put in jeopardy because someone who could have prevented it didn't want to rattle a cage.

And lastly let me say this: Even if this guy never molested anyone in his life (which of course is not the case, but let's just say it is), then he is still an abuser and from what I have read, a drug addict. You have enough reason to never have anything to do with him again simply for those reasons. Stick with that OP and don't have any contact with his family either. Call child welfare and then let the courts and the legal system work for your daughter. Never give a second thought to the feelings of this abuser or his gullible, in-denial parents. All that matters is your child. Do what is in her best interest, and do not be afraid to rock your husband's or his parent's, boat.

I really am not trying to sound harsh, but there is no room for error where your child is concerned. Please do not try and handle this yourself, and certainly do not let some attorney tell you to do *whatever* because it will *look good in court* for you not to seem to prevent visitation. What kind of attorney says that about a man who is accused of molesting his child? You definitely *should* be doing anything and everything you can to prevent visitation and that is why child welfare needs to be called. Another thing is, if you do not call them and it comes out that your daughter has told you that her daddy molested her and child welfare finds out you knew and did not contact them, you could be in trouble as well.

I am telling you all of this because I know how confusing it can get when you have an abuser and his family threatening you from every corner or trying to make you feel like you're wrong or crazy. Weed out all the noise and listen to the truth. Get somewhere where you can get quiet and listen to your heart....then turn him in.

Take Care,
Jeepster

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2004
Wed, 01-04-2006 - 1:45pm

Jeepster:

Again, thanks for the support to help me stay strong. :)

CPS (Child Protective Services) in Arizona is similar to Child Welfare in other states. I called them very shortly after Ashley reported the abuse and they have interviewed her (she didn't talk to them, kept changing the subject or not saying anything), did a physical exam (she fought them so all they could discover was that her hymen was intact) and they definitely believe she was molested. They also had me make a report to the police so they could officially research it as a criminal case. Unfortunately the officer in charge said they didn't have enough to arrest stbx or force him to come in for an interview. He said it was Ashley's word against his and unless stbx comes in and admits it there's nothing that can be done for this case. The officer did say if stbx did (or does) molest another child, they can use both cases to go after him because it will be 2 accusers and not just one person's word against another. Since stbx refuses to go in to talk to them, the case has been moved to inactive. If he ever does come in to talk or if something comes out in court or any interview we do, they will reactivate the case and continue investigating. But for now it's done.