Update and Confusion...
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| Wed, 11-02-2005 - 8:50am |
I haven't posted here in a few months, mostly because I'm embarrassed and confused. Short recap - my H and I separated a few years ago because he was too rough with me. We reconciled about a year and a half ago and everything was going great, but over the summer he broke my handicapped DS8's arm. I am absolutely positive that none of this was intentional. My H is not a mean person, he's not evil. It comes from carelessness, negligence, and 18 years in the military. He's never said ANYTHING to me or my children that could remotely be construed as abusive. He's not mentally abusive. He supports me and our kids in every possible way. He just doesn't seem able to maintain physical boundaries and respect the fact that me and my handicapped DS8 aren't physically tough enough to deal with him sometimes. I don't know if that makes sense or not.
I went with him to see his therapist about a month ago and his therapist pretty much confirmed what I'm trying to say here. My H is a good person who adores his family, but is a narcissist and doesn't respect other people's physical boundaries. His therapist believes that he can learn to respect our boundaries, and that having been thrown out of the house and kept away from his kids for 6 weeks made the message loud and clear to him - he's got to pay more attention to the way he treats us. Ironically, or maybe not, my therapist who has met H totally agrees with this assessment - my H truly doesn't mean any harm. Maybe you could compare him to a labrador puppy who jumps all over people and knocks them down. No harm intended, just way too rough.
Anyhows, when my H broke my DS8's arm over the summer, he was taking DS out of his wheelchair and threw him on the bed. DS has little or no control over his body and couldn't move his arm out of the way. When he landed, his arm was turned backwards and that's how it broke. I wasn't home when this happened, and H kept it a secret because he was so embarrassed. DS didn't get medical attention for 2 days, when I noticed the swelling and finally got DS to crack and tell me what happened. I promptly threw H out.
Unfortunately also during this time, we were living in an apartment while our house was being rebuild to accomodate DS's handicap. H did not move back into the house with us but helped in every way he could to get us situated. The house is gigantic and the mortgage payments are ridiculously high. We can afford the house on both of our incomes, but he cannot afford the mortgage and rent for him to live separately. After 6 weeks he couldn't stay where he was staying any longer (with a friend) and pretty much just moved his stuff into the house. By that time, after taking care of my handicapped child myself for 6 weeks I was exhausted, felt defeated, was suffering from severe depression, and didn't argue with him. Immediately upon moving in, H started getting up with DS in the middle of the night (DS needs to be repositioned several times per night and he can't move his own body. He also has respiratory issues that need to be monitored all night) so I could get a good night's sleep. H has done everything humanly possible to make my life better and just stay out of my way, not cause any more harm.
I met H in college and we started out as, and have always been, the best of friends. It was impossible for us to live together and not become emotionally intimate, which is where we are now. We both LOVE football, and we sit and watch the games together and cheer for our favorite teams, we both run long distance so we go out on long runs together and talk about life. What else???? We have a great relationship BUT FOR his narcissism.
There is tremendous upside to keeping this man in my life. That said, I'm emotionally exhausted from dealing with him. I have to admit that his self-centeredness and narcissistic tendencies have gotten tremendously better since he's been in therapy. He is far less chaotic. He is extremely helpful around the house. He pulls his own weight, and then some. He makes alot of money and is very successful (that's where his narcissism comes in handy - he runs a consumer company).
On the one hand, I KNOW it's very likely that the incident over the summer will repeat itself. H has really, really bad judgment where my DS is concerned. He has admitted to his horrendous judgment and told me, flat out, that he will defer to my judgment whenever we have a difference of opinion. He admitted that my decision-making where the children are concerned is far superior. Still, I'm fearful of what could happen when he has his next brain-lapse with DS and I'm not around to stop it.
I'm also quite tired of dealing with his narcisstic chaos. I'm an extreme introvert and he's the life of the party (he doesn't drink or drug or anything like that, he's just a big party waiting to happen). He's loud, opinionated, rough, you get the picture. I'll be 43 in a few weeks and am still very fit and attractive. On the one hand, I want to move on while I can still attract another man (LOL!) because I'm fearful of history repeating itself. On the other hand, I'm so tired I just want to settle down where I know I'll live a comfortable, easy life and enjoy retirement traveling around the world if I want. This isn't about the money, because I'm not a material person. This is about taking care of a severely handicapped child and my exhaustion from it. I need to make life as easy as I can, because I suffer from depression and I'm a recovering addict/alcoholic (3 years clean and sober!) so I'm not the most emotionally stable person. This episode over the summer sent me into outer orbit.
I pray alot.
Sorry this was so long and if you read it all, thanks so much. Any feedback would be awesome. Love, Mo.


Hey, Mo.
Thanks so much for your input. I hadn't actually considered the situation from the point of view you raised, but here's the thing: I mentioned in my first post on this thread that I'm bipolar and a recovering addict/alcoholic. I think I'm used to being the "crazy" one in almost any situation and this is not necessarily because of anything H says. It's ME. I'm willing to be labeled the "crazy" one. Yes, somehow or other everyone, including ME, seems to have moved past the anger and on to feeling sorry for H. In addition, I'm sure like many other women on this board, I'm ONE TOUGH COOKIE. I'm a professional and I hold my own in a pretty much male-dominated field. I can handle all the difficulties of being the mother of a severely handicapped child, seemingly with ease. I run a not-for-profit corporation aimed at raising funding to find a cure for my DS's disease. When I realized I had a problem with drugs/alcohol, I admitted myself to rehab, got clean, and never looked back. I seem to bounce back and recover from everything, pick up the pieces and just move on, making the very best of whatever the h#ll life throws my way. I guess I'm doing it in my marriage as well.
I don't think they're quite viewing H as "the victim;" moreso as the misunderstood but adoring husband and father. And as I said, he's never been anything less than 100% emotionally supportive (except in some minor instances when anyone could also fall short). He just seems to have this defect with physical boundaries.
I admit that I was so glad to have a break from caring for DS that I let myself become emotionally and physically involved with H again. Now, about 4 weeks later, I'm starting to have second thoughts - not because of anything he's said or done, but because I feel I'm not honoring my feelings and pain. I was just so worn down from caring for DS alone, all night long, and H needed a place to live and we didn't really even discuss it much. I was glad to have some relief. But now that I've had a few weeks break and I'm rested, I'm rethinking the whole mess.
Sorry, I'm sure what I'm rambling about makes little or sense, and that's exactly what's going on in my brain. My feelings, and plans, change from minute to minute. Thank God I love my work because it keeps me totally absorbed and away from obsessing about this freakin' mess. Thanks so much for your response. Love, Mo.
Hey Lori, thanks for your response. I see you are the CL of the substance abuse board, so you probably well understand some of the insanity that drives my thinking on a daily basis.
Do I love my H? Does it matter? I don't know. I've been in therapy for years, I'm medicated for bipolar disorder, I attend NA meetings 3 or 4 times a week. I get alot of emotional support. The problem is that my circumstances are so darned unique its difficult to find anyone with identification. I don't know how much of the nonsense that rattles around in my head is the bipolar/manic thinking, how much is my addict thinking, and how much is reality. And of course the therapists telling me that my H is a good guy with some issues doesn't help much.
I was also raised in an alcoholic family, which has left me with very little emotion, and if there's one emotion I almost NEVER feel it's anger. And if I do feel anger, it dissipates almost immediately. That's why its been so difficult for me to hang on to the anger I felt immediately after DH broke my son's arm.
I also think that alot of my support network senses exactly what you sensed in your post - that my life is overwhelming and I may have to take the gamble of allowing H to help me and try to trust that he is, as his and my therapist say, a good person with some issues.
It's a miserable place to be stuck - between a rock and a hard place. Thanks so much for responding. Love, Mo.
Hugs, Mo. I can only imagine what it is like to be in your shoes. You've been physically and emotionally exhausted. So here are a few thoughts from someone looking at the situation from the outside. What I would be most concerned about here is your husband's immaturity and lack of concern for your son's safety. It was incredibly irresponsible for your husband to cause your son's arm to be broken in the way you described and entirely preventable. I can see the argument for calling it an "accident", but to be so reckless with a physically challenged child borders on abuse IMO. But what really concerns me is that your husband wasn't adult enough to seek medical attention for your child who had to suffer for TWO days until you noticed the injury. I can't imagine a parent knowing his child had an injury and not seeking immediate medical attention, much less to keep quiet about the injury to cover his own behind... especially knowing the child can't speak up about it himself... That's downright cruel and I would consider it physical abuse.
So given his past behaviour, can you trust him to never be reckless with your child again? I know you are exhausted and need assistance, but if you can't trust that your child is safe with him, is his assistance worth the risk? And an even more disturbing thought - if he does "accidentally" injure your child again, would he conceal that injury too? I fear he would - last time you found out you kicked him out, so he would be afraid to volunteer that information knowing the consequences.
Wishing you the best.
-sang
Hi Mo…I’m so sorry I couldn’t respond to this yesterday. I work as the P.R. and Development person for my county’s domestic violence program and shelter and I had newspaper articles due to my boss for editing, so was pinched for time. I rarely get to post these days because of the time my job takes, but I do get to read the posts every week and have kept up with your story.
Mo…I really want you to reconsider some of the things you have talked about here. Your husband is a confirmed narcissist. He didn’t listen to you when you warned him of his rough treatment of P because he has an attitude of grandiosity and superiority and he thinks he knows better than you do. It really has nothing to do with HOW you spoke to him. It has to do with the fact that he thinks his way of thinking and doing things is superior and his lack of respect for what you think, not to mention the classic narcissist problem of contempt for any challenge, contradiction or confrontation on something he's doing. Your message to him was clear and made perfect sense to any normal human being, just not to a narcissist. Another reason he didn’t consider P’s needs or feelings is because he isn’t capable of the kind of empathy it takes to be willing and able to acknowledge or identify with your son’s needs or feelings. Or yours for that matter. He is never going to be able to do that in a healthy way, Mo, no matter how hard you try to convince him. It is part of his personality disorder. He isn't capable of it. Although his disorder is extremely complicated, the explanations for why he reacted to your pleas to treat P more carefully is really no more complicated than what I said above. Of course, your husband is on his nice kick being the perfect housemate just like he always does when you’re fed up with his behavior. I could go back in your posts over the past 2 or so years and cite where he’s done that repeatedly. But in the end he expects what he did to be forgiven and forgotten so he can continue on with his life of self-serving living. There isn’t a cure for narcissistic personality disorder. He is never going to be a normal person, Mo. It’s just not going to happen. This is where you’re fooling yourself. The guy might be learning a bit about what he can do to you and not do to you and get away with it, but he is never going to get beyond his traits of being interpersonally exploitative for his own means, grandiosity, superiority and lack of empathy. Bottom line, he is who he is and you’re going to have to decide whether you can live with it or not and stop putting so much focus on changing him because he’s never going to be the person he should be or the one you want him to be. (And have every right to expect him to be)
I also see you sweeping his past abusive behaviors under the rug trying to make him seem more attractive than he really is and, believe me; I can understand your desperation to end the depression you’ve been dealing with and the hardship his actions have put on you. But it would seriously be best for you to face the truth head on whether you get rid of him or not. The truth is that your husband has been highly abusive in the past. There were years of sexual exploitation you endured, years of tears you cried over it while he became angry because he didn’t believe you had anything to complain about and it was making him feel guilty which he didn’t think he should have to deal with. I recall he told you that YOU had the problem and suggested counseling because you weren’t agreeable of what he was doing. I recall your past descriptions of his behavior included yelling at you, demeaning and criticizing you, and badmouthing things that were important to you. I also recall you describing that you weren’t allowed to be upset and that if you were he either stuffed your feelings back down your throat or had a million reasons why you had nothing to be upset about. There’s also the constant chaos and anger you’ve dealt with nearly constantly. Just don’t slip into denial about who this man really is underneath the “playing nice to get back in” behavior. It’s not going to last. He is agreeable that your thinking and parenting skills are superior, but that’s not going to last either. It’s just not, because everything he does is, in the end, to serve himself. He doesn’t want to lose his family, which is something I see every day working in the field I’m in. Most abusers ARE “family men” who don’t want to lose their families. In the context of abuse, it’s really not impressive. It doesn’t make their thinking and actions any easier to deal with or any less painful.
I don’t think that your husband is a mean and evil person who intentionally broke your son’s elbow. But I certainly don’t believe that he is a “good” guy. His issues make him extremely self-centered and destructive towards others, yet the guy does have some good traits, and maybe enough of them that might make it worthwhile to put up with his crap. But “good”? My definition of a good person just doesn’t include people who don’t truly care about the all around well-being of others so I just can’t see any narcissist as “good”. What I do know is that your husband absolutely did intentionally throw your son around despite numerous warnings and pleas and he probably isn’t going to stop, nor will he stop leaving him unattended in the bathtub or putting him in way of the airbag or sending him down slides. Your husband and your son are both merely lucky that serious injury hasn’t happened before. What is most extremely appalling about what he did, in my opinion, is how he let your son suffer for 2 days with an injury. That really is just a horrible thing he did. I know the therapist said that it was because he was mortified by what he had done, but I don’t agree with that at all. The guy’s a narcissist and his main concern is about how he is affected, how he is inconvenienced and especially about how he looks to other people. Yeah, I believe, too, that he doesn’t really understand the harm he is putting DS in, but really, ignorance is no excuse and an “accident” like this really wasn’t much of an “accident” when he’s been told a million times to stop throwing the child around and any normal person would immediately be able to comprehend why instead of continuing to do it because they’re right and superior in intelligence or whatever. P is a vulnerable child and needs to be protected from your husband and his limited ability to grasp things that are just so obvious, ie. common sense. P has the right to safety, as you say, and dear old Dad just isn’t smart enough to handle that responsibility. Maybe, Mo, you might be able to afford some part time help to insure that your husband isn’t given too much responsibility where P is concerned. This could put your mind at ease and you’ll know that someone is watching when you can’t. Accepting that your husband isn't a capable caretaker for P might be difficult, but the writing is on the wall and has been for a long time. You just need to find a differnt way to solve the problem than trying to change a person into someone he's not.
To address other idiotic things your husband has said about how you handled this situation, I think you handled the situation quite well. In fact, it would be perfect if you were dealing with a person who truly had the capacity to understand the gravity of what he’s done and learn from the consequences of his actions, but he will block this too eventually as he does all his other selfish deeds. Please, Mo, listen to yourself above any idea of his because you’re a million times more intelligent than he is. When he spouts off about crap like this, let it go in one ear and out the other. A narcissist isn’t a person that any of us should be listening to when it comes to advice about people, emotions, care, trust, etc.. They don’t have a clue about those things. Honestly. You are smart. He isn't. I don't care what kinds of issues you have regarding bipolar or recovering addict. You have always been able to express yourself in intelligent ways and deep down, you know the drill. You've just got to trust yourself which you have a difficult time doing. But believe me, you are very trustworthy and need to start listening to your own intuition.
I understand if you choose to stay with him, and he might be able to learn enough about what you will take and not take to be tolerable, but please don’t fool yourself into believing that there is a cure for narcissistic personality disorder. There isn’t. He is who he is and he’s not going to change. Set your firm boundaries of what is acceptable and what is not, have your therapists back it up, and beyond that focus on yourself and what it takes to make you happy because, all in all, he isn’t going to be able to change his core and your happiness is going to be up to you. If you haven’t read the books “Why is it always about you?” or “Malignant Self-Love” those could help you to accept what you’re dealing with and stop the fruitless battle of trying to change who he is so you can focus on more important things. Like yourself and your kids.
I sincerely wish you the best, Mo. You deserve good things.
Thanks Sang and Sweetdreams for your heartfelt responses. Sometimes when I read my own crap I realize how sad it all really is.
One thing you both emphasized is the fact that he waited 2 full days before admitting what happened. I wasn't home when it happened, but when I got home H told me that DS was complaining about his arm and something silly happened and that DS was just being overly dramatic. All parents know that kids can be overly dramatic, right? So, okay, I let the whole thing go. DS's arm swelled upon on Monday and by Tuesday it was warm to the touch. By Tuesday I figured out that something more had gone on than H would admit, so I started pressing DS for details. DS, I think, was afraid to rat dad out. The whole story is so f'ed up.
Sweetdreams, I know I can't change a narcissist. I guess I'm looking for a way to feel okay about him - especially if I decide to stay here. Similar to all narcissists, he can be extremely charming and attentive when he needs to be and because I'm such a confused person, I fall for it every time. On the upside, he hasn't done any of the things that hurt me in the past so maybe he's capable of changing his actions, if not his feelings and inability to empathize. Does that make sense?; i.e. if I do XYZ, she'll be angry and I can't lose her, so I won't do XYZ anymore.
The problem, as I explained to his shrink, is how do I know what dangerous behaviors he'll engage in until he actually has, and I have a reason to confront him about it? Does that make sense? So okay, maybe he won't toss DS around anymore, maybe he won't leave DS unattended in the bathtub anymore, because we've had it out on those issues. But how do I know what other good ideas he'll have and act out on when I'm not around????
I was telling a friend the other day that what I really need is to have husband #2 lined up before I end this marriage, because I'm pretty certain I can't take care of DS alone. I'm not being sexist here, but DS weighs like 85 lbs. I'm just not physically strong enough to bathe him, carry him around when he needs to get out of his wheelchair, and change his diapers. Not only that, but DS is incapable of moving most of his body, so if he has an itch or needs his sleeves pulled up or down or anything like that, he has to call for me to do it.
I do have part-time help. She's with me 3 or 4 hours a day. This may sound crazy, but its not enough. I've been taking care of DS for 8 years and I'm just exhausted. He's a 24/7 job. And if you've ever seen the movie "Waterboy" with Adam Sandler, there's a line in there where he tells someone "I love my mama very much. Now you know that." DS rides around reciting this line. He adores his mama and he's got me wrapped around his finger. I can't bear the thought of not responding to his every need because the poor kid can't do anything for himself. So in some respects, I've created my own misery. I just adore the little guy so much.
I don't know, ladies. I'm doing my very best to hang in here but somedays its so darned tough. In the meantime, because it's just the type of person I am, I'm trying to make the best of everything. Yes, H is a narcissist but I focus on how successful that makes him in business. I try to enjoy our common interests; i.e there's a good football game on tonight and we both love football so we've been exchanging text messages all day making predictions about the score. We run together, so we bond there. We're trying to enjoy the new house and furnishing it. I love my job and get alot of satifaction out of helping my clients. Making lemonade, you know? Love, Mo.
Mo Big hugs your way!!!! Yes I am a community leader on substance abuse. I deal with depression and axiety. I understand about growing up in a home with drugs and alcohol, my mother was a drug abuser and scisoprenic I know I spelled that wrong. I grew up to be a people pleaser and swallow all my emotions. I am now in therapy for that. So yes I understand the stresses of having a mental disorder ( I only know a little about bipolar) and stuggling with an addiction. Honey it sounds like just taking care of your son is enough with out having to deal with your husband. My heart goes out to you. I wish I had a perfect answer but I don't . If you feel you can not trust this man then you should ask him to leave. Yes you may have to change your life style but isnt peace of mind worth it. I can tell by your post you love your son with all your heart. Maybe you should think what options you would have if you ask you hubby to leave. Now you mentioned about finding another man, do you have one in mind? Yours is a special situation, make sure if you bring another man into the mix he is the right man for you and your son.
I want you and your son to have the best in life including happiness. If you were to sell your home, could you find another one you can afford on your own? Could you cut down on work hours to care for your son? I can understand how getting help for 3 hours a day would not be enough. Do you think you could get help from a church? Maybe for times when you need to be out of the house? Lots of Love your way and feel free if you want to stop by the substance abuse board. Lori