His Vendictive and manipulative EX

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-22-2007
His Vendictive and manipulative EX
17
Tue, 05-22-2007 - 1:06pm

I'm writing this in order to 1. vent and 2. ask for advice

First the vent: I'll try to make this short. My new hubby's ex has for years has been unstable. By this I mean she has harrassed, stalked, threatened both of us. At its worse there has been police involvement. My husband has 'been allowed' to see his 2 children periodically. His ex refuses to follow their legal child agreement ( they have joint custody) He's not allowed to call the house to speak to his children, he can only use her cell which she shuts off or it goes to VM. He hasn't seen them in 3 months. Its now going before the courts again. We are struggling finacially as his ex gets MORE money in Spousal support , than what I make in a yr. She got their marital home, sold it and made a HUGE profit. Now lives with her 'fianace' who makes six figures. She is now asking for more money . Well heres where I ask for the advice part:

He pays her 'daycare fees' and 'extraordinary'...fees for extras the kids may need. BUT she DOESN"T work! never has. She also says she has no money. Here the kicker. Shes posted a profile on another website where she proceeds to tell the world what a terrible person

my husband is. She also tells the world that she's taking a trip with all the kids to the carribean to get married and is having a new house built in the fall. Do I show this to my husband? stress him out even more. Will he think i'm a nut case for even looking and finding this info on her? or do I forget about it even if possibly this info could be important in court?

I know I'm angry, hurt, even jealous that we have nothing and she waves her money in our faces ( she's told my husband that we're losers because we can't afford to put my children in lessons)
Thanks for listening...do I need a therapist? I'm just so angry

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-18-2003
Tue, 05-22-2007 - 1:15pm

I am wondering why you are focusing on her, and not your own marriage? Ignore her, and concentrate on your DH. Otherwise, your marriage will go down the tubes. Let the legal system get her. Ask your DH to get some counseling to figure out why he is being such a doormat to her, risking his marriage to you.

My advice is ignore her, period, and you and your DH put all your energy into reaching the goals you set out to. Set personal goals and goals as a couple, and then work together to reach them. For example, he is going back to court to be able to see the children. Good. Let him handle that. Maybe your personal goal is not to "stalk" her, by looking at her postings on the web. Maybe a goal as a couple would be to not allow anyone, including her, or especially her, control the way you feel about each other, or about the kids, or about anything. She has taken that power, because you have allowed her to. Make her of no importance.

Pam

Pam

The choices we make in thought, word and deed inevitably return to us in kind.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-22-2007
Tue, 05-22-2007 - 1:32pm
Hey Pam,
Your right. I HAVE in the past set goals for myself such as -I no longer listen to her long winded messeges, we no longer talk about her if we can help it...yes, I think I needed a wake up call.
I'm trying to do some soul searching about why I'm so concerned with her?..I admit I'm jealous and angry. But I do have to rise above it. Thanks-really...I'm going to shred this new info and stop obsessing.
I have so few friends to discuss things with ( we live in a remote area)I think this may be why I hold everything in and think 'too much'.
when you say- set goals as a couple, I like the sound od that...can you give me some examples? Do you mean, like financial goals? a trip? more time together?
Thanks again for the wake up call...
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-18-2003
Tue, 05-22-2007 - 2:01pm

Dang, I have meeting in a couple of minutes...

First of all a personal goal for you could be to find out what the root fear is to your anger and jealousy. Then you can rid yourself of the fear, and rid yourself of the anger and jealousy.

Goals for B and I were: To learn more patience, to gain more control over our lives. To make our marriage our number one priority. To always speak honestly, respectfully and compassionately with each other, even when we are "angry" about something. To make love on a regular schedule every week, and to not allow anything to interfere with that. The list goes on and one...

Pam

Pam

The choices we make in thought, word and deed inevitably return to us in kind.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-22-2007
Tue, 05-22-2007 - 2:30pm
thanks again Pam...really...i do appriciate that you've taken the time to write to me..
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-18-2003
Tue, 05-22-2007 - 7:38pm

Wow, I really feel for you! It sounds as if your DH's ex is a clone of my DH's EX. My DH's ex uses their kids to get back at him for the dumbest things. She follows the divorce decree when it is convenient for her. I think the woman is bi-polar in the way she switches moods.

Anyway, I have a hard time dealing with these situations because my EX is in NO way like that. In my own situation I've had to let DH deal with the EX and I hope that eventually he will grow tired of her evil ways and will stop taking her calls, stop trying to please her, etc. I suggest to you that you try, and I know how hard it is, to let your DH deal with his EX on his own. You can't be responsible for his happiness. Just try to take care of yourself and make yourself happy so you can be there for him when his EX goes into one of her insane state of minds!

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-22-2007
Wed, 05-23-2007 - 8:17am

smileann,
Thanks so much for your reply. It makes me feel not so alone. That i'm not the only person thats had to deal with this sort of thing. I do try to let my husband deal with her. I have REALLY worked at not letting her get to me ( us). I do think that she has some sort of mental health issues as she has really done some irrational things.Example:
My husband's weekend with the kids, we chose to go straight to our cottage, skip his daughters 30min dance practice. She followed us out of the school parking lot and the abusive cell phone calls started...demanding that we turn around and take their daughter to dance class..
Put herself,us, her children and HER own stepchild in danger by chasing us down the highway, ran a red light even, followed up for 50minutes.
She tried pulling the kids out the back of our car on the highway when we were stopped behind a school bus.
She left her 3 yr old stepdaughter in the back seat of the car on the highway when the above was happening.
Police were called as she was hysterical, her own kids crying in the backseat of our car! she proceeded to flirt with police asking them all kinds of personal questions ( police told us this) police said- "she doesn't get it" doesn't understand what she did wrong. she didn't even give a thought to her crying children in the back seat!
I could go on and on...telling about how she calls somedays 15 + times leaving numerous messeges for my husband , demanding she listen to her and do as she asks.

The worst part is she has money and control of the children. She talks badly about their dad...and me of course ( but I don't care about that) she buys them puppies, new clothes, trips to Disney ( 2 this yr ) amusement parks...the odd time we do get the children..we have no extra money at all to even take them to a movie or an ice cream out..we are completely broke. She has it all...anyway,
Thanks for listening and allowing me to vent, I get frustrated thats all..

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-20-2002
Wed, 05-23-2007 - 9:21am

"He pays her 'daycare fees' and 'extraordinary'...fees for extras the kids may need. BUT she DOESN"T work! never has. ""

"My husband has 'been allowed' to see his 2 children periodically. His ex refuses to follow their legal child agreement ( they have joint custody)"

Hi Wifeagain,

Do you feel as though your husband is ALLOWING exW to walk all over him and take advantage of him? It sure looks like it to me.

I agree with the others that its a waste of time to focus on what "she" has versus what "you" have, ...however....if DH is letting his life and his relationship with his own kids go down the tubes because of FEAR of the exW's actions, I think he needs to take a look at it and make some adjustments....

Is he court ordered to pay for "daycare fees" when she isnt working, or is it his "voluntary" decision? (e.g. she tells the kids and everyone else that "your dad doesnt care about you" when he doesnt do something like that)(Mine was paying that because she claimed she needed it in order to go "job hunting"...then never got any jobs, and didnt look too dang far, either...)

Does his visitation agreement stipulate the specific days/times of visitation, or just something like "reasonable visitation" that's supposed to be worked out between the two of them (but instead she uses as an extortion tool when he doesnt quickly agree to every other thing she wants..)

What went on with my DF/SO for the past 7 years since his divorce is that the exW is also very bitter and vindictive, and pushes his guilt buttons and gets him to do/pay for everything she wants...her chief MO is to make HIM miserable, has nothing to do with anything else. (as if making him miserable is somehow going to improve HER life...but I digress !!) The saddest part of it all,is that she is also mentally unstable enough with it all that she does these things without concern RE: effect on children's welfare, either.

The reason he went along with it for so long, is that if/when he didnt, she:

1. used visitation against him, "oh, they cant come that weekend, we have other plans" etc, (and since order just said "reasonable visitation" she could do that...she just made sure to always offer visitation on days that DIDNT work well for him...),

2. She would rage at him in front of the kids, and when he's not there, continue to tell the kids all terrible things about him, she'd tell them how he was hiding money that should be theirs to live on (not true), how he DIDNT want to see them (not true), etc etc....

And he lived his life for many years jumping through her hoops, figuring that if he DIDNT jump, he would have even LESS of a relationship with his children.

But even with all of his jumping, etc, she still has the adult daughter completely alienated from him, and she still has her primary MO as being "make dad's life miserable"....

Eventually, he went to court to get CS$ recalculated to actual incomes,and to get specific visitation schedule, so she couldnt use that to jerk him around with anymore (yea!!)

"She is now asking for more money ."

His does that also. Didnt get the memo that its based on his actual INCOME, not her pie in the sky DESIRES.

Anyhow, I'm just wondering if he should be looking at what he's doing and WHY...

IF he's doing what he's doing out of FEAR (e.g. she will alienate kids worse, she will cause him more problems with visitation), etc , he needs to face these fears and hire a good lawyer...because what happens is the kids get alienated ANYHOW....

THere are rules that can be put into place. An "amicable" relationship between ex spouses for the sake of the children is best, but in situations like this, that's NOT reality...and its best to just get everything SPECIFICALLY court ordered, and live with it like that. Forget about being "amicable" ...."civil" is all you need be. Have the visitation dates and phone contact set by court order (ask for specific days/times she is to have kids call dad weekly), have CS$ set by court ( should be based on actual incomes...I'm told spousal support can vary based on "total household" income), and then he just follows court order. And you tell the kids that what he does is based on court order, not parents decision.

I also personally believe its importatnt to stand up for dad in front of kids...normally, kids should NOT be engaged in this type of conversation...but when youhave ONE parent clearly and blatantly alienting kids from the other (.e.g. telling them negative things about dad incessantly) I think it is IMPORTANT to be sure they have the WHOLE story....
...what happened here, is DF/SO had spent over 5 years paying DOUBLE the amount of child support $ FOC would calculate based on his income (lived with his mom, and then me in order to do it...couldnt even afford his own apt or buying anything for himself in order to make these payments to mom )....MEANWHILE mom continually told kids what a SOB their dad was, and how they had no money because dad wouldnt give them any (meanwhile she didnt work at all...)...so one day, in passing, I said something in front of 11SS about dad paying child support to mom, and 11SS looked up at me with big incredulous eyes and said, "My dad pays child support??".......HE HAD NO CLUE!!! His world/beliefs of dad were heavily shaped by what exW/mom had been telling him....

So, (off my soap box now) I DO think its important for dad to stand up for himself..

He is entitled to have visitation with his kids that is not screwed with.

He is entitled to have $$ to her based on his actual income/financial status, not her whims.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-22-2007
Wed, 05-23-2007 - 10:05am
Laurena82,
Thankls so much for your reply!! both these women must have been hatched out of the same rotten egg! You certainly seem to fully understand what I'm going through as what you describe is EXACTLY whats happening to us. EVERYTHING you've mentioned is currently happening here!
We do have a lawyer and this is going to court AGAIN...for a second time. she just doesn't think that the law applies to her...this time around the agreement will be tighened up to secure his visitation and contact with his children..also , like you said...proportion to income...HELLO?? that means no more $$...My husband has 17$ left after every pay cheque b/c EVERYTHING goes to her..he pays a HUGE amount of money. The babysitting fees will be dropped and his lawyer will fight to have her spousal support lowered too..
She has told him.."go ahead take me to court, I have all your money, good luck buddy"
so as you see , and I know you understand..this is just to try and break his balls.
AND..yes, the sad part is : that even though she's always up on a soap box telling anyone who will listen, what a great mother she is and what a jerk my husband is..its the children who suffer..maybe they don't see it now...but later on , when they're older..they'll se the other side. That they're dad is a caring, loving father who tried everything in his power to see his children , who has paid and gave everything he's got
to them...that he's not a jerk..she has manipulated the kids...and YES, they didn't know about the all the money he's been paying until we told them...they too were surprised.
She is a bully and HAS bullied my husband..he's getting better..but I too am furious at times that he gives in to her...you'd never see her comprimise or be reasonable.
She too has made plans for the children , tells the children about those plans, then calls my husband last to tell him its a no go for his visitation...when he protests, she says.." go ahead tell them they can't go, you be the a**H*** that dissapoints your children"
ok, I'll stop now...again, thanks for listening...I know I'm not the only one out there, gives me some comfort.
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-18-2003
Wed, 05-23-2007 - 1:13pm

I was reading your's and Laurena's posts, and I was thinking about B's ex. She would be described as unstable, stalking, etc., etc...Truth of the matter was, she actually had a breakdown when he left her. It was an untreated breakdown, because she felt anything she did was valid, not the result of her traumatic stress disorder, which was in fact in place for a long time.

Her first marriage was to a physical abuser. Her first child with Bob died at 9 months. She immediately got pregnant again, and was bedridden and at that point he cheated for the first time. During their 25 year marriage he had at least four affairs, all of which she "forgave" and took him back. The fifth time he didn't go back, and she became unglued. She did most of the things you have described.

My point being, when I found out how sad and dysfunctional she had been all along, I found a strong compassion in my heart for her. B was no saint, and he needed help to deal with his own guilt and shame. Fortunately, he told me all the good, bad and ugly about himself, and he sought help, as did I.

I am just saying that when a person feels she has been desperately wronged, for any reason, then she will strike out in any way she can and will get away with. If these men are giving into such dysfunctional behavior that will damage their own children (this was the kicker for B), then they need to deal with their guilt and shame, instead of avoiding it. Broken marriages are not onesided deals. There are "faults" on both sides. One of the "two" needs to be aware of this and make some changes. Otherwise, nothing will change at all, and that's what you will have to look forward to.

It just sounds like she is acting out, because she feels he "wronged" her in some way and she deserves to get what she can. Truth be told, he did, and they both wronged each other in some way, only a counselor may unravel that. Maybe it was neglect of some sort, maybe it was not putting the marriage first. Maybe it was just being incapable of connection. You want to know, because you don't want the same things to happen to you. He should want to know, so he can get off the hamster wheel with his ex, and build a life with you. His ex should because she is hurting her children, but chances are she doesn't know that, or realize what she is doing. She is blinded by her own "rightness".

Pam

Pam

The choices we make in thought, word and deed inevitably return to us in kind.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-22-2007
Wed, 05-23-2007 - 1:43pm
I understand all about tramatic stress disorder and abusive relationships, I work as a crisis counsellor and see many woman who have endured and survived horrific abuse . I can certainly understand that people react to trauma in different ways and may not know themselves when they need help. They can sometimes feel they are justified in their actions. I have empathy.
Yes, there are always 2 sides to a story when a marriage ends. I too am divorced and I also know that my husband( no one) is a saint. What I have a problem with is a woman who does not take responsibility for her own actions and behaviour...yes, sometimes its because she too far deep in pain...but .... vendictive , abusive , manipulative and hurtful behaviour should never be tolerated under any circumstances. To excuse such behaviour puts others at risk and encourages more of the same.
I have tried to be polite and I've never been rude to this woman but I will not tolerate abuse , not to myself or my children. My husband now feels the same way. They was a time when I think he felt guilty for leaving her, felt guilty that his marriage failed b/c of whatever part he played in its breakdown. That was many years ago. We are married now and she is engaged to be married. Time to move on!
'Acting out'because you feel you have been wronged is immature, abusive and can land you in jail.
I have a great deal of compassion for anyone who has survived a divorce or been threw truma . Even his Ex. I tried talking to her. Told her I'll never , ever, try to re-place her as a mother, that I respect her as their mother, have never badmouthed her. In fact, I've told the children several times what a nice mommy they have to take them to the movies...etc.. I didn't get the same respect. Not surprising if I'm seen as a threat or whatever..I tried.
I will continue to be polite but I have set very clear bounderies for her. I'm not a doormat or pushover.

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