another venting session

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-01-2005
another venting session
5
Tue, 05-17-2005 - 10:08pm

Oivay. My ex is a thorn in my side. He called me again tonight. I didn't answer the phone--this time I recognized the number and knew what NOT to do--but I definitely gripped it in my hot little trembling hand and stared it down. He wants to help me out with my apartment/hang out this weekend. UGH. I'm of two minds about this. First, yes, I'm stoked that he's still thinking about me and wanting to be in my life blah blah blah. Because I'm a fool and I'm still madly in love with him. But then, him contacting me and wanting to be my friend makes me go a bit loony. Because I'm a fool and still madly in love with him. Yes, I want him in my life, of course--you know, that pesky love thing--but to have him, the man that I decided I could spend the rest of my life with (this coming from the commitment-phobe), as a friend and watch as he dates, has sex with and/or falls in love with another woman???? OMG talk about pure torture.

And I seriously just don't think he gets it. In his mind, we can be "friends," and it's all cool, as long as neither of us brings up our love lives. Um...what? No. No, no, no. Maybe that's fine for him, because he was never in love with me, but good lord it's not fine for me at all. I know that if I saw him he would think that I'm fine...but when he leaves I would fall apart. Because he's not mine anymore. Because I love him fiercely and want to be able to love him freely. Because I'm still grieving the loss of him. Because even if we are "friends" now, it's only a paltry excuse for a real friendship--I mean, hello, in order to be friends we would have to omit a huge part of our lives?? That's not a real friendship by any stretch of the imagination. I've never held back with him, and I'm sure as hell not going to be able to start now.

I've spent the last month, specifically the last 3 weeks, sobbing my eyeballs out just about every single night b/c of how much I struggle with this. And we've been broken up for going on 4 months now!!! He has, quite literally, left me gasping for air. I've grown and changed so much, but still I am blown away by this love for him, and the pain I'm in not being able to share that love with him. He drives me insane. He loves me, but he's not in love with me...he dumps me, but "wants me in his life forever because I'm his best friend and we connect like he's never connected with anyone before"...

blegh.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-22-2005
Tue, 05-17-2005 - 11:16pm

I'm sorry you are going through this - I know it hurts like hell.

"he wants me in his life forever because I'm his best friend and we connect like he's never connected with anyone before"...

My ex said EXACTLY the same thing the last time we broke up. They don't want us, but they can't let go. Unfortunately, it just keeps us hanging on, prolonging the pain.

I tried to be friends with my ex the last time because he insisted he wanted to be in my life and it tore me apart for 8 months, until we got back together. As much as it is killing me, I am not going to do that this time. Listen to the advice on this board - people who have been there. That's what I am trying to do - as much as I want to talk to him, I am sticking to the no contact rule until I have truly moved on. I believe it WILL get better, and it will for you too.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-01-2005
Tue, 05-17-2005 - 11:36pm
I'm 19 days "clean" of no contact. almost 3 weeks. he has yet to provide the "better email" he said he would send after his move. that was 3 weeks ago. do I keep checking the computer every day wondering if today is the day? yes, of course. will I always? no, most certainly not.
NO contact is hard to do but my dignity is intact right now and that feels good to me at a time when most everything else feels sad.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-08-2004
Wed, 05-18-2005 - 12:23am

eeyore,

STAY STRONG!!

several items id like to comment on...

(1) my ex and i originally broke up last may and for a few months, i remained friends with him...and you know what?? IT TORE ME UP!! my ex was adamant about keeping me in his life, and didnt see a problem with being friends at all... we'd spend time together and id act like i was fine - but as soon as he was out of sight, id CRUMBLE into a zillion little broken pieces... this went on for a few months until i could not handle it anymore and i snapped and called NC...and thank god i did too because a few weeks after that, he started dating someone ... and i would NOT have wanted to be in his life in any shape or form to witness that!! ... SO... with all that said, lesson is - ONE CANNOT BE FRIENDS WITH AN EX IF THE FEELINGS ARE STILL THERE!

(2) 4 months is really not that much .. i dont know how long you dated him for, but according to charlotte from sex and the city - the time required to get over an ex is half the length of dating ;) lol .. but aside from that, there really is no given time frame and its different for every individual and relationship...when my ex and i broke up last may - i didnt stop bawling my eyes out every day until sometime around september?? and even in december - i was STILL "getting over him"... by then, my life returned to normalcy BUT my head still pined over him and my heart still longed for him... so, in sum - four months is really not much at all in comparison to how strongly you feel for him ... so unfortunately, (for us both) - this is not going to be a one week process.... but do continue to hang tight because from personal experience (and even though i have trouble accepting this right now!) - but it DOES eventually get better... it HAS to.

(3)im glad and proud that you know on an intelligent and logical level that you cannot maintain contact or any form of a friendship with him... STICK WITH THAT. this, i know - is realllly hard to do... on a logical level, i understand my breakup with my ex - but on an emotional level, im at a complete loss! and its soooo hard to listen to our heads when our hearts just beat SO profoundly... apparently, my ex is fabulous at accomplishing this and i envy his ability to process logically rather than emotionally! but - youve hung in there so far, and really - you are a STRONG woman ... stick with it!!

(4) and yes, hes still thinking about you and still wants you in his life... my ex too is still thinking about me apparently (as he told my girlfriend how he misses me the other day - GRR) ... but that still doesnt chalk up to him wanting to BE with you... and although im not that big a fan of the book, but "hes not that into you" clearly states this and they are right... if hes not WITH us like THAT - then we shouldnt settle for anything less... its TRUE!

as hard as this has been for you, - i really do hope though that you know how great youve been so far... despite your weak moments - youve been sooo strong and you really should be proud of that. i know this whole thing just SUCKS - believe me i know!! - but i guess... we just gotta ride through the rough waves until our coasts are clear...however long that may take!! but, at some point - we will become whole again .. we have to... at one point, our bodies just physically give up being so down...its just suddenly runs out of tears to cry, and we begin the climb uphill again ... (ive felt it before, so i know that DOES happen!) ...

((((HUGS))))
eeksj

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-18-2005
Wed, 05-18-2005 - 10:52am

Suggestion:

Own your feelings, and accept your needs/wants/desires and feelings as being your responsibliity to control, determine and utilize for your own well-being.

Long before you two broke up - he knew you weren't "the one" - he went along with the kissing, hugging, sex, interaction, conversation as if there was "nothing wrong' - trying to get the feelings back. But feelings aren't facts, goals, calls to action -nd what caused them to fade on his side is HE DOES NOT WANT A RELATIONSHIP. (this has NOTHING to do "with you").

So the feelings faded once the fun, excitement, options, and positive aaspects were equalled by responsibility, requirement and sacrifice.

So now you have a "balanced" scale.......the "feelings" being around and with you and in the "relationship" (again, nothing to do with YOU) inspired.....are now quid pro quo with the obligations, duties, responsiiblities and sacrifices that being "with you in a relationship" required of him.

the "feelings" determined his actions.....becuase they were always determining his action.

So feelings faded....he broke up and has moved on.

Now....in some post you said he's very proud and protective of the "fact" that he remains on good terms iwth the ex's. First, do you have that as first hand knowledge where you've seen him and a few of his ex's interact -in equality based, mutually beneficial and desired ways. Or, are you hearing from him "I'm such a good guy, always offering to do, help, assist and provide - I'm always "friends" with my ex's." And yet to date - you see no "ex's" wanting his friendship, or his alliance, or assistance or input no matter how often it is offfered or how hard it is pressed on them?

IF what you've witnessed is him and a few ex's being more than cordial and civil, actually being involved and interactive on an equality based, mutually desired and respectful level - then what you have witnessed is this.

WHEN...WHEN...WHEN....both of those individuals got to the point that "I wnt YOU in my life as a partner" was past - by taking personal responsiblity for feelings, goals, actions, and involvements - the stepping back went from "I'm so delighted to be your partner".....and it took itself to the base level - where it always was.....and now cannot go beyond. "I like, admire, respect, and accept you as a person, your character is stellar, your values superb, it is a privilege and honor t be affiliated with you because we share so much existentially - INCLUDING THE DESIRE NOT TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH ONE ANOTHER."

If all you've got his statement that he's always making offers......and like in your case, you've told him that being in contact and aligned is NOT in your best interests as you see it and that you're hard pressed to not "cave" when he calls.....here's what you're seeing.

This guy LOVES ADORATION. That's it....the main crux of your relationship revolved around the fact you worshipped and adored him and while that was stronger as a feeling than obligation and responsibliity was a fact...he was all about you. And now you've told him that your best interests don't include involvement with him at this time. Rather than respect that - out of respect for you - he's continuing to "offer" because you knows that you're emotionally driven and "cave" into your feelings and allow his offers to be utilized. And that keeps him in proxiimty to your adoration and worship of him, along with the evidence that you "long" for him and he's not available ot you - and he goes home with TONS of warm fuzzies emotionally on an unhealthy premise - based on a lack of self-esteem on his part.

In short, he's subbing in self-confidence for self-esteem. Self-esteem is SELF generated and it has SELF at the helm. It means that you do at all times what is within your values and boundaries, what is required of your preservation of character and integrity. IT's NOT a "I'm out for me at all costs" - It's "I'm looking out for me at all times" - I do not want ot lose my respect, admiration, trust, and acceptance of myself at the core level with any action, word, decision, or alliance I make or take.

But self-confidence is what you get when people from every sector "adore, admire, applaud, approve of, and desire you" - it doesn't matter if it's becuase of looks, wealth, talent, offers, or whatever - it's just a throng of people that admire, applaud, desire inclusiona nd alliance on whatever terms they can get. That chorus of "you're the greatest" is sung to the rafters and it inspires this person without self-esteem to believe "as long as i"m around people that admire, adore, fawn, and applaud I truly am okay"....and so they seek those alliances and situations repeatedly -w ith no realization that without self-generated approval - they're lost.

So, you own your feelings and needs and wants....and realistically you WANT a partner in life that shares your definition of partnership. For a long time you interacted with him holding him against those guidelines and he appeared to measure up - so you investedmore of your "future" in him. You envisioned, and included him in your plans and hopes and dreams.

Now, he's saying "I donn't want to be the provider, the nurturer, the guidance source, the partner - I just want "inclusion" in some way".

Great, include him when you're good and ready. When you're needs/wants/desires/life/lifestyle - are at a place where "he" as an individual is nothing unless youadmire and respect his character and his standards - without wnating to "adhere" to them out of "I want a relationship" or "you're my hero, I want to be like you".

And you tell him that - and then YOU live up to it...and if he continues to contact and affiliate.....here's what it tells you.

That what you want and need, your feelings and your well-being were NEVER what he thought about. Everything he ever did that gratified or pleased you was because of your intepreatation of it......and it was simply him doing whatever he wnated - basedon your response to him, and his feelings as a result of your response. So he's self-absorbed, self-centered, immature, emotionally driven, and unavailable - in which case, you won't need his friendship at any point.

If he does respect your request....and doesn't ocntact you overmuch except with notices of personal accomplishment (say he runs a marathon, or gets a huge promotion, or is transferred to Europe and as a friend he wants you to be "aware" - that's fine).....then you'll know that he does respect you as a person, he's honoring your request based on your self-awareness and responsibility towards your needs and well-being, and he is simply keeping you abreast of his life so that when you want inclusion as a "friend" - you know the door is open - but YOU are going to have to walk thru that door when YOU are good and ready.

Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-01-2005
Thu, 05-19-2005 - 12:37am

Quickblade--

Interesting...I think, strangely enough, that my ex is a mix of the two opposites that you described. I can definitely see both of those pathologies in his personality and in the way he acts. I've suspected for some time now that a part (not all, but definitely a part) of why he wants to keep me around is because I'm one of his biggest cheerleaders. I'm also one of his toughest critics though, too, so it balances itself out. I was never "all admiring." When he was being a jerk I told him so. But anyway, I have a feeling that at some level he has low self-confidence...that's probably one of the reasons why he kept the other ex around too--the one who pursued him during out relationship. She had originally ditched him to get engaged to the guy she was dating while she was with the ex, and burned him pretty bad, and I'm sure his ego was stroked by her attentions. Too bad he wasn't thinking of me and how I would feel about any of that though. If he's gone back to her, which I suspect he has, that "being adored" thing probably has a lot to do with it--she's the same way. Rats seek their own kind, don't they...

At the same time though, he does have a great heart, and strong values and standards that he holds himself to, which drive this whole "be available if they need it at any point ever" thing. He has always said, in relation to everything in his life, that he never wants to do or say or act any way that he regrets...that would be "below who he is," if you will. I know he cares about me so much more than just "loving being loved," but...well..oh well.

As for myself, I have indeed already hit the lowest of the low in my grieving process and am beginning to claw my way up out of the pit. I know that these last few weeks of intense crying and grieving have been my "implosion" weeks, where I finally have let reality sink all the way in and am letting myself feel it all 120%. I gave up trying to control my feelings, as the only thing that I can control is how I act, and I'm just...well, I'm owning them, as you said. I've determined that what I really and truly want is more than what he can give me at this time (or ever give me, really). I'm more than okay with the occasional "friendly" email (i've initiated one of those in the past few weeks, in fact, just to let him know what's going on re: me moving/graduating and so forth) but I'm not okay with having him deep in my life without him as my partner in life. I wish in my heart that it could be otherwise...I love him so much, beyond being in love with him, that it kills me to just let it go. He really and truly is one of my dearest friends, and that's not a title that I bestow upon ANYONE lightly. But, it's what's best for me right now. I can't pretend anymore. I don't want to be emotionally available and open to him anymore. And it's not just for myself either--I know that if I saw him everything that I feel would just be "out there" whether or not I say anything or act on them, because (1) I have no poker face and (2) he just knows me too well. That he's probably with the skank-ho again--heck, that he's not with me--makes me quite unhappy, and he doesn't need or deserve the guilt or hurt which will inevitably stem from our meeting when he is absolutely entitled to do whatever (or whomever) he wants to. I respect him, and thus I must respect his choice, whether I like it or not. But I too must make a choice...and I choose not to be around while he finds someone else.

So...yeah. I emailed him "got your call. too busy this weekend. maybe some other time." today, just so I didn't leave him hanging. Normally I would've stated all of my reasons (see above) but it's just not worth it to me right now. I don't want him to know anything about me anymore other than what practical tidbits of general information I don't mind shelling out to whomever (i.e. that I'm moving, blah blah). No, that's not quite right, I do *want* him to know...I want to share everything with him...I want to be able to tell him about these guys I'm dating, and how that's making me feel & how nervous I am about dating again, and how my ED therapy is going, my stress w/school & job hunting, see how his job is going, what changes are happening in his life and gossip with him about who he's dating, how things w/the toxic sow (though I wouldn't call her that necessarily) are going if they're going at all, chit chat about world events, religion, politics, our favorite sex-advice column, new recipes we've discovered....but none of that is possible, b/c at the end of the day, after all that, I still want to take him home with me, know that he's mine and mine alone and be his forever and ever again. So, I'll stick with the alternative of just keeping him at absolute arms length and just let all those desires just be while I learn to accept that "we," aren't.




Edited 5/19/2005 1:03 am ET ET by eeyore_2436