Help me please ladies.Need advice(long)
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| Fri, 12-17-2004 - 8:37pm |
Hi there I recently had a 7 yr relationship end. My ex, lets call her Y left me after cheating on me and seeing him behind my back for a month. She is with him now still and this is a month later. We had problems but nothing that would have prepared me for this and I was offering to go see her counselor with her all the time. She never took me up on offer but talked to counselor about leaving me and asking for advice. Then when I found out she was cheating she takes me to the counselor to get the counselor to help her with telling me it's over.
First of all I wasn't a good boyfriend and made mistakes that I could never see before for whatever reason. Mistakes I have been making w/ not just her but male friends as well and she figured I would never "get it" as she puts it. Well the day we went to the counselor so she could get through to me that Y was leaving me, I was still my condescending know it all self in the office. Then when we left the office of the counselor, Y goes to grab my arm. She pulls back and I say "go ahead I don't care if her window is right there take my arm if you want to". She does but by then we are beyond the view from that window. We go to my house and lay in bed and cry together, hug, kiss and laugh even. She had 2 more doctors appointments to go on and I say hey if your coming back I will get Chinese food (from our favorite place) for us. She agrees and I thought I was a jerk in the counselors office so I write out a thank you card and deliver it to the counselor through the mail slot (closed for day). As I drive home I have an epipheny and all of a sudden I see things completely different than I had at any time previously. Just believe me it was weird because I never believed peole had them or any kind of life altering thing like that happen. I always thought it was fake or whatever. So she comes back and I tell her things that I had done (nothing physical more like neglect etc.) and how I now viewed them. We went through a bunch of things and she cried and said "now you get it.". We ate Chinese food, kissed, cried, hugged, laughed and had sex a few times. We were like we were when we met. I had lost myself but this epiphany had given me myself back and we had a blast.
Then it got pretty late and I knew she was expected by the new guy and being polite I asked if she needed to call him (see I knew I had made mistakes and wasn't going to force things). So I say I will leave the room you call. She calls I come back in and his phone is busy and she says he must be talking to her best friend V. She calls her friend and tells her to get off the phone and let her call him. She does and says whatever she says and I come back in room. We have sex but not like earlier in the day she is more distant. I finally walk her to her car @ 1:30 am and ask her if she is workinh in the morning. She says she is. She has been in big trouble at work for calling in sick and being late so I told her to go do your job the way I know you can and show them your back on track. So we kiss goodbye and the next morning I go to the florist and send her a dozen roses. The florist calls me and says they can't deliver them because Y called in sick. I get hurt and mad and call her cell phone. He answers and after I ask for her a pause and then he tells me she isn't available.
A couple weeks go by (I had been trying to call her and message her and been emailing her etc. and got only replies saying we were over). She calls me in the morning early a few times so I know she just left his place. He lives about 60 minles from where we do and her work. So one night at about 12:00 midnight she calls and says meet her at the store b my house because she is on her way home and needs milk. My store is not close to her way home at all. I take that as a good sign and meet her ther. We chat and she decides she is hungry lets go to Del Taco for food and we drive in seperate cars the 3 blocks to Del Taco. She gets in my car to go through the drive through and first thing out of her mouth is "This is last time I see you I can't do this again". I was dumbfounded. I was like well I didn't call you, you called me etc. She leaves after we eat and I don't hear from her for a few days then she comes by to say hi and we had just a peck for a kiss because she is seeing him full time and exclusive. I tell her see us both I just want a chance to show you what I am again and that I am the guy you fell in love with 7 yrs ago. She says I can't do that to him. I say well you did it to me? She gets mad and drives away once again saying she can't do this anymore.
After another few days she stops by and we kiss and that night she calls me from his house and says "Goodnight girl (pretending I am her friend V)and I will see you tomorrow. She calls me in the morning and we talk and agree to see eachother that night. She calls back 5 mins later and I don't answer and I get a message how she is jealous and knows I am with someone else and that's why I didn't answer the call. I was at lunch with a friend that is female but just friends. So the next night she comes over and I have the room lit with candles and I made a special cd with Usher songs all soft and nice that reminded me of us. She cries and says i had never dne this when we were together (I did but early on before I changed). We make love 3 times this night and once more in the morning. She says she is going to her friends and will come by later. I ask who the guy is because it seemed weird he would talk to her best friend the night we broke up. It turns out he is V's (her best friend)cousin (I knew it). Ok no worries I just want a chance for her to see the real Drew again the one she fell in love with and let her decide if I am worthy or whatever. She says her counselor tells her what I have been saying that she is running from her feelings for me and getting involved to fast with this new guy. She spends the night there 6 nights out of the week. So she tells me she told him they were to see other people and he was hurt bad by this.
Well she comes over that night after being with her friend and the guy because it was one of his parents 50th birthday party where she was. She says even though she was with him she was thinking of me. He had asked her to come down to his house and spend the night but she wanted to see me and had promised me she would. We, you guessed it had sex again and in the morning went to breakfast at Denny's and had a blast. This was Monday morning and she goes to work. I find out I have a job offer in Texas and I am thinking I may take it for a number of reasons. I send her email telling her and she cries at work and leaves work at 10:00 am. stays with me all day and we, you guessed it have sex a bunch. Then in the evening says she needs some Y time alone and I need to think anyway so leaves. In the morning she calls she is off for the day and she tells me that she has talked to her mom and counselor and they told her not to be selfish to let me go and not see me because she is being selfish. I tell her well I decided not to take the offer anyway. Well she said that she had even asked her mom if I moved and she went with me would she be mad (her mom and I had a fight 2 yrs ago and I was taboo). Well that was huge for her to even tell her mom she was still seeing me let alone may move with me, huge! She decided not too but now it shouldn't matter I am staying. She has become more standofish and only pecks when I see her. Says it's too hard to control herself if she kisses me. But I can tell she is exclusive with this guy once again and can't cheat (even though she did cheat on me w/him).
So I don't push it and she comes by and only pecks me and then one day says as she is leaving "I don't know when I will see you again but I am not putting any limits on things. No limits!" then drives away. The next day she calls me to make dinner for her and stops by eats and makes an excuse up of where she has to be and goes to his place (I know believe me). I call her and say something petty and she won't talk to me anymore.It's like I blew it but before I did that she had commited to him again and then saw me and couldn't resist finally telling me, "No limits!".
It's been a week now and she has sent me one email and it wasn't nice. I have sent her a couple emails but nothing more and that is where we stand. Someone please let me know what is up with this girl and me. I think or reather, I know if this guy wasn't a relative of her best friend we would have our second chance and it would be fine. She said when we first broke up that if she got back with me it would be her and I against the world and she isn't strong enough for that right now. Is this about the guy being a relative of her best friend? Well when she said this her mom and I hadn't shown we could work things out either and now we have. The guy is a bozo but does have more money than I do. I left her a message and said I saw them out together and he was a dork. Her reply in text was, "Dork or not he has me. You had my heart and broke it, it can't be fixed!" I take that as confirmatrion he is a dork lol.
We are in a fight now and don't talk. She sent mean email after I had been emailing her friend in reply to her emailing me saying she was sorry but wanted to stay out of things. She only wants her friend to be happuy. My reply was basically short term happiness isn't always in your friends best interest and will actually probably slow down her search for true happiness and inner peace. That's why I got the mean email. Because I was lecturing her frined lol. I was and wrong but whatever. She tells me she cheated, she lied, she hur tme and to GET OVER IT AND GROW UP! Nice email huh?
What do I do what do her actions tell you and what do you think she feels for me. She tells me she loves me. She used to say we weren't compatible but I asked after the few days I had a chance to see her and we had fun and her response was that we are compatible no doubt about it. She also said I was the best in bed ever! and she meant it. She won't give compliments to make someone feel good for whatever reason. She used to come home from work all pissy and take it out on me. I would tell her that isn't right she should be nice to me if I aks how her day was and want to kiss he. She would say "I am not in a good mood and shouldn't have to pretend I am", wow whatever.
I have made the changes for sure and she knows it. What happened when I had the Texas offer and she decided to cut me loose and devote herself to him again? Was it me leaving? Was it he was upset with her seeing other people and gave her an ultimatum to be exclusive again? Did he pretend he was ok with it and she worried she would lose him if she saw me again? She says she told him she was with me both the night we broke up and the weekend we had together.
I need advice please someone help me. She is confused and trying to bury her feelings for me. She has said things to everyone about me and thinks that it would be harder to give me a chance. She doesn't want to hurt this guy and especially since her best friend is a relative and she is close with her family. Her mom showed her that she and I could get along again and that was huge for me. We respect each other, her mom and I, so we could get along. Whats my play? Ignore her for a while because guilt and missing me will help me or will it bury me? There are other things I had to leave out or this would have become a novel and not just the short story it has become. She has feelings for me and saysd it hurts too much to talk with me. Well why when she knows I changed and can be the man I was when we met would she run from her feelings for me? 7 yrs and no chance, ever? Will I get one? What the hell? Why the last email. I hadnt called her in a week and she had to get involved when her friend emailed me, why? Wouldn't she have just ignored it and told her friend to do the same if she really had moved on and gotten over me? She says she hurts as much as I do. How is that possible she is with him most every night and she left me for him? That is not possible and hurts that she could say it let alone believe it. She says she loves me and always will? What is that? Just a little advice from the opposite sex is all I am after.
Please forgive any typos or spelling and grammatical errors. I am out of time and can't go through it right now. Thanks........
Thanks in advance for any replies,
Drew
Edited 12/17/2004 9:25 pm ET ET by drewcla

I think you better off without her.
She is obviously lost and not sure with whom she wants to be.
There is plenty of fish in the sea you will meet someone else and hopefully you still expect to have more than 7 years to live so you can beat the old relationship with a new more successful one.
I say instead of giving her your time and your emotions and energy, focus on sthg you have control over. Like work or study or meeting new friends and new GF hopefully.
It is enough hurt from her. now you should look for peace you deserve!
You really just need to move on. She cheated on you with him, then cheated on him with you, then cheated on you again with him. You two were together 7 years. That's a long time. And through most of it you admittedly were an ass. Your epipheny came to little too late. With you she's got familiarity, history, and now you've suddenly become the man she wished you'd have been those seven years she held on while you treated her like crap. That's pulling at her heart and second guessing her head. But she's also got this other guy who is surly telling her not to give you a second chance, that you had 7 years to have a second chance, and that he'll never treat her the way you did and blah blah blah. So there she is stuck in the middle. Her past pulling on one side(you), and her future pulling on the other(him).
And don't forget that in the back of her mind she's wondering when the real you will come back. She's thinking, and has probably been told, that the only reason you've "changed" is because this time you actually think you're going to lose her, and if she goes back to you, you'll eventually drop the act and be the jerk they've consoled her about for the better part of the last 7 years. Whereas this new guy is a blank slate. And the added bonus of being her Best's cousin. She has feelings for you, you fill up her memories and the hurt of you pre-epipheny is still fresh. Now you are being the man she wanted you to be, and it's hard for her to make a clean break from you, hense the sex filled weakness. But the big thing you need to recognise is she is TRYING TO LEAVE YOU.
Forget what she says, look at what she does. She is trying to move on. She may slip and come back to your bed on occasion, but she always leaves again. You need to take your epipheny and move on. This relationship is too tainted by past hurts. Move on to a new relationship and be the man you should have been with Y.
Drew,
I played the same game that your "friend" is playing, and I realized that it was unhealthy.
The excitement of having someone doggedly pursue me; manipulating him for my own, cheap thrills; the rebound sex (with someone I know, lucky me); the naughtiness of getting away with something truly evil; the drama I could share in my own, selfish mind were all thrilling. But, I did not like the person I was becoming.
At first, I blamed him because "he asked for it." If I was able to manipulate him, the better. The more desperate he became because of my mind games, the less I thought of him. The worse I thought of him, the better I felt (temporarily) about myself. When I was in an emotional slump, the chicanery would begin again. I wasn't getting hurt, and who cares about him?
Or, so I thought. If I were to have met a woman like myself in the streets, I would have slapped her. My punishment was having to face myself in the mirror instead, and not liking it. I believe in the Golden Rule (Do unto others as they would do unto you). Yet here I was, behaving like a wretch.
It was not fair what I had done to him. I could not face that I ended the relationship. I said I didn't want him anymore, but I lowered myself to using and abusing him because of my own insecurities.
I am not sharing this with you to rub salt on your wounds. Seven years is a long time to make your life with someone. That is most likely why she can positively state she still has feelings for you. And I respect your efforts to try and get back with her. But, I don't think that your ex appreciates it. She cannot go forward if she keeps looking back, if that is indeed where she wants to go.
The sex may be comforting, but it does not sound comfortable. She was supposed to be in this exlusive relationship with you and she cheated on you. Now, she's in an exclusive relationship with a new "stud", and she's cheating on him with you. Is she that desirable of a person that you would lower yourself to tawdry intimacies.
I think you should consider "no contact" (I've read your other postings), but don't call it by that term. Think of it as a vacation from her games. You need to regroup and realize what her insecurities, tantrums, and indecisiveness is doing to you. Ignoring her is not going to make her realize what she is going to be missing. But it will help you heal.
You have made your best effort. Not every one wins a blue ribbon. Go sit on a bench and contemplate your navel. I'm sure when the soreness is gone and your breath is back, you will get back in the race. There are plenty of people here in the bleachers waiting to throw gatorade on you when you succeed.
Mimiche
Thanks I know you are correct and if anything I am pushing her away with my pursuit. In this new relationship she says she is in control. She thinks she is happy or on her way to happiness but in reality she is prolonging her agony. The only way to be truly happy and have a happiness that is from within and can sustain you, is to do the right things the right way and be proud of your actions. She has to have guilt, shame and wonder about her choice. In fact she told me a week ago that she still isn't sure she made the right decision. So we shall see. When I think I have seen enough and I truly believe her actions are what she is and has become I will end the game and be ok with it. I have too many questions and concerns at this point. I went out tonight and was miserable. If i don't hear from her soon I will start to realize she is done with me. But 2 weeks ago she asked her mom what would happen if she moved to Texas with me for a job offer I had. That tells me the jusry is still out and no decision is close to being submitted. This week she has tried NC. I do things, I go out, I just don't ever close the door.
I know your right but sometimes I have to touch the stove and find out it is hot once again for myself. When it hurts too bad I have no choice but to stay away. I guess I am not at that point yet. Oh I will cry and regret trying so hard but will build myself back up again and move on.
Drew,
I'm glad to know that you got some insight with my posting. But I have something I would like to question. You seem to still be waiting for her and her mother to make decisions about how this is going to go forth. Maybe if you took control and made your own decision, you can get on with the healing process? Having a third party (the mom) dictate your life doesn't seem like a fair thing to an intelligent man like you.
Sorry, to hear you had a miserable time last night. Everyone is entitled to an *off* evening. I bet "the Donald" doesn't have a swinging time every time he goes out. If alcohol was involved, it may have combined with your low feelings and exacerbated it. Booze is a depressant.
You will cry over all this, but don't regret it. You are learning a lot about yourself, and you will be a better man because of it. Read my discussion http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlbreaking&msg=17075.1&ctx=0 and see what I mean by that.
Mimiche
Mimiche,
I wasn't waiting for her mom but I knew there was a problem there taht needed to be addresed and we never did it. My x was the one waiting for something and I guess in a way I was enabling her to wait and leave me. Our relationship is so difficult to explain in a post or a few posts. She would be with me for a whole weekend (2 weeks ago) and you could see she was "in love" again and we had a blast. She had actually told the new guy she needed to see other peole for a while and that's when she was with me. So she hasn't really cheated on him that I know of. But then after that weekend I got the job offer in Texas and she went so far as to ask her mom what would she think if she went with me. Then she talked to him and he either gave her an ultimatum, him or me. Or he pretended like he was moving on. So she told me her mom told her she needed to stop being selfish and let me go to Texas with no guilt etc. But I stayed and took a job here so it shouldn't apply only that his ultimatum or whatever his game was roped her in. She told me she was in control of this relationship but I guess he took control as of now. That is why I am so confused. She won't communicate with me. She just started the NC rule and I am left wondering what the heck happened after our weekend and I was thinking about the move to Texas. Since I declined it she had made up her minfd to stay and be with him. But if she sees me she wants me. But her friend is the guys cousin. So I am conflicted. He is the easier road and that in my opinion is the only reason we are not together and working it out. If I see her and she tells me it is o=ver and I see it in her eyes I will move on. I have been through a divorce and once my ex-wife convinced me, not by her words or her actions, but by her eyes, body language, words, actions and everything else, that it was over I moved on quickly. It's hard when you know the person wants to be with you and is fighting it for the wrong reasons.
I asked her tonight in an email to call me this week and lets sit down and discuss this and if it is over fine, but I need to have the closure and find out what the heck happened. What happened when she saifd I am "in love" with you again. What happened when she said she asked her mom what about if I go to Tx with him? Why did she ask her? Why did she say if she got back with me it would be her and I against the world and she isn't strong enough for that right now? There are a ton more and all within 2 week period and now NC. With no answers as to why? I can't do that I am just weird I guess but I can't do it. We were having a blast and doing well. I even said you can still see him as I need to prove myslelf again and I don't care who you see. Be my friend and we can have fun and if it's there great if not at least you will know we tried to see if we could recapture it once again. What other x-boyfriend is going to offer that? That's how confident I am in myself and what we had/have together. We got lost and got complacent, it happens after 7 yrs and you don't just run away because as she put it "he treated me like a queen and I liked the attention". How hard is it for a guy trying to romance a girl in a long term relationship when her boyfriend of the 7 yrs has no idea he has competition and is working many hours to save money for our future? Not too tough I don't guess because he won. This NC id BS to me and I can't handle thinking all the time about different scenarios. It is unhealthy but I can't help it I am that way in everything I do. I am analytical and can't do without input and communication. Sometimes too much communication but it gets me over or past things. I can't stop thinking my brain goes 24/7.
If this guy was better than me or if I saw she had no feelings for me and we weren't compatible I would walk away right now. I see none of that. I see an immature person that fell for the trap and is scared to hurt the guy, his cousin (her best friend), their family, and whoever else to get back with me. All I want is to be able to talk once in a while and let her see who I am once again and see if there is anything there. Evidently he has put the pressure on her to not contact me at all and be exclusive with him. Why? Why after a 7 yr relationship would she jump right into a new one and not even talk to me? If I was abusive or something ok, but it was nothing of the sort. Not emotionally or physically. We just got lazy and I am paying for it now. If I don't try and let her see what she is doing she will pay for it in the future. That's my take on it anyway. I know I shouldn't be trying to save others and being a lifeguard when I can't swim myself isn't a very safe profession or undertaking. Oh well I have done far worse things that had potential to do much more damage to all involved. I think I will fight until I see there is no hope. Until then I will fight and be proud because I feel it is the right thing to do. when it becomes wrong, I will walk away knowing I did my best.
Drew,
Thanks for the clarification.
I think you brought up a lot of different issues in your reply that, over time, you will answer on your own.
Judging from what you wrote, it seems to me that your ex did take the easy way out. Perhaps she was afraid to move away from her friends and family and begin a life on her own with you. The initial glow of all that *new* attention temporarily felt good, and gave her a good excuse to leave instead of working on (both) your problems. Once this has died down, she may reconsider her decision to move on without you. I think you will be in a different mind set by then, and you will make a good decision.
I am glad to see that you realized your shortcoming (your complacency) in the relationship, and that you are willing to work on that. That is a positive quality to keep should she return or if someone new eventually comes along. I don't think it will ever become "wrong" as you commented in the end of your posting.
Good luck in whatever you choose.
Mimiche