last night
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| Sat, 07-24-2004 - 12:14pm |
He was gorgeous, funny, smart, everything I remember. He was also charming and attentive, opening doors, paying for dinner, catching my arm when I tripped. He was just deeply considerate and almost chivalrous in a way that's harder to define - he's never a one to look at other women when we're together, he listens attentively to anything I say, he stands close and is prepared to reach out to catch me, he walked me to my car. We did not talk about the breakup, we talked about some interesting things at work, this week's news. We very easily also talked with that special knowledge you have of someone you've been intimate with - the "I know you'll love this," the "you are always doing 'x'," the "remember that time..." He was sweet, and considerate. During the movie, he was extremely fidgety, shaking his leg, rubbing his hands on his legs, touching his hair and his face, just really fussing around over there (he's never like that). I took it to mean agitation at being near me, and a good thing. He walked me back to my car and hugged me.
It was really nice. It was, in fact, like a really nice first date. But that, of course, is the problem. I am definitely still in love with him. And the nice guy I'm dating, in fact all the nice guys I've met, have nothing on the charm and appeal of my ex. I just wanted to wrestle him to the ground and make out with him when he hugged me. And it's weird, something I had forgotten - he makes me feel really feminine. He's big and strong, and he's a gentleman, and he's also so confident and charming. I am a lawyer, at a big firm, making a fair amount of money, and routinely kicking butt. My default persona (you'd never know it from my post-breakup mess, but otherwise), is very sure and confident, slightly aggressive. I've had opposing counsel get red in the face and start jabbing his finger at me, and I've risen up out of my seat and shouted him down. I've gotten the respect of one of the crusty old white male partners at my firm for standing my ground, facing down men with 20 years more experience than me. I'm tough, I'm smart, I'm respected, and normally I have a persona of extreme confidence and competence. But with my ex, I'm ever so slightly off balance, not insecure but less in charge, more aware of myself, less aggressive, more feminine, sweeter and funnier and more easy-going. I like myself when I'm with him. And we both have very strong wills, very aggressive personalities, and we've faced off before, but I feel like he's my match, like it's too easy to push around other men.
Okay, so enough of that. Problem remains, I still love him. A lot. And he still makes my heart race, and butterflies flip, and makes me all moony. And I still don't know what we're doing. I was up all Thursday night working on a brief, and when he heard that he offered to cut the evening short so I could rest and we'd "catch up next weekend." So, he's got some sort of assumption that we'll be doing this every weekend? Why? I don't know what's going on with him, and I'm not sure how to broach the subject. He was charming and wonderful, but there were things that he alluded to in conversation that suggest the breakup has been really hard on him. He's talked about drinking too heavily. He's smoking again, a lot, and he's mentioned going back on Zyban to quit, and said something about how fabulous it was that it was an anti-depressant, too. He also, in a comment that really struck me and reminded me that I'm not ready to be "friends," was talking about our mutual friend who's a pharmaceuticals rep, and mentioned that he could hook him up with a supply of Cialis, and I started thinking about him having sex with other women and felt really bad.
I still love him. I keep thinking that if we just keep doing this, just being around each other, being easy, talking and rebuilding trust and whatever, that sooner or later he'll try to get me back. But if he doesn't, if he starts dating someone else, I know I'll be devastated because I have feelings for him. I want him to realize what he feels for me (if he has feelings for me), I don't want to chase him or force the issue. But I think it is too soon to be friends, and I want more, and I want to see if "more" is on the table, but I don't know what to say. It was so nice, being with him, and so "early relationship"-like, I don't want to initiate some heavy conversation about it being painful or too soon to be just friends. I don't want to tip my hand that I'm still in love with him. I just don't have a clue what to do, here. I'm thinking of sending an email saying I had a nice time, thanks for dinner. It just feels so ridiculous to be all unsure and awkward and nervous about talking with someone you've been intimate with for two years. Why can't I just lay my cards on the table with him? But shortly after the breakup, I told him maybe it didn't have to be this way, I was willing to try to work it out if he was willing to try to resolve what had happened, and he never responded. So, I think he may know that's how I feel? Also, and this is embarassing, but when we were fighting last week, he mentioned that a mutual friend of ours (she's more my friend than his, and I "got" her in the breakup) had made some reference to the index cards that I keep with everything that sucks about him (it's a good coping technique, and we had a nice bitchy session going over them together, but she should not have mentioned that to him), and I told him that sometimes you have to have something that keeps you from embarassing yourself by throwing yourself at a man who doesn't love you enough to be there when you need him. So, I guess it's out there that, but for constant reminders of why he was a jerk, I would have "thrown" myself at him, and I suppose he's smart enough to know that means I still have feelings for him.
I guess he wants to be friends. He's never pushed the issue of sex, this is not about a booty call, and considering that we had great sex (and I frequently initiated, so he knows I'm attracted to him) I think he would have taken advantage of this for a one-night thing if that's what he was after. I guess there is the "companionship" factor, but my ex is like the proverbial taxi who's just turned on his light - he is ready to settle down, was very gung-ho about getting married, thinks he's getting old and it's time (he was always pressuring me to move faster), and I would think he'd be out hitting the dating scene and not wasting time with his ex given that's his agenda.
I don't understand him. I don't understand myself, except to know that I still love him. I don't know what to do. Help.

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Yes, he's charming and all that...very few people are all bad or all good. But he HAS NOT CHANGED...he is still the selfish so and so who made you feel guilty because you wouldn't screw him after your surgery (among other things).
Love isn't enough. There will be someone else out there who makes you feel like he does AND who will treat you well...but so long as you hold on to the illusion that he's going to change, you won't be able to move on and find that man. The only thing that's going to help is cutting off contact again until you are OVER him and the thought of him dating someone else makes you think "Thank GOD I don't have to deal with his selfishness anymore! She can have him!"
Are you sure that woman really is a friend, btw? That was a VERY, very uncool thing for her to do.
Sheri
I think I would put the breaks on and take some time out before you go galloping back into each others life without any real set boundaries. I think you two need to talk about what this is and what has made him change and if this is a change that will remain in him so that when your life has fallen apart he doesn't treat you the same way.
You are still in love with him, it's not too hard to tell, but whether this is really the best thing for you is debatable. I would say it's not the best thing for you. However, if you insist on keeping up with seeing him, know what the boundaries are and what he anticipates from your renewed togetherness from him and not just as an "understanding" so you are both on the same page, and if he hurts you again we'll all have to kick his butt.
I, too, do not believe that love conquers all. Mutual respect, honesty/communication, selflessness, caring, and reliability must also be present for any relationship to work. Looking back & reading all your previous posts here and on the Mending Broken Hearts Board, can you honestly say that given another chance, your X can & will exhibit these traits? Why not give yourself more time away from this man and allow yourself the opportunity to meet someone else who will love, respect, and care for you... and upon whom you can depend.
The guy is "dating" you - he's never been seeking commitment, emotional investment and involvement - he was NEVER any of that with you - ever, despite whatever timeframe you dated, or whatever labels you slapped on your liason.
Dating is all about enjoying the moment as it is, for what it is, whatever is offered and mutually agreed to.
Now personally, while it would sicken me.....a really insecure person who love being able to take you to dinner, treat you chivalrously and have you just at their beck and call and whim and demand......they'd know that they have the "power" over you - because you're emotionally driven vs. goal oriented and factually assessing.
Which would let me, again if I were needing ego boost or just someone to "jack with" - contact you whenever I wanted to be found desirable, attractive, and wonderful beyond compare..and the leave you flat with statements like 'let's just be friends" - knowing that you're on hold and whenever I want an ego boost - i'd take you off hold for a second.....and all the while I'd treat you so well, to keep that adoration at a peak high, that when you do get sick of"not getting what you want" (a relationship" out of al lthis interaction and you turn on me with a vengeance, I'm going to say "well, I treated you well, I never promised you anything, if you were intacting wtih me to get something we didn't agree to - that's not my problem, that's yours." I'd then proceed to tell all our mutual acquaintences that you're delusional and immature because while I treated you well in the moment - you claimed I was manipulating you because I ddin't want a commitment I never pursued...and you're just so desperate and so unattractive ot everybody else you're clinging to me with every shred of your being.
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
That hit home for me. Milton, I hope you read that more than once. Its very true and profound.
My ex (or now my bf again) and I have the same dynamic. I'm at his beck and call, and he is treating me great right now, but that's because it's different than our relationship before. I'm not begging him to introduce me to his parents or promise me a future. If I did, his demeanor would change immediately.
You've got that....that enjoys being with you provided it doesn't require obligation and commitment and that no matter how cool, laid back, and non-invasive you are - he is NOT EVER going to want more than what he's got right now with you - living in the moment, no future attached.
If you're good with that - fine. But realize the problem is that he doesn't want what you want - a relationship of equality and mutual benefit. You do want that type of relationship and you've got yourself deluded into thinking "I can't get that without him".
But the fact is.....you can't get that WITH him...he doesn't want it, and nothing you offer or do or give is going to change his mind.
So....step back...do you want an equality based, mutually beneficial, honestly communicative relationship with someone that desires commitmen - if you do, stop messing with him.
Or, do you want fun, sex, enjoyment "in the moment" because you're not wanting anything serious in your life? If you want that - stick wtih him, get laid well, enjoy the companionship and realize that you're optioned to do all the above with other people besides him - and you should because he's not thinking in terms of anything but "the moment" when he's with you...and if there are other women in his life he's doing with them - what he does with you - because of not desiring anything but "what the moment offers."
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
You are flip-floping. Which is understandable, but let me remind you of the last part of the email you sent a few days ago...
"Bottom line: he is still a completely self-absorbed, selfish idiot. He pulled out all the charisma and charm he had, and it still didn't blind me to that. I wanted to be cool and composed, but he really pissed me off, I ended up raising my voice (it was a bar on Saturday night, though, plenty of people basically yelling everywhere), and I ended up crying. I just want to beat him up, but it is now abundantly clear to me - he really is stupid and selfish. I cannot believe I heard him tell me that he understood I was worried that I had cancer, that I was scared, that I had no family out here, but he felt no need/obligation/desire to go with me to the hospital, and, anyway, he doesn't remember a "specific request" that he do so. I don't want to hear from him again."
Would you really trully respect yourself if you ended up with a man like this? Do you really think this is all you deserve? I understand you still have feelings, whcih is why youhave to put an end to seeing him.
Look, if he had learnt from this experience, which from what you have told us, would take a long time to work through and realize, he would take time to get through it ad when he was rady to really be with you, as a different and full person, he woudl approach you openly and honestly with NO games. He is not doing that.
The thing is that you two need to be apart. There is no question. Whether or not you can be friends of anything more down the road, is irrelevant to what you have to do right now. He is no good for you and when te two of you were being honest and open you came to the conclusion i copied above. Whenyou were tip-toeing around eachother just trying to "enjoy the moment" it was great, but what a farce!!! How can you be happy with that?!?!
YOU DESERVE MORE! Now you only have to believe it for yourself.
I'm intrigued by Reagan's suggestion, actually. I have a follow-up biopsy in August. Maybe I just mention it casually in conversation and see if he goes anywhere with that? If he's curious, interested in supporting me, whatever? And if not, he's a selfish jerk, end of story, and end of all this mess. No "specific request" that he accompany me, just a brief mention that I'm anxious about the upcoming biopsy, leave it at that, and wait to see if anything develops? A thought?
I don't think he's playing me for fun and enjoyment - he's a rich, attractive lawyer, he's got plenty of "options" out there. I've dumped him, shouted at him, told him I thought he was a selfish jerk, and that I posted "our story" on the internet and the general populace agrees he's a horse's -ss. He came back for more, wanted to talk and work it through and be in each other's lives. I know we're all pretty cynical, but just for a moment, maybe we accept that he is confused and immature and whatever else, but he's not the devil incarnate or some evil mastermind plotting how best to hurt and manipulate me. Maybe he cares about me, realizes he made a mistake, whatever. He was always the one pressuring me to move in, talking about marriage, etc.
So, I guess the options I was thinking about are: (1) no contact until/unless he's clear about his intentions, (2) stop playing games and lay my cards out on the table - I think it's too soon for us to be friends, because I still have feelings, and maybe we can check in with each other again in a few months if that's all he has in mind (i.e., prod him into spelling out what he has in mind), or (3) play along with friendship for a bit longer, meanwhile dropping my "test" into the waters - I've got another biopsy coming up, still no family out here, what does he say/do about it? If it's nothing to him, he's a selfish jerk. I mean, even "friends" are concerned about that sort of thing. Thoughts?
Do both of you a big favor and just tell him straight-out what you think, want, deserve, need. I would have given my left n.. if my ex had just told me what she wanted without expecting me to read her mind. While it would be great if we could anticipate and know exactly what our partners are thinking, the reality is that it takes two very open, thoughtful, considerate & disciplined people to make a relationship work. Forget the bullsh.. and make him prove to you that he deserves all that you have to offer.
Good luck.....
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