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| Mon, 08-09-2004 - 9:03pm |
His wife suddenly asked for divorce in Jan. He was so hurt by how she did it and is still reeling. Divorce was finalized in May. He asked me what I wanted to do. I stupidly told him in Feb or early March that I would probably stay with my husband for 5 years- he said he would wait...This was the man I have always loved and our relationship was built on this incredible friendship. I was so unhappy in my marriage- but was unsure about what to do.
I decided I needed to figure things out. My now divorced man did not know what I was thinking or doing as I did not want to put him through the ups and downs if I decided to stay with my husband. I felt like I needed to figure things out on my own and do it right -- he only that I loved him and wanted to be with him.
He decided to move on and wanted a relationship there (We were LD) and basically told me he was no longer in love with me...He could not wait 5 years for me and wanted to get on with his life. He did not know I had gotten separated...I told him...it was a mess....That was 2 1/2 months ago.
Anyway, he wanted to be friends and said he would always be there for me. We had been through so much over the years. My cancer, his wrist surgery that put him on disability so he could no longer operate (he is a surgeon)..so many things. We had this connection and we always knew what the other needed.
Over the past 2 months we have talked a few times and emailed a few times...but I realized he really was not there for me at all. It was all superficial in a sense. This would be fine if he did not want to be friends, but he would tell me that the friendship was so important to him and that he wanted our relationship to continue. I think it hit me when I was going to be in his area this past weekend and he just said he was going to be busy all weekend and did not have time to talk.
I had not really ever told him how hurt I was or what a jerk I thought he was for making a unilateral decision without talking to me and on top of that he did it thinking I would be with my husband for the next 5 years-- that was his major reason for ending it. I was now separated and moving towards a divorce. I had told him that I loved him and was hurt by his decision, but that it was his decision and I could not make him feel a different way.
Anyway-- I ended up calling him at about 11pm and asked him if he had time to talk. He gave me directions to his house. We talked until 5am. I basically was able to tell him how I felt and how hurt and confused I was by his actions. Up until 2 weeks before he ended it I was everything he ever wanted. He understood how confused I was and was sorry he had hurt me. He knew he had done things poorly and should have communicated with me as soon as he started thinking there were problems. He still could not really explain what had happened and agreed that alot of things were miscommunications. The biggest issue was the distance. It just hurt. It was such a difficult discussion. I told him everything I felt-- including that I wanted him to hurt as much as I was hurting in alot of ways...that I knew that was not right but it was how I was feeling...he understood and was so sorry. I said it made no sense to me that he just "fell out of love" after loving me for 20 years...that just does not happen. As we had talked about with his Xwife, you do not fall out of love - it is a process that happens over time. To me that meant he could not have loved me.
He said he was probably still in love with me but did not think it would work out in the long run...he admitted he did things wrong and should have talked about his concerns and not just blind-sided me. He never meant to hurt me, but realized how much I was hurt. Yet he would not open the door to try to talk and see where we were...he said it probably would not change things.
He then said he hoped we could always be freinds. That our friendship was so important to him. At that point I blew up and told him he was not my friend...had not been there for me during the break-up of my marriage for the past 2 months. He was just saying he wanted to be friends to make himself feel better. I said we talked 21 times in the first 2 weeks after your Wife asked for Divorce. Do you know how many times you have called me - let alone asked me how things were going?...basically none...his eyes filled up with tears and he put his arms around me and told me how sorry he was. He thought I was fine with my break-up and that I did not need any help...I was dumbfounded...I had called the weekend before he ended things to tell him what I had done (ie my Marriage was basically over). I called so many times and just wantde to talk to him...he had gone away for the weekend and I did not reach him. I just wanted to talk to him and lean on him - the same way he had leaned on me. He said he was incredibly sorry and felt like he let me down again and wanted to be there for me. He asked if he could call me and be the friend he wanted to be. I told him he had bailed on our relationship - how could I trust he would not bail on our friendship and on top of that how do you go about being friends at this point. Can we be friends? He said "as long as you do not tell me not to call I will call...and you can decide if I am being the kind of friend you would want me to be."
I left...he called the next day to make sure I had made it back to where I was staying. He called the following morning as I was leaving on the plane and he sent an email that night telling me he will call tonight.
I am not sure what he is doing. I think he feels awful for not being the friend he professed to be and feels incredibly guilty about that. In a sense being my friend makes him feel better about himself. I know this sounds terrible- but I am glad he feels guilty about how he behaved...but I am not sure what to do at this point. I was not expecting this kind of reaction...to be honest after the conversation this weekend I still love him and want the US...and that is not good. He may still have feelings for me, but would never act on them again and it is definitely over in his mind...so it is back to being a mess again.
What should I do and what is going on??
tb

I had a few questions for you. Are you & your X (not x-DH) currently still long distance? If so, are you willing (theoretically) to relocate your life & practice for him? or vice-versa? Do you suppose that perhaps your X didn't think it was fair to ask you to relocate or he himself didn't want to relocate to where you are presently living/practicing?
-or-
Maybe - having just gotten out of a marriage- he is not ready to have another serious relationship so soon afterward? I'm not doubting his sincerity when he said he loved you and that you were everything he wanted, but that was when you were still with DH. Based on what you had told him, he prolly didn't think you would separate so soon afterward. And when you did, you caught him unawares.
I'm just throwing out scenarios. I don't know your X, so it's hard to say what he could be thinking, or why he said/did what he did. Maybe if you take a step back, and take a breather from him (e.g. no talk of an immediate friendship until YOU are ready), it might bring you some clarification. Twenty years of friendship would be a shame to throw away; but you also have to think of your sanity, peace of mind, and self esteem. I can't imagine that these recent events (separation, impending divorce, breakup) are very good for your well-being. Perhaps now is a good time to concentrate on just you.
I wish I could be of more help.
Take care & keep us posted,
~Claire
Edited 8/10/2004 2:34 am ET ET by imbetteroffnow
In alot of ways, I do know what you are going through. My X-bf & I were also long distance, while he was going to medical school and I was going to business school for my MBA. Even though we were long distance for a few years, we had such a good friendship based on mutual respect & admiration, shared interests/goals/values, etc. We used to say half jokingly that once he was done with his residency & fellowship (he was planning on a dual Neurology/Internal Medicine specialization, w/ an emphasis in epilepsy), I would help him establish a clinic and manage the finances. We had it all down pat... or so I thought.
We broke up 2x... the second time being the final time. The first time was due to a reluctance on both our parts to move to one side of the country or the other. He was from OH and his family was there; while I am from CA, had/ve a good position w/ a major investment bank. We got back together after he promised that I would have alot of input in how he ranked his choices for Match. In fact, I even accompanied him to some of his residency interviews and gave a "yah or nay" on whether I could live in the area.
So you can imagine how I felt- when after we found out where he matched (he got his 1st choice), I started to feel a withdrawal on his end. He became more distant emotionally. Oh sure, he continued to play the part of good BF- he sent me job ads from the hospital career center, he sent me housing info, and other logistical info for the area. But I could tell his heart was faraway from me. I asked his best friend if he knew what was going on and he told me that my X had confided to him that he was having second thoughts about getting married (we had talked for yrs about getting married in b/w his 1st & 2nd yr of residency) and wanted to enjoy himself before settling down. When I confronted my X about this info, he acknowledged that "somewhere along the way, I stopped trying. It became too hard." Keep in mind, just two weeks earlier, he had been professing his undying love and telling me "when I'm with you, I think I can do anything & everything." We had come so far to get so close... and now he pulls this on me. What the he**??!!!
Needless to say, I broke up with him thereafter and have not taken him back despite his efforts otherwise. He used to e-mail me consistently about his experiences at the hospital, but I never acknowledged them. It was way too painful. We were each other's biggest cheerleaders while we were going thru our respective programs. He used to tell me that "no matter what happens, I hope we will always be friends because my accomplishments are as much yours as they are mine." I get sad even writing this. It brings back so many heartbreaking memories.
Despite our memories, our shared experiences, our mutual respect, I couldn't be friends with my X. It was too painful and I valued my sanity & self esteem more than this friendship. I knew if I stayed friends with him, I wouldn't be able to move on. In addition, I was still angry at him. I consider myself a "good catch" and it was a big blow to my ego that he didn't think I was a good enough catch to snap up asap. Moreover, even now, when I see some medical show on TLC or even "ER" or "Scrubs," I quickly change channels because I don't want to remember.
Anyway, I just wanted to share my own personal story with you. I do know how it feels to have something in your hands only to see it slip thru your fingers due to physical distance, career direction, and skittishness towards committing.
~Claire
Thank you so much for sharing your story. It does help alot. There are so many similarities.
First, yes - me and my X are still LD at this point. I had told him that I would be willing to re-locate down there. To be honest - where I live is not that important to me. He would have a much harder time finding a job. I can find a job fairly easily so it is not too big a deal. The big issue would be moving my 5 yo down there.
As far as a new relationship-- I think it is actually the opposite. He wants a serious relationship and felt like waiting 5 years to be in one was not something he wanted to do. He definitely did not think I would leave my husband for at least 5 years. So I think he felt as though he needed to move on and get his life together. He started dating someone which of course I stupidly had encouraged in a way-- I told him to go out and meet people and we talked about his dates. I never doubted that we would be together and I wanted him to be happy.
I realized I needed to make a decision about my life and what I wanted. I was not being fair to anyone...so I did over a 2-3 month period which to me was fast. I did not tell him because I did not want him to have to deal with all the ups and downs as I figured things out and also because I needed to figure it out without too much influences from him. When we talked this weekend the biggest issues were 1. the issue of waiting 5 years and me not telling him what was going on and that I would soon be separated- I told him in hindsight it was a mistake and I wished I had told him...but I made a mistake for the right reasons and 2. that he did not tell me how he was feeling and then made this unilateral decision and shut the door on us completely. He realizes he should have talked to me all along but did not want me to feel pressure about making a decision about him. Now-- that what he had thought was true (ie I would not leave my husband for a long time)is no longer true doesn't change things- he still will not re-open that door. I think he thought 5 years was too long to wait and then he began to try to think of other things that could help him "fall out of love"-- so in a sense he "talked himself out of loving me" if that makes any sense. There was nothing major...some miscommunications...which he realizes now...but nothing even remotely important.
He is dating someone now...I am not sure when they started dating...but anyway he is in a position that if he was to give us another chance then he would have to break-up with this woman. With her- he has a clean slate in a sense. With us- we have this history-- both good and bad...and although it would be an incredible relationship it may not be the easiest right now. I would have to move there and my life would definitely be disrupted. His X wife and I know each other - when we broke up 20 years ago he had begun dating her and they were married within the year. During their divorce she at one point told him that he should have married me instead of her. I do not know how it all would play out- but I know we could deal with it. Other than this - we usually can talk about anything.
When I was down there this past weekend it was the first time I saw him in 2 months. I really needed to let it all out in a sense. The first day when he told me he was no longer in love with me I reacted shocked and hurt...but then I relaized I could not convince him that he still loved me and therefore it was no use trying. I did fly down there a week later and basically just hung out for a few hours. We talked alot about his divorce and what had happened and I told him I was hurt but that I had to believe he was doing what he thought was right.
This past weekend I felt like I needed to tell him what I was really feeling and thinking. I told him how much he had hurt me and just cried alot. I told him what a jerk he was and that what he did was unforgiveable-- that he never loved me if he could just fall out of love in 2-3 weeks after all we had been through. It was emotionally draining and not something I typically do. I still do not know what happened. To be honest- after seeing him and being there - I think if he still loves me then we should give it a try. I do not think you should bail on a 20 year relationship. If he does not love me-- it should be over.
He wants to be friends- good friends. Yet it confuses me that he would break down in tears when I told him he was not being a friend and has not been there for me over the past 2 months. How can he be a friend if he still has feelings for me? That would not work...and he clearly would not be able to get on with his life in a sense.
I guess what I want is to give us a chance if he is willing to do that. I am not sure what is going through his mind right now. I do know that he cares deeply about me but I am not sure he will ever open the door again. It is frustrating as this is what happened 20 years ago- he thought I was not ready to settle down and decided he needed to move on...he never talked to me about it...I on the other hand was ready to settle down but did not tell him that and had moved away for a year while he was trying to concentrate on getting the residency he wanted. I also never told him how much I loved him and wanted to be with him. It was crazy. I do not want to repeat the same mistakes again.
Maybe that is not true-- I think the door is open ever so slightly...as he said he is probably still in love with me but does not think we would end up together....if we could just hang out together I think we would figure things out quickly...but I can't move my daughter there on a whim...it is so hard. I do not know what to think...and in a sense it takes 2 and I am just one part of this equation.
tb
If you don't mind me asking, how far apart are you & your X? How often have you seen each other since his divorce & your separation? Is it a distance that is drivable or even commutable by a small carrier/plane on weekends? I was thinking maybe you can see each other on the weekends or even every other weekend - for a trial period - to see whether you can rekindle the ol' feelings and to see whether your daughter would like that area. The physical distance makes it so much harder on any relationship- even healthy ones; but when one party is unwilling to continue anymore efforts, that makes it that much more difficult.
I was in the same quandary as you. How could my X say one week that I'm everything he wants, then the next week say that he cannot commit to marriage and that his feelings changed along the way?! It didn't make sense. And like you, I concluded that he must not have loved me if he could so easily flip flop. But in hindsight, I don't believe he didn't love me- just not enough to make the extra effort. I also think w/ my X, he was scared of commitment since all the relationships he knew of had ended in divorce. When I queried my X as to how he could say that he is so looking forward to a future together, then abruptly say "hold off" on commitment, he answered - " I believed I could do it at the time I was saying it. But when it came down to it, I just got scared."
That said, maybe your X - while dating again- is just looking for companionship to soothe over the hurt from his divorce and is not looking for lasting commitment with this woman. If he were to resume a relationship with you, it would be more highly charged, more emotional, and generally require more investment from him. Maybe THAT is what he is avoiding at the moment. It is easy to say "Yes, I want a serious relationship with you" (and think you mean it) while the other person is still involved with someone else and is thus unavailable at the moment; but it is is far more daring to say that AND follow through with it when the other party does become available. Like I said in my pervious post, I'm not doubting your X's sincerity or integrity; I'm only wondering if he said what he did because he didn't think you'd be available so quickly. Maybe he really isn't ready for another serious relationship - contrary to what he says. With all due respect to his present lady, maybe she's just a distraction from his present troubles (i.e broken marriage, painful divorce, etc).
Of course, there's your daughter to think about. You're right - you can't just move her to your X's area w/o being 100% sure of your X's intentions towards you. btw, how would your x-DH feel about you moving her away? There's alot to think about when considering a move -even if you don't care for where you live right now. From the sounds of it, you'd be making more of a sacrifice than he would. And if that's the case, I hope that you will have thought this through and through and that he will be just as committed to this relationship as you.
Ok, I'm jumping the gun here with all the talk about relocating, etc. IMHO, I would still give yourselves some time & distance w/ minimal contact. Let him absorb & process what you've said to him recently. This time will also (hopefully) give you some clarification or additional perspective.
Hope this helps.
~Claire
You are definitely helpful and I am so glad that you are willing to share your story and what you went through as it helpd me alot to understand things a little better.
We are about 1000 miles apart, but yes I would fly down there on weekends if that is what it would take. I am just not sure what he is thinking at this point. Right before I left he put his arms around me and just held me. I wanted so much to just look up into his eyes, but I was crying. It felt so right and yet he did not ask me to stay or give me any indciation that he wantde more...so I felt like I had to leave. I do know he still loves me- but I am not sure he is willing to try to work it out. I know he is scared about the problems we may encounter and it would not be completely easy-- but nothing worthwhile is easy...and our friendship and relationship has survived so much over the years. You are right- he is probably scared of something...I am just not sure what. It is definitely not commitment on his part at least...maybe he is worried about my commitment to him-- I do not know.
I did let all my pain out and told him what a jerk he was for quiting us and that I wished he was as miserable as I was. I even told him a part of me wanted to tell his Xwife and that made me feel awful as that is not the kind of person I am. If he did not love me - what he did was unforgiveable. He hurt me so deeply...you get the gest I am sure...
As far as this other woman- to be honest- the other woman is not as big of a problem if I knew for sure he wanted to try again. The problem is I do not know what he thinks. I do know he is serious about this person. He tends to try to move on quickly. I would not be surprised if he ended up engaged within 6 months. Yes he is hurt and wants companionship, but he also is looking ofr something long-term. There were lots of woman that asked him out. He is a great catch...and he was going out with folks in April and May...now he is dating just one woman probably since end of May or early June.
I guess I should see what he does at this point. The problem we have is so much has been miscommunicated over the last few months and it is only now that we realize it. He means the world to me and the person I know and have know through good and bad for the past 20+ years is a kind, giving, sensitive person. He is not perfect- he makes mistakes-- that is part of what I love about him...he usually can acknowledge them and not get defensive about them as long as you are willing to listen and not judge him. What he did to me- the person I know could never have done that. It makes no sense.
We have had minimal contact over the last 2 1/2 months and now he feels bad that he has not been there for me. That is why he has called 3 times and emailed once in 4 days. I guess a part of me just wants to tell him how hard it was for me to leave and that I just wanted to stay there with him ...and see what he says...but the other part of me says he needs to make the effort and let me know what he is thinking too...I just do not know.
tb
I do not know what he is thinking right now. When he called the next day-- we talked some and I said that I knew he never meant to hurt me...he was surprised that I said that after all I had said the night before. I do know he never meant to hurt me...but he did. And I do believe it when he says he probably still is in love with me...so where does that leave me and him and us...he did not call today and I am not sure what is going on. I know I can't call him. I have to wait and see what he does...but it seems like such a game.
For me, I know what I want and what I do not want in life. I also know I can only control my end of things...so that is where I am...trying to be happy and moving on as best I can. It is sad, but I feel like I have been by myself in my marriage for the last 10 years. I do not want that. I want to move on and be happy ...if not with my X then with someone. I can't live my life feeling miserable in my marriage. It hurts too much.
I just wish I knew what road to take...
tb