Relapse...?

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-14-2004
Relapse...?
14
Sun, 11-14-2004 - 11:03pm
So I'm feeling pretty crappy right now...by the way, sorry this is so long/confusing!

I just got back from spending the weekend visiting my roommate's boyfriend at another college (my roommate was there too, of course). It was a lot of fun--we met his friends, and we all partied together up in Canada on both Friday & Saturday night. It was nice to get away.

But last night (Saturday) I found myself getting drunk and ended up text-messaging my ex. I had not tried to contact him in a long time and he has not contacted me in awhile either. But for some reason I started thinking of him and sent him a message that said "Whooooooo! Imy." When we were still together, we would always send each other messages that said "imy"...it means "I miss you." To my surprise, he responded and said "Haha that's cool, I miss you too." I sent a text back that said "You forgot me" to which he answered by saying "Did I?" and I said "I dunno, did you?" He wrote back & asked "No, why?" and I said "I just think you did." He said "Why would you think that?" and I said "We haven't talked in a long time." To this he responded with "How does that fall on me?" and I said "I just figured you didn't want to hear from me" and he asked "Why?" So then I said "Because you basically ignore me." He said "Um, it's not like you try" and I said "I tried for awhile." He then said "Oh c'mon, you gave up." I asked "On what?" and he said "Me."

THAT part really got to me. Did I give up too easily? Or did I let go? And what is the difference--where exactly is the line drawn between those two? Did I make a mistake by deciding to stop trying with him? He would ignore me most of the time I tried to contact him...but he would sometimes respond or even contact me on his own. I eventually decided that he was just trying to play a game with me and quit trying to be his friend. But if you've followed my other posts, you know that I've had an extremely difficult time with this.

He has told me in the past that if I really wanted to be friends, then I would "redeem" myself to him. I believed him because I felt so guilty--I had lied to him and handled things between us very poorly. I made mistakes. But I wasn't the only one--he also lied...and cheated on me. Deep down, a part of me knows that he isn't a good person nor is he healthy for me. He has treated me horribly since our breakup and I keep telling myself that I don't want or need him in my life...that I am better off without him. But now I'm having doubts...

He says I gave up on him. Is he right? If I kept trying, would he eventually want to be friends? I know you can't make someone like you, or want to be your friend, and you especially cannot make someone love you...but maybe I did give up too easily. For awhile I stopped trying to contact him--I stopped acting like I cared. I told myself that if he really wanted to be friends, he knew how to reach me...but maybe he was thinking the same thing about me?

After he said that I had given up on him, I texted him back and asked if he wanted to talk on the phone (I was getting tired of texting back and forth). I also made the mistake of telling him that I wanted to hear his voice because I missed it. Well, he didn't respond for awhile so I texted him again and said "This is what I meant...take care." He then answered and said "What do you mean? Grow up." I said "What I mean is I don't want to bother you anymore" and he asked "What makes you think you're bothering me?" I asked what he wanted from me. He said "I asked for nothing...but that doesn't make you the opposition." What did he mean by that?

Then I asked "So now what?" and he said "You pick." So I suggested again that we talk on the phone instead of texting and he said "Can't talk now, but I could talk soon--maybe :)" so I said "Haha, oh yeah?" and he said "Ok"...I said "What?" and he said "You blew it off." I said "No, I'm just confused...am I supposed to call you later or what?" and he said "Hmm, do you wanna?" I said "Yes" and waited. He didn't respond...so I texted him again and said "What should I do?" He never responded to that either. And that was the end...I went to bed. This morning I woke up and discovered all of the text-messages that we had sent back & forth. I sent him one today that said "Sorry for all the drunken texts...take care kid." I haven't heard anything from him.

This sucks a lot. I had been feeling really great about myself and my life lately...I wasn't thinking of him much. But now I'm feeling really bad...I feel as though he has all the power. What do I do? I think I'm having a relapse...I hadn't checked his screenname online (for his away messages) in awhile. But I did tonight when I got home :( and it says he's with his girlfriend...which made me feel even worse than I already did.

I guess I'm just worried that if I stop trying now, we will never ever be friends. He doesn't see things the way that most people do...I don't think he would be willing to give me time to heal. I know he expects me to make the effort and show him that I care...and sadly enough, I still do--despite everything he's put me through. I know what you are all going to say--he's a jerk and it doesn't matter what he thinks of me, etc. I even managed to convince myself of that for awhile...but now I feel like I'm back to square one here. I messed up...I feel like I've never done anything right when it comes to him. And I hate that...I want to fix things between us. I hate feeling guilty and like everything was my fault. I hate knowing that he doesn't think too highly of me anymore, when at one point, he seemed to love me so much...

It's been over 6 months since we broke up and he started dating someone else. I know I've made some progress in my healing...I know I could do it again. I'm SO mad at myself for giving in & contacting him again! I think it was the arrogant side of me coming out--I was worried he had forgotten about me. I know it shouldn't matter...but it does. I just feel more confused now...should I keep trying with him? Will it ever get me anywhere? Or have I reached that point where I need to stop trying with him completely? I think I know what I need to do...I guess I just want some reassurance.

"It's hard to take positive steps, when you've burned the bridge you got to walk across."

"I wish I had the guts to walk away and forget everything, but I can't cuz I know you won't come after me and that is what hurts me the most."

"I'm mad at myself, not you. I'm mad for always being nice, always apologizing for things I didn't do, for getting attached, for making you my life, depending on you, wasting my time on you, thinking about you, following you, changing for you, forgiving you, wishing for you, dreaming of you, and most of all...for not hating you which I know I should..but I can't."


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iVillage Member
Registered: 05-27-2004
In reply to: kcl19310
Mon, 11-15-2004 - 9:59am
Wow, I was reading my own thoughts exactly with your last two quotes. I really feel for you and your confusion over this guy. I am struggling now with the "letting go" myself. I've been trying friends for months because he insisted, and watched him want other girls and then come after me and then ignore me and its been hell. Everytime I would move on he would act like he was interested in more, and then change his mind. I was tore up and then strong and then weak. It hurts so much when they choose someone else and you are supposed to just watch because technically we are just friends? Then he would show up and be so charming and I would (like other posters) end up falling for his seduction and sleep with him. Man it is always heaven and then they remind us that they are just not ready for a relationship. Anyway I'm just saying, agonizing over whether you let go and didn't try enough to be friends is not right. It is his way of making you feel guilty instead of him. You don't need his friendship (which is lousy when he ignores you) He has a girlfriend now, and that has to tear you up (which makes you a lousy friend) I've been there, being friends is torture if you have deeper feelings. If you can, just walk away, heal from him and don't try to keep him in your life. I've been holding on and it hasn't helped me. I read and linger on the boards to read that one line that will help me to stop hurting and obsessing but i've read a hundred great lines, and it is just time, acceptance, and no contact. Don't sweat the drunk texting, you will move on again and completely, but don't fool yourself into thinking you can handle friendship and don't let him make you feel guilty for not trying. We really don't need these guys, their friendship, or their games. We gotta let go, sending hugs

Christan

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-14-2004
In reply to: kcl19310
Mon, 11-15-2004 - 1:39pm
Thanks for your response :)

I'm sorry to hear about your situation as well. It's so tough, isn't it? I'm still mad at myself for texting my ex the other night. I know I had been drinking, but still--I had usually managed to refrain from doing that in the past.

I still feel torn about what to do. The sensible part of me is saying "let go, give up...stay away from this jerk." I think that if a friend of mine was in this situation, I would be telling her that she's crazy...that she needs to stop trying with this guy because he isn't worth it. It's so easy to be objective about other people's situations. But when it comes to your own...that's when it gets all confusing.

I definitely know how you feel when it comes to your ex only acting interested when you don't. When we first broke up and he started dating someone else, I pretended to be okay with it. I told him I was glad he had met someone he really liked...and man, did he get angry! He then gave me this guilt trip--he said I must not really care about him if I was willing to give him up so easily, and that he wasn't sure about his new girl...he told me that he didn't want me to consider us "over for good." He didn't want me dating anyone else...basically he wanted to keep me around in case his new relationship didn't work out. I was a fool and let him string me along for awhile...he would spend all his time with this new girl, yet still tell me that he loved me and wanted to be with me.

To make a long story short--we ended up getting in a big fight and discovered that we had both lied about some stuff, I found out he had cheated numerous times, etc. He did a complete 180 & told me he didn't like me, didn't want to know me, etc. He blamed me for everything and told me that I needed to "redeem" myself to him if we were ever to be friends again. I believed him...and part of me still does :( That's part of my problem...I feel guilty for what I did. I know I'm only human and I make mistakes...but I haven't yet forgiven myself for lying to him. Maybe it really was all my fault...

I know there's a limit as to how much BS you should take from someone...that you can't change someone's mind or make them like you. But am I making a mistake by giving up too easily? If you really care about someone, shouldn't you try for them?

When is enough enough?

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-27-2004
In reply to: kcl19310
Mon, 11-15-2004 - 2:47pm
This guy is really good at making you take all the blame! That if you drop it, the whole thing is over and lost as if he wanted it differently and you ruined it. That in itself is very manipulative! Yes you two have had some bad history with lies, but that didn't come about till after he had started seeing someone else. My guy did the same thing, got a new girlfriend and would still talk to me and couldn't stand it if I went out on a date. When he didn't get my attention, he came after it. If I said I couldn't be friends, they are like "if thats the way you want it?" as if! Oh it is hard, I'm sure you tried to tell him how you felt, that you care about him. And yet it never seems to be enough to win him over. You are the only one trying here! And it takes two. If he has a girlfriend, you don't have a choice really but to move on. Does he expect you to just hang around and beg for friendship and his attention? I'm sorry to sound bitter, I can see you are hurting and really care, and these guys have this hold on us.

When is enough enough? BIg sigh... I've drawn bottom lines, told him I couldn't be there anymore and always be second or even third best. I have cried endlessly and prayed for guidance. If you know you have done all you can do, you have told him how you feel, and it isn't enough for him to accept you, than you gotta leave it. He's not making it easy as long as you feel you are responsible for the way things are now. He is the one with the girlfriend!!! I keep thinking, deep down to hold on, and I still have hopes but I know he is dating others. I can't pretend to be friends and settle for his attention only when he is lonely or feels like stoking his ego. I have so much to offer, and time and time again he has shown me that he doesn' t have the same feelings, or isn't ready. Ive broken somebody else's heart because I couldn't move on, and was secretly waiting for him, and let him back in my life only to leave again. It is only this passed week that I told him not to contact me anymore:( It was hard but I can't keep moving forward and have him pop back up and get false hope that he changed his mind. Ive been heartbroken over this now longer than we were even in a happy relationship. I decided enough because he can't give me what I want, a loving relationship. You gotta forgive yourself for the past and try not to let him hold that over your head! IF he was into making something work, he wouldn't let you agonize. He cheated on you back then? Where was the love then? It's closure that maybe you need? From what happened? ANd secretly wanting to work on things to maybe get more? I'm just saying because I did the same thing, when we were mad at each other, I couldn't leave it. I had to reconcile and be the cool friend, and when I got it to where we were talking, I started anaylyzing and wanting more. It got me in bed with him under a casual tone and thats not really what i wanted.

You have to ask yourself what you want from him, what can he give you? Forgiveness? A friendship? Is it worth it to have to prove yourself to him? and for what? From what you said, it sounds like he gave up awhile back. It's not that you are giving up, you have put your heart out there and he is playing with it. I really feel for you because I know it hurts deeply. You just care so much and want to hold on and they just aren't worth it? They let go first a long time ago. Let me know how you are, we're gonna make it!

Christan

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2004
In reply to: kcl19310
Mon, 11-15-2004 - 4:15pm
You need to stop beating yourself up about the lying. It sounds like he was no angel to you. It also sounds like you've learned a lesson about trust and honesty, and that you won't repeat that mistake in a future relationship. That's all you can do, what happened has happened and it's over with.

You were involved with a selfish, immature, manipulative person. Face that, and it will make it easier to let go and move on. Selfish, immature, and manipulative people are masterful at shifting the blame, at "the best defense is a good offense." Not sure if you remember my whole story, but here was my ex's approach - he abandoned me when I was dealing with cancer because I wasn't meeting his "needs," not spending enough time with him, wanting to talk about cancer instead of catering to him and reassuring him, not being available 24/7 for him whenever the whim struck him to spend time with me. I wasn't eager enough to marry him, not willing to drop my friends and independent social life for him, not willing to cut out of work early or just shut up about work already when he wasn't interested in hearing about it. I was a bad girlfriend. So I deserved to be scared and alone in the hospital when I had to have the surgery that might leave me prone to miscarriage or unable to have children. It was my fault, anyway. I'd pushed him away, I'd made it impossible for him to love me, so he just couldn't respond appropriately to my illness. And, anyway, he doesn't recall a "specific request" to go the hospital during my treatments and surgery, I've broken his heart and embarassed him in front of all of our friends over a "he said, she said" about going to the hospital, and it's not fair because he's just forgetful. I reacted inappropriately, I blew it all out of proportion, I was just nuts anyway and lucky to have someone like him who'd still talk to me after all of that.

Recognize anything in that narrative that sounds familiar? This is a type, and it's different face, same story. Selfish, immature, and manipulative. It's not your fault. Your relationship didn't work out, and you're disappointed. But can you honestly imagine yourself riding off into the sunset with Mr. Lying Cheat? No. Bad relationships bring out the worst in us. If you're Catholic, go to confession about the lying, otherwise find some ritual or ceremonial act by which you can apologize to a higher power and ask forgiveness for lying. Then learn your lesson in your next relationship. Don't waste any more thought on your ex, he is absolutely not worth your time.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-22-2004
In reply to: kcl19310
Mon, 11-15-2004 - 5:41pm
Don't beat yourself up about calling him. You did it, and now it's over and you learned something. I know it hurts, girl, were all going thru something with a man, but what I learned is that you will eventually heal, and it's going to take time. You have to give yourself time, and definately "NO CONTACT". That's the only thing that helps, if you don't hear from them. I still want to call my friend, and it's been two months, and I know I can't do it, because if I do, then I lose whatever progress I have gained this far. Try your best to not call him. It only makes things worse when you don't get the response you want. Now, you have to start over, and it'll probably be hard, but you can do it, and us Ivillage friends, are here for you, even if you have another relaspe. We have all been there. When you get enough, you will stop yourself and it will be over. Take care, and remember that the people who respond to your message, they don't know you, but they understand, and they can empathize because we have experienced it or feeling the pain now. You got to remember the pain is not forever, it's just that it seems it won't go away, and it will. Take care
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-14-2004
In reply to: kcl19310
Tue, 11-16-2004 - 12:21am
Thanks so much for your response.

You really got me thinking...you said that it sounds as if my ex gave up on ME a long time ago. And you're completely right...

My ex has given up on me. He doesn't like me...he doesn't want to be my friend...he doesn't even want to know me. I'm sure he will always blame me for what happened between us. And yes, I made mistakes and handled things poorly...but I wasn't the only one. It was BOTH of our faults and trying to pin it on just one person isn't fair. I've been willing to forgive his mistakes and accept him for who he is, become his friend. I know it may sound crazy because he isn't the best person in the world...but I still care. I want him to know that I'm there for him...but he doesn't care. It doesn't matter to him how much I think of him. It doesn't matter to him if I'm mad or sad, etc. It doesn't truly matter to him whether I care or not. I don't matter to him at all anymore...maybe I never did. And it's been really hard for me to accept that...

I want so badly to be someone he thinks is worthy of his attention...someone he wants to know, and be friends with. He makes me feel like a bad person and I hate that. I know it shouldn't matter what he thinks. I know that I am a caring person with a good heart and that it will be his loss not knowing me in the end. But right now I just feel like I'm the one missing out...like I'm the one who has lost.

It sucks because we were good friends before we ever started dating. I was the person he came to for advice...I was the one who helped him through rough times. I was always there for him. I know I lied to him and hurt him...but why doesn't he remember the good in me? I remember the good in him...

I guess that's part of the reason I'm still having such a hard time letting go. Because he was a good friend before we dated, and he became my best friend over time. I miss that aspect of our relationship so much. I feel as though he understood me...that he knew me better than anyone else in some ways. But I know I'm being silly--I know that even if we were to become friends, our friendship would not be the same as it once was. We don't even live in the same state...we would probably never talk, and he has a new girlfriend so he probably wouldn't have time for me. Not to mention the fact that I wouldn't really enjoy hearing about her. So to answer your question--I guess I can't decide if I really want our friendship back or if I just want forgiveness from him.

But back to the important point you brought up--he gave up on me a long time ago. And yet he still tries to make me feel guilty for "giving up" on him?? Ugh. My mind can see that he's a jerk, that he isn't worth thinking about, that I'm better off without him...but my heart still isn't totally convinced. He really knew how to manipulate me into feeling guilty and like everything was my fault...I've just got to figure out a way to get out of that trap. ::sigh::

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-14-2004
In reply to: kcl19310
Tue, 11-16-2004 - 12:33am
Milton, you are right as always...

Your story about your ex made me want to cry--not only for your sake, but because it DID sound very familiar. My ex has told me before that he thinks I'm "crazy and lucky he sees things differently than most people and still bothers to talk to me at all."

::sigh:: WHY HAVE I BEEN SO WILLING TO OVERLOOK THE MISTAKES HE'S MADE BUT CONTINUE FEELING GUILTY ABOUT MY OWN?! I'm generally a forgiving person, perhaps too often...but I realize that people are only human and that they make mistakes (although obviously I'm having difficulty accepting that to be true when it comes to me). I also believe that there is some good in everyone...maybe I'm just naive. I guess I still haven't accepted that my ex isn't a good person...I still think about the person I thought he was, and the person he could be. I think he liked that about me--I thought he was great already and could be even better. Convincing myself that he is not the person I thought he was is part of what's holding me back...and I don't know what it is going to take to fully prove that to me.

You are right--I have learned my lesson in trust/honesty and I'm definitely not planning on making those same mistakes in future relationships. But being strong enough to remember that my ex is not worth my time is another story...

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-14-2004
In reply to: kcl19310
Tue, 11-16-2004 - 12:36am
Thank you for your kind and encouraging words :)

You are inspiring me to try and be strong...and I wish you luck with your own situation.

I hope I don't have another relapse, but you're right--it definitely helps to know that there are people out there who can empathize with me. These discussion boards are really great, aren't they?

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2004
In reply to: kcl19310
Tue, 11-16-2004 - 2:13pm

It's not so much that he's a "bad" person, though words like immature and selfish are value-laden words. Think of it this way - the young puppy who chews up your $250 new shoes isn't "being bad," he is behaving like a puppy, engaging in normal puppy behavior without any intention to hurt or harm you. If you don't want puppies chewing on your expensive shoes, you don't own puppies, or you lock up your shoes, you don't condemn puppies as evil, malicious things. Same with your ex - you don't have to believe he's "bad," just that he's "bad for you," which is absolutely true. You don't have to write him off as a person, just write him off as an option for romantic partnership. He's really just like that gorgeous red dress you find in the store, that just doesn't quite hang right on you, no matter what size you try. It's sad that it doesn't work for you, but it's just a matter of incompatibility. Your ex may have certain behavioral patterns, attitudes, and values that are inconsistent with yours. You don't have to decide in an absolute, judgmental sense that he's wrong and you're right, that he's bad and hopeless and awful and you're good and mature and moral. You just have to recognize he's wrong for you, that you're incompatible, that him being who he is will always cause pain to you being who you are, because you're too different in terms of behavior, attitude, and values to ever be on the same page. He's caused you pain, your only option is to remove yourself from the situation to avoid further pain. While I may think that my ex is a sorry excuse for a human being, ultimately it is not necessary that I decide he's pure concentrated evil and an immoral slug. All I need to realize is that he's wrong for me, that being with him would continue to cause me pain because he'll continue to act in accordance with who he is, and if I want to be safe and happy I need to remove him from my life.

Also, I know you're quite upset at losing the friendship you once had with your ex. Consider this - we cannot be friends with people who treat us badly, whose behavior shows a fundamental lack of respect for us and for our feelings, trust, and loyalty. You may once have been friends. There's no going back in life, only going forward. Now that he's cheated and lied and basically verbally abused you with all this blame talk, can you go forward as friends? Is this a basis for being friends? Erin/Doubleblade may have posted to you before about boundaries - we all need them, it's fundamental to our self-esteem and ability to function as adults. Where are your boundaries? Hasn't he crossed them? Yes, someone absolutely can do something to you that crosses a line and makes it impossible for you to be friends. I think your ex has done that. I think your tension and turmoil comes from knowing that he's crossed a boundary, but still wanting to be involved with him in some capacity, while you know that continued involvement with him is betrayal of your own boundaries and self-respect. You're confused and upset because your impulse/guilt that's driving you to stay involved with him is in direct conflict with a presently subconscious outrage at his betrayal of you and your instinctive rejection of such as person as "friends" material. Enforce your own bottom line, if you will not tolerate a cheating, manipulative jerk, then don't tolerate it. It's trying to force this into the mold of "friendship" under perceived societal pressure that's causing you confusion. I don't think he can be your friend. I think he crossed a line, and made friendship impossible. Police your boundaries, and accept that.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-14-2004
In reply to: kcl19310
Tue, 11-16-2004 - 7:19pm

Milton,

I know you're right. I know that my ex isn't necessarily a "bad" person. I guess it's just easier for me to try & think of him that way...then I don't feel like I'm missing out as much, you know? I haven't yet been able to come to the conclusion that he just wasn't right for me. Maybe because I wanted him to be so badly...

I am still having strong urges to write him one last letter. I know, I know...it probably wouldn't accomplish anything and who knows if he'd even read it. But I feel as though I still have so much to say to him. And he isn't willing to talk...but I want to get this stuff off my chest. I've tried writing him letters and not sending them in the past, but that hasn't made me feel any better. I'm not planning on writing anything cruel, or blaming him for what happened. I'm not going to make it some self-pity letter either. I realize I can't change his mind about me and that no matter what, he may always think badly of me. But I feel like writing him one last time would help ME feel better about myself. Or am I just nuts?

On the other hand...the whole boundaries thing sounds right. I feel incredibly guilty for what I've done to him...yet incredibly angry with myself for putting up with his bs for so long. I know he's crossed a line that I would never allow anyone else to. I don't understand what it is about me that makes me want to fix things between us...other than the fact that I miss our friendship. But I know that it could never be the same...it isn't even a matter of wanting to be his friend anymore. I guess I'm just still seeking forgiveness and want to set things right. I need to get it through my head that it doesn't matter what he thinks of me...I just hate that we ended on such horrible terms. Is that so wrong?

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