Relapse...?

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-14-2004
Relapse...?
14
Sun, 11-14-2004 - 11:03pm
So I'm feeling pretty crappy right now...by the way, sorry this is so long/confusing!

I just got back from spending the weekend visiting my roommate's boyfriend at another college (my roommate was there too, of course). It was a lot of fun--we met his friends, and we all partied together up in Canada on both Friday & Saturday night. It was nice to get away.

But last night (Saturday) I found myself getting drunk and ended up text-messaging my ex. I had not tried to contact him in a long time and he has not contacted me in awhile either. But for some reason I started thinking of him and sent him a message that said "Whooooooo! Imy." When we were still together, we would always send each other messages that said "imy"...it means "I miss you." To my surprise, he responded and said "Haha that's cool, I miss you too." I sent a text back that said "You forgot me" to which he answered by saying "Did I?" and I said "I dunno, did you?" He wrote back & asked "No, why?" and I said "I just think you did." He said "Why would you think that?" and I said "We haven't talked in a long time." To this he responded with "How does that fall on me?" and I said "I just figured you didn't want to hear from me" and he asked "Why?" So then I said "Because you basically ignore me." He said "Um, it's not like you try" and I said "I tried for awhile." He then said "Oh c'mon, you gave up." I asked "On what?" and he said "Me."

THAT part really got to me. Did I give up too easily? Or did I let go? And what is the difference--where exactly is the line drawn between those two? Did I make a mistake by deciding to stop trying with him? He would ignore me most of the time I tried to contact him...but he would sometimes respond or even contact me on his own. I eventually decided that he was just trying to play a game with me and quit trying to be his friend. But if you've followed my other posts, you know that I've had an extremely difficult time with this.

He has told me in the past that if I really wanted to be friends, then I would "redeem" myself to him. I believed him because I felt so guilty--I had lied to him and handled things between us very poorly. I made mistakes. But I wasn't the only one--he also lied...and cheated on me. Deep down, a part of me knows that he isn't a good person nor is he healthy for me. He has treated me horribly since our breakup and I keep telling myself that I don't want or need him in my life...that I am better off without him. But now I'm having doubts...

He says I gave up on him. Is he right? If I kept trying, would he eventually want to be friends? I know you can't make someone like you, or want to be your friend, and you especially cannot make someone love you...but maybe I did give up too easily. For awhile I stopped trying to contact him--I stopped acting like I cared. I told myself that if he really wanted to be friends, he knew how to reach me...but maybe he was thinking the same thing about me?

After he said that I had given up on him, I texted him back and asked if he wanted to talk on the phone (I was getting tired of texting back and forth). I also made the mistake of telling him that I wanted to hear his voice because I missed it. Well, he didn't respond for awhile so I texted him again and said "This is what I meant...take care." He then answered and said "What do you mean? Grow up." I said "What I mean is I don't want to bother you anymore" and he asked "What makes you think you're bothering me?" I asked what he wanted from me. He said "I asked for nothing...but that doesn't make you the opposition." What did he mean by that?

Then I asked "So now what?" and he said "You pick." So I suggested again that we talk on the phone instead of texting and he said "Can't talk now, but I could talk soon--maybe :)" so I said "Haha, oh yeah?" and he said "Ok"...I said "What?" and he said "You blew it off." I said "No, I'm just confused...am I supposed to call you later or what?" and he said "Hmm, do you wanna?" I said "Yes" and waited. He didn't respond...so I texted him again and said "What should I do?" He never responded to that either. And that was the end...I went to bed. This morning I woke up and discovered all of the text-messages that we had sent back & forth. I sent him one today that said "Sorry for all the drunken texts...take care kid." I haven't heard anything from him.

This sucks a lot. I had been feeling really great about myself and my life lately...I wasn't thinking of him much. But now I'm feeling really bad...I feel as though he has all the power. What do I do? I think I'm having a relapse...I hadn't checked his screenname online (for his away messages) in awhile. But I did tonight when I got home :( and it says he's with his girlfriend...which made me feel even worse than I already did.

I guess I'm just worried that if I stop trying now, we will never ever be friends. He doesn't see things the way that most people do...I don't think he would be willing to give me time to heal. I know he expects me to make the effort and show him that I care...and sadly enough, I still do--despite everything he's put me through. I know what you are all going to say--he's a jerk and it doesn't matter what he thinks of me, etc. I even managed to convince myself of that for awhile...but now I feel like I'm back to square one here. I messed up...I feel like I've never done anything right when it comes to him. And I hate that...I want to fix things between us. I hate feeling guilty and like everything was my fault. I hate knowing that he doesn't think too highly of me anymore, when at one point, he seemed to love me so much...

It's been over 6 months since we broke up and he started dating someone else. I know I've made some progress in my healing...I know I could do it again. I'm SO mad at myself for giving in & contacting him again! I think it was the arrogant side of me coming out--I was worried he had forgotten about me. I know it shouldn't matter...but it does. I just feel more confused now...should I keep trying with him? Will it ever get me anywhere? Or have I reached that point where I need to stop trying with him completely? I think I know what I need to do...I guess I just want some reassurance.

"It's hard to take positive steps, when you've burned the bridge you got to walk across."

"I wish I had the guts to walk away and forget everything, but I can't cuz I know you won't come after me and that is what hurts me the most."

"I'm mad at myself, not you. I'm mad for always being nice, always apologizing for things I didn't do, for getting attached, for making you my life, depending on you, wasting my time on you, thinking about you, following you, changing for you, forgiving you, wishing for you, dreaming of you, and most of all...for not hating you which I know I should..but I can't."


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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2004
In reply to: kcl19310
Tue, 11-16-2004 - 10:29pm

Well, I tend to think the "not wanting him to think badly of me" thing is just as much a problem as wanting to be his social worker. I'm a lawyer, and litigation can be a zero zum game. Someone wins, someone loses. Sometimes, you waltz into court, argue your motion, and you're brilliant and you make the other guy look like an unprepared, illiterate putz. And then you waltz out, feeling good. I've never "felt bad" or worried that the other guy "thought badly of me." He got what he deserved for not knowing which arguments to make, not doing the research, picking the wrong battle, whatever. So, as a general rule, I'm not especially familiar with worrying about whether people think well of me, particularly not people who have played dirty with me (as other lawyers sometimes do). That wanting the world to like you thing is hopefully something you'll grow out of, as you develop greater self-confidence, achieve more on your own, and have a greater appreciation of yourself irrespective of what people think of you. If they don't like you, too bad for them, there's plenty of other people to spend your time with, and I can guarantee you're not going to drop dead one day because there's someone out there with lingering bad feelings toward you.

That being said, I'll repeat what I've said before to you - I don't think you're actually over this guy, and I don't think you've really accepted that you and he are not and will not be together. I know because even after the way my ex behaved toward me, I felt lingering guilt for not being more attentive to him, not compromising more, doubt that maybe I had pushed him away, whatever. I also spent the whole summer in this whole "I just want us to part on good terms" thing. When I left him, I told him exactly why and what he'd done that made me leave. He told me he hated me, that I was a bad girlfriend, blah blah blah. The lingering bad feelings on both sides made me feel like I had heartburn every time I thought of him. Given that we're both lawyers, and do run into each other professionally, I didn't want us to be on bad terms. I think that's like what you're saying about not wanting him to think badly of you. So, I kept thinking we "ought" to be friends, or at least friendly, that there was no harm in having lunch sometimes and hanging out. And I kept pressing for us to talk, to normalize relations, to be on good terms. But, underlying all of that was, of course, a wish/hope/dream that we'd get back together, that he'd apologize for what he did, make it all right again, and I could get back the laughter and fun and passion we had during our "good" times together. And, guess what? Since the loser disappeared without a trace after my dog died, I am well and truly done with him. And it feels so different. I don't care what he thinks of me. I don't care if he tells the whole freaking world that I was a bad girlfriend, that I sing in the shower, that I have to neurotically sleep with a fan running in the bedroom, that I have chicken pox scars, that I'm entirely too attached to my pets, WHATEVER. I don't care if he has burned me in effigy, told all his drinking buddies at the bar that he hates me, or if he's blocking my email or anything else. I don't care. He can go off and live his life and do whatever he wants with it, and none of it is my problem anymore. You only care what he thinks and feels about you if, of course, YOU CARE what he thinks and feels about you. It only upsets you that he might think badly of you because you want him to be in love with you, because you're still in love with him. Now, it takes TIME for those love feelings to fade away (unless he makes an encore appearance with bad behavior, like my ex), but don't kid yourself - that's why it matters to you what he thinks of you. Once you get that, maybe you can avoid defending yourself to him by writing this letter expressing your thoughts, and maybe you can recognize the real motive for wanting to rehabilitate his image of you.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-14-2004
In reply to: kcl19310
Tue, 11-16-2004 - 11:52pm

Milton,

Ahh, what you say is always so true...

I've been in denial for the past 6 months. I have been telling myself that I'm over him, that he's a jerk, and that I just want us to be on good terms. But you're right--if I didn't still have feelings for him, then I wouldn't care what he thought of me. And of course, it probably has something to do with me having self-esteem issues as well. But the main reason for me not wanting him to hate me is because I still care about him, still love him, and still wish things could be different. I still have this hope that maybe someday things will change and we'll get back together...that we'll work out all of our problems. Is that normal? Will that hope ever truly fade away?

It's sad, really--I'm sure he must realize that I still have feelings for him. I've tried to make it seem like I just want to be his friend, and that I would be completely cool with that. I've told him that I want him to be happy and I'm glad he met someone he cares about, blahblahblah. And part of me really does mean that--I DO want him to be happy in life. But it breaks my heart that I couldn't give him what he wants...especially when I seemed to be able to do it so well at one point.

Another thing--I've never really dealt with someone being this upset with me before. Sure, I've gotten into fights and I don't doubt that I'm on someone's list of "least favorite people." But none of the important relationships in my life have ever ended badly...not like this one at least. I have dated before him (although nothing that really meant anything to me), I have lost good friends, and I have broken up with people before, but they have all ended on decent, if not great, terms. I guess I haven't been able to fully grasp why this one had to be different.

I'm still very ashamed of what I did--the whole lying to him thing. I guess I never saw myself as being that type of person. I feel like a hypocrite sometimes, getting mad at him for lying when I did the same thing. I know that two wrongs don't make a right, but sometimes I just feel like I have no business being angry with him because I messed up as well. I guess I just have to keep reminding myself that I'm only human...and that my mistakes shouldn't serve as a reason for him to treat me poorly.

I know I should take your advice and give myself enough time to fully get over him before making any rash decisions. You've helped a lot--you have made me realize that it isn't about wanting to be his friend/not wanting him to hate me...it is about me still having feelings for him. I've tried to convince myself for so long that I'm over him...but apparently I still have some work to do.

However, I DO feel like there are things that need to be said to him. I've never come out & told him that I still have feelings for him and that's why it's so difficult for me to accept that we cannot be friends (because I myself didn't want to accept that I still care for him). I've also never told him not to contact me anymore because I've been so scared of letting him out of my life for good. I've made up a lot of bs reasons & a lot of stupid excuses...and I've blamed him for a lot of things. Yes, I know we both made mistakes...I just feel like I need to let him know that I realize all of this and that I don't blame him or myself any longer. I want him to know that I wish we could have worked out and even been friends sometime in the future, but I just can't do it. And I want him to know that I do wish him the best in life and hope he ends up happy...

I know what you're thinking--you probably think I'm still being naive and that contacting him again will only bring me more pain, not to mention it will give him all the power. And perhaps you're right--maybe you can say "I told you so" in the end. But I really feel like it would help to bring me some closure. I feel like e-mailing him is something I want and need to do. I think I told you how I've been having this nagging feeling...that I haven't done all that I can. ::sigh:: So here's what I'll do--I'm going to write him an email tonight. But I won't send it--I'll save it as a draft. If I'm still having this feeling in say, a week or so, then I will send the email. And I will deal with whatever comes along with it then--both the positivies & the negatives.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2004
In reply to: kcl19310
Wed, 11-17-2004 - 4:01pm

Here's kind of my final thoughts on the matter. When you say that no important relationship in your life has ever ended on bad terms like this, I know exactly what you're saying. I got divorced, and it ended better than this last relationship. I'm not the kind of person to hold a grudge or stay angry for very long, so I am not familiar with this kind of lasting bad blood between us, it confuses me as to why it has to be this way. It also kind of makes me angry. Although I know that it takes two to make a relationship fail, *he abandoned me when I had cancer.* I mean, seriously, what is he angry and bitter ABOUT? That I didn't pay enough attention to him? His unfounded paranoia that I was cheating? Why does he get to be angry and turn this whole thing into such a sordid mess? Why couldn't he just say, "you're right," admit he couldn't be mature and emotionally supportive, and walk away? Why does he nitpick every thing I ever did in the relationship? Why does he have to strike back at me for leaving him, after he acted so badly to make me leave in the first place? Here's what I think - the "quality" of your breakup has a lot to do with the type of person you're dealing with. The breakup negativity has a feedback loop, just like the relationship did. Maybe you each feed into it. And for some reason, your ex (just like mine), just keeps spewing out negativity and anger and righteous indignation, and you keep trying to neutralize that with friendship and forgiveness and apologies, hoping to stop this out of control chemical reaction. What I've learned is that the downward spiral of negativity is inevitable if you're still in contact. Maybe it's like a scab you can't resist picking, maybe it's because you both want to be right or to make your point, maybe it's because he's a jerk who just can't rest until he's stomped you into the ground. But, as I've said before, you can't "friend" him into being nice. You would have to pour all kinds of tolerance and forgiveness and compassion for him on top of all his negativity and grudge-holding to even get to zero, here. And is it worth it for you to put all that effort into just restoring the status quo? Especially when you're the only one doing it? Removing yourself from the equation is the fastest and easiest way to shut down the reaction. Without contact with him, you have no idea if he's angry or upset or saying bad things about you. Then you can stop worrying about it.

Let me say just one more thing - he knows you have unresolved feelings for him. It's way more obvious to him than it is to the people on this board. After my ex and I broke up the first time, I knew I could "get him back" because of how strongly he wanted to be my friend, how much he insisted that I *had* to be part of his life, how complimentary he was of me, how much he still admired and respected me and enjoyed talking with me. Two days after he said he couldn't date me, he's on the phone asking my advice on legal questions, making sure I'm okay, blah blah blah. Someone who's done with you, especially someone who's left you because you've done them wrong, DOES NOT behave that way. That's a person who still needs you in their life because they still need you. Your insistence on being friends, on being on good terms, on only considering your relationship a positive experience, on blaming yourself for everything that went wrong, and (most of all) your continued insistence that he's a good, valuable, positive enrichment to your life that you'd do anything to keep around, that all tells him loud as a siren that you still love him. He knows. He behaved poorly and is dating someone else, despite knowing that. I'm all for a good tell-off conversation with your ex at some point, early in the breakup. But at some point you have to look to your dignity and pride. You will not feel better about telling him how you feel, I guarantee it. Do not give him that power over you. Retain your self respect.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-14-2004
In reply to: kcl19310
Wed, 11-17-2004 - 8:52pm

Milton,

Once again, you brought up a lot of good points and seemed to know exactly what I am thinking/feeling.

The whole feedback loop thing made a lot of sense. And you got me thinking--why do I keep giving him all of this talk of friendship/forgiveness/why do I keep apologizing...when in return all he does is make me feel like sh*t. When will I realize that it isn't worth it to keep trying with him? Especially since I will never get what I truly want--him? (Why I still even want him is another issue all by itself of course).

I'm just curious about something. You posted this: "Someone who's done with you, especially someone who's left you because you've done them wrong, DOES NOT behave that way. That's a person who still needs you in their life because they still need you."

My ex dumped me because I supposedly treated him badly (not to mention he met a new girl). So why exactly did he keep talking to me after the breakup? Why did he still contact me? I know that at first, part of it was him just wanting to keep me on the back burner in case things with his new girlfriend didn't work out. But then we got into our big fight and he found out I had lied to him...and he told me that he didn't like me/had never cared/didn't want to know me, but he would still contact me. Sure, a lot of the time it was me trying and him ignoring me. But he would contact me on his own occasionally, tell me he still cared/missed me/ask me about my life...and I'm just wondering why now. I've told myself that he just wanted to hurt me more, play a game with me...and perhaps I'm right. But that comment of yours made me think--was he not done with me yet? He left me...but did he still need me? I know it doesn't matter and doesn't change anything, but I'm just confused as to why he still bothered to contact me.

As for me writing him that email...I'm still undecided. I am seriously taking your advice into consideration though. I know contacting him again will delay me from healing, but so will that nagging feeling that I've been speaking of. Then again, I know that nothing I say will mean anything to him, and that he should already how much I care. So if I do end up doing it, it's going to be for my own sake, to make ME finally feel at peace...but thank you for pointing out all the negatives that could come of it.

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