5 weeks, when will it get better :(

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-13-2004
5 weeks, when will it get better :(
14
Sat, 03-12-2005 - 4:38pm

hi all,

its been 5 weeks now since my A ended

last week was the hardest week for me so far OW and i talked on the phone and to each other and 1 email, all along i am getting mixed messages from her and even from what i get from other people

the pain is slowly going down, anxiety at work is lower but still there, i cried 2x in 6 days so its getting better and i am able to sleep longer too

still i think of her all the time, everytime we have contact in the last 6 days she was also mean to me and she would say sorry in the end and said that she is stressed out, im just saying what she told me, i need to tell u guys, i have no one to talk to at all, im doing my laundry right now and so im talking here on the board

last nite i spoke to her on the phone on the way home, it was so hard to hear her words they are so painful

i need to go on, she told me she still wants to be friends with me if and when i getr over her

i lost weight and cant seem to gain it no matter how much i eat, i have no appetite but i am forcing myself to eat

i hope this will be a good weekend for all of us, its cloudy and cool again

max

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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-08-2004
Sat, 03-12-2005 - 5:12pm

Hi Max

I am havign a really bad weekend. Going to write in a separate thread. I think for me before I was thrown a curve ball 5 weeks was my turning point. I finally felt like me again. I hope you see it that way too.

hey you are keeping busy.. that is all you can do!

Watch the friendship though. i got really burned from it! Just thought I could handle somethign when I couldnt!

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-02-2004
Sat, 03-12-2005 - 5:42pm

Max,Max,Max.... sigh,

You will *NOT* get past the pain until you end all communication with her. Each and every time you hear her voice, no matter what is coming out her mouth, is a trigger. THEN, you let her beat you down with such crap as "You need to get over me, Max. You need to get past this Max, You need to move on Max."

Here is something I think you need to read. I am posting this for EVERYONE's benefit.

Ten differences between being a martyr or a victim.

1. Martyrs are people who recognize they are being taken advantage of and choose to remain in the situation. Victims are people who are taken advantage of but are unaware of being treated as such. Once victims recognize that they are being treated unfairly, they have the choice of remaining in the situation or not. If they stay, they risk becoming martyrs.

Martyrs are those who recognize that their rights are ignored and abused but choose to remain in the situation and continue to be treated this way. Victims are individuals whose rights are ignored and abused but were unaware that they would be treated in this manner before they entered the situation.

3. Martyrs are people who let others know how unfairly they are being treated but choose to remain in this unfair position. Victims are people who let others know they have been treated unfairly. They have the chance to leave or change the situation in which they have been victimized. Victims often suffer silently for long periods of time before they are able to verbalize the unfairness of their life situations.

4. Martyrs often knowingly continue to enable or set up situations in which their rights are violated or ignored. This ``setting up'' is like a prediction or prophecy of failure into which, consciously or unconsciously, the martyrs play, fulfilling the prophecy. Victims often unknowingly set themselves up for continued abuse and violation of their rights. They are often confused and bewildered as to why this occurs. They lack insight into the actions that bring on this abuse.

5. Martyrs often seek sympathy for their plight. They seek support, advice, and help from others. Yet they seem stuck in their current course of action and seem to be unable to resolve it. Victims frequently never seek help. They are often frustrated and lost as to what needs to be done to get them out of their current situation. Once victims have been offered help and make a conscious choice to remain stuck in their situation, they become martyrs.

6. Martyrs frequently let the people whom they feel are taking advantage of them know how badly they are being treated. Martyrs often resort to badgering, nagging, scolding, threatening, belittling, antagonizing, and verbally putting down those whom they perceive to be taking advantage of them. Victims rarely let the people who are taking advantage of them know how they feel about this treatment.

7. Martyrs often believe it is their obligation to remain in their position in life. They would feel guilty if they let go of the current situation. They fear taking the risk to change the situation. They are apparently comfortable, habituated, or submissive to the situation and believe a change would be worse for them and for the others in their lives. Victims often want a change and are desperate for a solution to their situation. As soon as a victim gives in to a situation, choosing not to resolve or correct it, they become martyrs. The saying, ``If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem,'' applies to the martyr's state in life.

8. Martyrs have a story line which is stereotypic and habitual. They rarely change their tales of woe. One can meet them several years later and find them still suffering from the fate they were experiencing when you last talked to them. Victims experience their plight temporarily, get help, and are more apt to get out of the situation. If after getting help and changing, victims experience the same problems later, they could be martyrs at that time.

9. Martyrs often mask their behavior with an aura of willingness and desire for behavioral change in their lives. Usually they are only fooling themselves, since the others in their lives can see by their behavior and attitude that there is no possibility of change. Victims usually are open and honest about their discomfort and willingly seek behavioral change. Their sincerity is easily perceived by others due to the actions and behavioral changes that take place.

10. Martyrs are ``professional'' help seekers. They make the rounds of paid and volunteer helpers, advice givers, counselors, consultants, anyone willing to listen to their tale of woe. Unfortunately, they usually ignore the assistance, advice, or direction they are given. This frequently results in their ``helpers'' giving up on them in frustration and discouragement. Victims, on the other hand, seek help in a ``crisis'' only after the pressure of their problems becomes too great for them to bear. They are highly motivated for a ``change'' and are rewarding people to work with as they and their helpers witness the benefits of the help, advice, and direction given.

A comparison of victim and martyr characteristics Victim versus Martyr

V: 1. Usually has short-term problem M: Long-term problem

V : 2. Motivated to change M:Stuck in their problem

V: 3. Rights violated by others M :Rights violated by others

V: 4. Did not choose the problem M :Chooses to remain in problem situation

V : 5. Never complains M : Complains all the time

V : 6. Lacks insight into problem M: Frequently has insight into the problem

V : 7. Unknowingly plays an active part in the problem M: Frequently knowingly plays an active part in the problem

V: 8. Doesn't often seek help M: Seeks help all the time

V: 9. Wants to ``let go'' of problem M: "Holds on to'' the problem

V:10. Guilt free M: Guilt driven

V :11. Solution oriented M: Problem oriented

V: 12. Powerless due to lack of knowledge M: Powerless out of a free will choice to be so

V: 13. Unique problem M: Stereotypic, with habitual problems

V: 14. Sincere desire to change M: Mask of sincerity

V: 15. Honest to self and others about the problem M: Dishonest to self and others about the desire to change

V: 16. Hesitant to get help M: Seeks out help habitually

V: 17. Reticent to talk about problem M: Relishes the attention received in talking about the problem

V: 18. Embarrassed about the problem M: Wears problem as a badge of courage (purple heart)

V: 19. Wants a quick solution to their crisis M: Creates crises out of everything but blocks all solutions

V:20. Open to all new ideas M: Holds a "yes- but'' attitude to all new ideas

Max, you have to STOP setting yourself up for failure. Safeguard your heart so she cannot penetrate it one more minute. Change youre phone number, change your email addy and change your attitude, or NOTHING is going to change.

Id

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-13-2004
Sat, 03-12-2005 - 6:23pm

Id, Cap,

i know i recognize the my problem, it lies within me

i was reading your psot and it seems like im a M, i know that OW is not good for me, but why do i keep letting her in me, i actually still want her, i want to call her and send her email, i still want to talk to her

im going nuts, i have this urge to talk to her but i know it wont do any good anymore to talk to her, she will say the same thing again, same reasons, i guess imhoping she will change her mind

i know its all up to me, i pray everynite that i get some courage to let her go in my heart and in my mind, i felt so weak when it comes to her, its like she got some hold on me, i dont knwo what it is but i think its all the companionship and attention, albeit small that she gives me when we were together

she has pushed me away already, it is very clear she does not want me anymore, she told me she just want her kid and her job

i am exactly this ---- "Powerless out of a free will choice to be so", i know what i need to do but i cannot make myself to do it, i am stuck in the idea that she is my soulmate and i will be with her in the end

i am single and successful, have my own house, financially stable and able, u ladies will kill me coz i have OW as my beneficiary in my will, my investments, my 401K, everything, i have no family, im an orphan so i have no one but her right now, it may sound strange but i left it all to her, i have a living will/trust and all my assets are left to her

pls just shoot me and take me out ofmy misery, its how i feel sometimes, i have not even change any oo them , OW is still the beneficiary, i have told her before but i dont think she believes me but i know she know coz my lawyer has sent her a copy of everything, i even put her name so she can access my safe deposit box, she has a key to my house which she did not return, she told me she will throw it away, i did not ask fo it

pls ladies, tell me if i am a fool or what, i am realy in love with OW and i dont know what to do anymore, prior to her, my will was left to ex-wife

laundry is almost done, ill be doing some hosue cleaning next, im so confused , im just trying to keep myself busy, btw, i cant sleep in my bed, i cant fall asleep easily so i been sleeping in the cocuh for about 5 weeks now

i ladies/gents probably think im off my nockers already, the pain and confusion that i feel is so real that it holds me back and i cant seem to do anything for myself anymore

max

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-10-2005
Sun, 03-13-2005 - 6:47am
Max,
You need to change your this stuff ASAP.. Last thing I'd want is to know I'm dead and everything I worked so hard for is going to help support a woman who toyed with my emotions, she was nothing more than that. She played the game(you) and she has all the chips but one. Now take that one last chip and go "all in". You have this chance to get your life back, prevent her from using your 401k to finance her baby's daddy's new car. I'd leave my money to a charity before I'd leave it to someone like her. Don't want to be too blunt, but this situation calls for an intervention!
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-02-2004
Sun, 03-13-2005 - 7:16am

Max,

How can we help you if you are not going to help yourself?

<>>

Every single person on "Endings" wishes to still talk to them, be able to send emails, still in some way want them (Well, this is where I part ways, I can't stand the sight of him anymore ;), but you get what I am trying to say. Don't you see? You can still love someone and NOT be with them. BUT allowing them to stomp all over your heart, giving them carte blanch to play with your VERY raw emotions, and constantly reminding you that "YOU ARE NOT WHO I WANT".....well, it's time to get real, MR.!! Have you no shame???

OF COURSE YOU DO! Go look under your bed, or in the closet. I KNOW it's there somewhere.

<<>>

Ah....no she doesn't. Not anymore,remember? SHE let you go. She opened up her arms, dropped you on the floor, kicked you in the heart, and YOU let her come back over and over again to get in more kicks. Whatsup with that? Do I have to insert the thread about "TOXIC LOVE" in my post? AHHH...what the heck, I'll do it anyway....

"Love VS Toxic Love" taken from a book called: Codependence: The Dance of Wounded Souls, by Robert Burney

True Love is not a painful obsession. It is not taking a hostage or being a hostage. It is not all-consuming, isolating, or constricting. Unfortunately the type of love most of us learned about as children is in fact an addiction, a form of toxic love. "I can't smile without you," "I can't live without you," "Someday my prince/princess will come" are not healthy messages. There is nothing wrong with wanting a relationship - it is natural and healthy. Believing we can't be whole or happy without a relationship is unhealthy and leads us to accept deprivation and abuse, and to engage in manipulation, dishonesty, and power struggles.

Here is a short list of the characteristics of Love vs. Toxic Love

Love: Development of self first priority. Toxic love: Obsession with relationship.
Love: Room to grow, expand; desire for other to grow. Toxic love: Security, comfort in sameness; intensity of need seen as proof of love - may really be fear, insecurity, loneliness.
Love: Separate interests; other friends; maintain other meaningful relationships. Toxic love: Total involvement; limited social life; neglect old friends, interests.
Love: Encouragement of each other's expanding; secure in own worth. Toxic love: Preoccupation with other's behavior; fear of other changing.
Love: Appropriate Trust (trusting partner to behave according to fundamental nature.) Toxic love: Jealousy; possessiveness; fear of competition; protects "supply."
Love: Compromise, negotiation or taking turns at leading. Problem solving together. Toxic love: Power plays for control; blaming; passive or aggressive manipulation.
Love: Embracing of each other's individuality. Toxic love: Trying to change other to own image.
Love: Relationship deals with all aspects of reality. Toxic love: Relationship is based on delusion and avoidance of the unpleasant.
Love: Self-care by both partners; emotional state not dependent on other's mood. Toxic love: Expectation that one partner will fix and rescue the other.
Love: Loving detachment (healthy concern about partner, while letting go.) Toxic love: Fusion (being obsessed with each other's problems and feelings.)
Love: Sex is free choice growing out of caring & friendship. Toxic love: Pressure around sex due to fear, insecurity & need for immediate gratification.
Love: Ability to enjoy being alone. Toxic love: Unable to endure separation; clinging.
Love: Cycle of comfort and contentment. Toxic love: Cycle of pain and despair.

Well, this about all I can do for you, my friend. The rest is up to you.

Id

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-13-2004
Sun, 03-13-2005 - 12:26pm

<Love: Cycle of comfort and contentment. Toxic love: Cycle of pain and despair. >>>

Id,

that is me above, i am unable to accept OW decision, and not be happy and enjoy being alone, i am not happy at all

this is nuts, i am going to see a Therapist and i hope i can get some help on how to help myself, u r right, its all up to me

BUT why wont i dont the things i know is right for me, why do i always cling in to hope for OW, that is what i dont understand in myself, i dont understand myself at all, i know what to do, Free, u and other have given me the right advice, i know its the right thing to do but i wont do it, im in pain, i want the pain to stop but for reason unknown to me right now i cannot stop , not stop thinking of her and all the other obsessivenes that i have for OW

i must be mentally unbalance, i have no coping skills, i thought i had them, i had endured so much physical stress in my life and i was able to move foreward, but this emotional episode is none that i have encountered in my life so far

i am still at a loss up to now, my words are so different from my actions

im going crazy,
max

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-13-2004
Sun, 03-13-2005 - 12:41pm

i feel like a stupid fool, no i am a stupid fool, i have never told my friends about this( i dont have alot of friends) coz i think they will abandone me if i tell them

i dont know what i was thinking, up to now its still in OW name

i need to change it

max

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-05-2004
Sun, 03-13-2005 - 2:31pm

Max:
I am an "orphan" with no family too. I KNOW this is a big part of it...trust me. I feel lost and alone sometimes. I really wanted that guy to be my "family"..he is the first man in my life that i felt that way with...and i am 39.

Trust me...there are so many others out there. This is really a double grief for you. One would have to be in our situation to understand what I mean...I hope you do. Its hard..being in the world...thinking that no one "knows" us. She knew you. Its like another death in your family accept you chose her and loved her. Its hard at our age (i am in my late 30's) to rely on friends or even have friends like we did when we were younger...people dont bond as close just as friends like we did when we're in high school college etc...so the bonds dont seem as close etc...not like a lover or family. Old friends are into their own produced lives now...so i know ...exactly i think what you are feeling.

You will need time to heal and separate from the actual chemical addiction of her..and from the constant reminders of her. The best way to do that..is to look forward to something or someone else...to challenge yourself when you are ready (please not a moment later) ..its when i am not actually working on something future wise..is when he creeps back in my mind. YOU MUST MUST MUST...as soon as you feel strong..FORCE yourself to stop thinking....i still think..but not as often..i dont cry as often..i REMIND MYSELF OF THE CRAP...AND NOT THE GOOD TIMES...and I grieved even wanting or having to do that itself! i do that..ive gone on the net...i am meeting people. ..yes i have relapsses into depression but i am slowly realizing i dodged a bullet as my xmm is a classic sociopathic selfish manipulative unconcionable (spell) person....some catch huh? Its wierd when they stop the wooing...how they are. Yours was like that too...it was a slight con on their part or they didnt know what they were doing and we were stepping stones. IT WONT ALWAYS BE THAT WAY...there are good people out there...i was scared as hell that it was "me" but i have to believe it was "him" i just have to realize why i was attracted to and why i attracted "that". ..got it..work on bettering yourself..that is a beginning...stop mourning for them...go find you.

I was addicted to his "being" how he moved how he talked what he looked like and that we both were "orphans" and finally someone who understood my pain..he worked it. I wanted to nurture someone...he was perfect...almost everything i ever wanted....until i realized some of it was a sham. I am more grieving now my loss of brains, and my dignity, and my ethics.

ITS OVER..he is with another woman and her children..i had advised if he left his wife he'd want his freedom( (i really was trying to think smart not selfish...smart saves ya...but i had no idea how i was really saving him and myself but) i toldhim ...go live on his own or with a buddy that he had the opportunity with but no..he is with a woman and her children that he met while he was forming our "bond".. .this is not me being jealous....i encouraged him to not be with anyone for 6 months if he left his wife...so he can finally feeeeeel free (and if he ended with me..then it was not to be able to leave his wife easier but because he wanted to be with me)

...well he didnt...so i realize now...we are all just stepping stones to him. he is a lil boy ...who will always be this way...and none of the respectful things he ever said...meant nothing. If he respected things i said...he wouldve followed really good unselfish advice....he wouldve meant the respectful things back..he didnt. Now kids are involved..he is again living a fantasy and they will eventually get hurt. Sociopaths with no concience rarely change their spots. I have to start realizing how i am not a loser...but a winner...god saved me from eventual greater pain and a bigger victim/martyr.

YOU MAX...start realizing this....look to your future as being BETTER without this person..use the painful things as something you might ve had to deal with later..and be glad its sooner than later and that you'd be with her who is heartless
Change your legal stuff back to someone or some charity more deserving until you find the real love or family of your life hunny....TAKE HER OUT..i finally removed all evidence of him....i was ready and its time ..for me...when is it for you? you'll know..just dont let her know of the legal stuff..ok? never....change it when you want..but never let her know she was the beneficiary.
Like i said before....don't rob a really deserving person (you) another minute...and there is a really deserving person out there who needs you. I think you are sensative, passionate, and giving.....someone really awesome is needing someone just like you...when you are in a positive light and ready to live. Don't lean on someone until you can truly smile on your own but it doesnt hurt to at least explore the future possibilities in the meantime to strengthen your smile. You will feel after you grieve enough...that enough is enough. Trust your gut.
Lizzie

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-05-2004
Sun, 03-13-2005 - 2:45pm

its the stupid fool part i had a problem with too...i forgave myself....i realized i needed to do this. From what i take Max, you are an engineer. A brainy guy...this "stupid fool" stuff is harrrrd for smart folks to handle. FORGIVE yourself...you are human...actually a beautiful giving human. I know its perplexing that youve even gone through a divorce and that this is harder. That you've gone through alot of other grief in your life that would seemingly be 10 times harder...this is what is perplexing you. I understand. I thought I could handle ANYthing after what ive been through. I think perhaps its just that all of that previous grief..left us vunerable. We finally wanted to relax...and just love.

Now i want you to relax....and love yourself. Yes, you are going crazy,not all of it is your fault. I am sure its wierd to feel out of control ...that someone had that much control over how you feel. It was new to me too.

You've been through alot Max, in your life. I promise this too will get easier. You have to actually not like the person you loved. you are probably like me..very loyal and forgiving when we love someoen because we want that in return. You gave her latitude for who she was. No one gives that to me..i am never "enough". I wanted to prove that someone was "enough" for me even with flaws. I wanted that back. Unfair is the word. But now i am glad...i didnt...because ya know what..i'd always be wondering...how true they were.
If you are a true loyal person...you deserve another.
I am glad you are getting help...YOU DESERVE to be alive and happy. YOU WILL be. I am proud of you for thinking all this out. Some people wouldnt reach out.
I am sooo grateful for the internet...Ive learned so much, feel a lil connected when i need to feel it. Its so hard to get people to care enough..cant say some things to people who care about us..we worry about how they will feel about our emotional side etc.
proud of you max, this is just a dip ...you know just from a few weeks ago..you can feel stronger at times...those times do lengthen. Its a process...as you know..that wouldnt happen the very next day.
Proud of you Max...go get stronger...someone out there deserves you and you deserve them.
Lizzie

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-13-2004
Sun, 03-13-2005 - 3:22pm

lizzie,

are u orphaned from birth, as far as i know i was given up for adoption after birth, i have no other info, it was 1965 and i lived in foster homes all my life until i was 18

u exactly know how i feel, i treadted her like my only family, i dont have a lot of "close friends" , i mean people i can talk too, i have some close friends but they have thier own families now, my last foster family was realy nice to me and i still keep up with the children from that family, its the closest i have tp a real family although they are in chicago and they too have their own family also so i never reealy have anyone to talk, just even talk , until i meet OW, i felt so close to her and i felt like she knew me

she would say things that i think she have known me all my life, OW actually said sorry for leading me on, she said she say things in the heat of the moment or passion or when she is with me, i think that is her way of saying she lied to me, she say things that are always contradictory to what she would say like a week ago

anyways, im glad but not realy glad that there is someone out there who have almost the same life experience as me (orphan) , im sure u know what i mean when i say that i always feel alone, i always feel like that at the end of the day, ever since i can remember

i feel like i am missing out on all of the family things in life, other people seem to take it for granted to have someone, it was just that i feel for OW in the wrong sense in guess, OW told me we are in the wrong time and the timing is not right for me and her

as for the legal stuff, she knew she is my beneficiary and she actually was not comfortable with her but she never complained, she would joke that i am worth more alive than dead, i dont know what to do still

i cling to her in a way that is not healthy anymore, from one of the post its toxic love, i cling coz i feel like i am losing a family member, the only family i have and after that i will be alone again

this is how i feel, i feel so lost , its like why am i working so hard, im very succesful and for what, what am i here for, where am i going? , i ask myself sometimes and i have no answers to this, my friends always tell me i have to be happy with myself, i dont think i have felt happy in my entire life, i am always missing something, maybe i have never realy felt love and that OW might have make me felt it, or maybe not but my mind and heart seem to think so, i have never felt for OW like for anyone before

i have seen suffering in my life and i have experience suffering myself, but economically and physically and emotionally, now i only suffer emotionally and i dont know how to deal with it

im sorry for feeling so sad and alone, i have let OW inside my heart and life and now i felt like she has ruin me, sometimes i want to know if there is a pill that can erase memory and erase my emotions, ill live like a machine until i die

max
:(

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