Back from trip

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2003
Back from trip
34
Mon, 12-15-2003 - 9:58am
Hello all. Sorry that I have been out of touch. I was out of town. The anniversary trip went okay. Not great, but tolerable. We just don't know what to do without our daughter. She makes for the fun times. As we were driving to the airport my W commented on how nice it was. She has done that before when I thought the trip was a disaster. I don't understand. Does she not see the tension and the problems? I thought that it was just me until a completely objective outside party commented on how much we bicker back and forth at each other. My W just does not have the same sense of humor that I have. She does not take things well that are said in jest. I think that I have been trying to rationalize that me and OW bickered a lot at the end also. However, that was due mostly to my fence sitting. I miss the easy way that OW and I were together. Yes, there were no bills, everyday problems, etc. We just had an ease with each other. She found the same things funny that I did, she did not mind when things did not turn out the way we planned. The best thing about her was that she could laugh at herself and at less than favorable situations. If the Christmas tree fell off the roof of the car (as it did) she would become silent for a moment and then should would bust out laughing. My W just can't do that. Things like that just send her over the edge. She immediately blames me. She always apologizes later, but the damage is already done.

I guess this is why I am doing what I am doing. I need answers. I cannot break NC, though I am so tempted. I just can't. Every time that I have taken a trip alone with W, in the past, I have come running back to OW. Maybe it is just a habit that is tempting me.

Jon

P.S. Bird, I will respond in detail to your last post later on.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-07-2003
In reply to: yamacraw
Mon, 12-15-2003 - 10:55pm
In all your posts Jon, you are so afraid of loosing your daughter as you think your wife will move far away if she were to leave. Does your wife have family on the other side of the country that she would go to stay with? I should think that your W would want to maintain the relationship that you and your daughter have, for your daughter's sake. Thus she would not move too far away.

I have decided to give MC with my H a year. If we can't get that spark back (it was there 15 years ago....perhaps too much time has passed) then I don't know if I can stay in a marriage that isn't growing. As others have said, my H needs somebody who he can love and be happy with. I guess what I am asking, is if one spouse wants to grow and stretch within the framework of the M and the other spouse does not, is it time to call it "The End"?

I took a trip with xmm about 1.5 months ago. The only thing that was planned were the dinner reservations each night. I know what you mean about spontaneous vs. agenda. No, my H and I do not have anything planned. Right now I have no passion for H and can't even imagine kissing him, so staying in a hotel room with him seems like a foreign idea. I asked my T if this was a result of the A with xmm. She reminded me that I felt this way before the A. It's funny how the answer was right in front of me and I had not connected. So, I am feeling very sad and not too hopeful about getting the spark back. We did plan a family vacation to Florida over spring vacation in April.

Jon. I think you made the right decision with NC for now. It will allow you to focus on M and you. Perhaps during this time you will reach a decision and it will be made without the influence of a third party.

Sea

I have not told my husband about A. We have had only 3 sessions with MC. I am going to see how things go and make a decision about telling him. We too have been in and out of MC over the last 21 years.

Sea
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-19-2003
In reply to: yamacraw
Tue, 12-16-2003 - 12:31am
FulovLove, may I ask you a question? This may sound somewhat silly but I hope you'll understand.

You mention your H's sobriety and I'm wondering if prior to deciding to file for divorce, did your H understand and agree that your M needed to end? Was he able to identify the same problems you did or did he live in denial?

If you'd prefer to email me, please do so by clicking on my screen name within this post.

Thank you in advance.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-19-2003
In reply to: yamacraw
Tue, 12-16-2003 - 12:51am
Calistus, my apologies for assuming you're a betrayed spouse and for sounding melodramatic.

Obviously, I've not correctly described what I mean by a "connection" as it's not an easy thing to explain. It's more of a sixth sense that some couples have and most don't. It's really not a spark and especially only on an intimate level. It's much deeper and in a small way, it's as if the other person understands what one means before you say anything. It's never expressing your goals to the other and then when you do, the other person knows exactly what you mean because they've seen it in you all along. It's about not having to ask if you're in the mood to make love, it's just being there for the other because you both want to take care of each other.

It's MUCH deeper than a spark or making one's heart go pitter patter because we're sexually attracted to them.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-19-2003
In reply to: yamacraw
Tue, 12-16-2003 - 1:07am
Jon, one way to be certain you'll never go back into this or any affair is by being upfront with your wife. Not easy to do, I understand. But I'm beginning to wonder if this form of honesty is/will become the only thing that will put both you and your wife on the same page.

Until today, I don't recall reading a post from you that years ago you told your W that you're in love with someone else. What concerns me is your W's lack of reaction and willingness to address the problem back then. Things should have changed drastically for both of you at that time. Perhaps they didn't for you because the A gave you the outlet you needed and in the meantime, your M continued to be put on the back burner.

Is this one of the reasons you keep bringing up and feeling tremendously guilty about being in an affair for half your DD's life?

May I ask how long you've been seeing your current therapist?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-30-2003
In reply to: yamacraw
Tue, 12-16-2003 - 6:49am
Caring, to answer your questions....Yes, he understood what he put the kids and I through and knew that the marriage would to end. He didn't want it to but he knew that it was over. We were married 12 years when I filed. I did everything that I could to keep it together for us, but it does take 2 for that to happen. He was able to identify the same problems that were present and he wasn't living in denial. I couldn't and wouldn't accept any more. Things would not have gotten better if I hadn't divorced him number of reasons. We can e-mail if you want since this subject is off topic....

Take care,

~Love

Love
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2003
In reply to: yamacraw
Tue, 12-16-2003 - 10:12am
Hello again. I don't think that I have said anything in previous posts about telling my W about OW at the beginning of the A. It seems like a million years ago. I know that was my opportunity to really open up to my W and instead I let the guilt hold me down. This past summer I told my W that I was having trouble seeing her as my life partner. OW used to ask the very same question that you just asked. She wanted to know how could my W possibly really be happy? How could she be happy with my telling her that? She used to tell me that there were even more problems than I was willing to face because my W lived/lives in utter denial. We both do. I realize that now. As soon as I told my W that I was willing to try to have another child, she jumped on that mission and all else seems to be forgotten. I must put on a good show, though. I am ashamed of that now. To be so convincing to W and to OW. That used to drive OW crazy. She used to tell me that I must have done a great job of faking it at home. Do I? Or does my W just look the other way? Maybe she has learned to ignore me because she knows that I will not back up what I say; just like I did with OW? My W just sent out a Christmas letter saying how wonderful this year has been and how happy we are????? I was still in the A for part of this year.

I have been seeing the T now for about 2 years, at OW's urging. He was the first one that W and I went to for MC. I liked him so I went back on an individual basis. The only close friend that knows of my A does not like the advice that I get from T. Perhaps I should consider trying someone else.

I too wonder if the only way to get W and I on the same page is to confess all. If she gets pregnant, we are essentially repeating all of the same actions that led me to an A the first time. We were discussing divorce before deciding to have the first child.

Jon

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2003
In reply to: yamacraw
Tue, 12-16-2003 - 10:16am
Hi Sea. Yes, that is the only thing I do know. We will not gain anything without NC.

Jon

Hang in there. I believe you are doing the right thing. Give yourself a time limit and then stick to it, like NRE did.

Laura

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2003
In reply to: yamacraw
Tue, 12-16-2003 - 10:18am
Very good description. Perfect.

Thank you.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2003
In reply to: yamacraw
Tue, 12-16-2003 - 10:20am
Thanks Chris. That may be my biggest hurdle. I did not have that spark to begin with. I have to try, though.

Jon

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-19-2003
In reply to: yamacraw
Tue, 12-16-2003 - 11:11am
JON, JON, JON.... This will sound silly but how MANY times will it take for life to repeat itself before you say "AHA! there is my light bulb moment! I see and can actually READ the writing on that wall!"

I'm sorry, but from my perspective, BOTH you and W are trying hard to hold your marriage together on a shoestring. There is no doubt that both of you love your child more then life itself and even though I'm not a psychic, I feel that one more or even 5 more children will never change/improve your marriage. In a way, your situation reminds me of the *saving* strategies my H and I used. Ours was the result of job transfers and moving from state to state in hopes that by some miracle and lots of promises, a geographic cure would magically solve our marital problems! After each move, things were good, new and exciting but only lasted a couple months because we never made the time to address and RESOLVE the real issues and problems.

As for your therapist, he's also not a magician but you need to realize that after 2 YEARS, the marriage is status quo which tells me, it's time to find a therapist that WILL help you and W figure out how to make some major changes! By any chance, have you read or heard of Dr. Phil's Relationship Strategy book and workbook?

I would also suggest you and your wife read a book called Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay by Mira Kirshenbaum. One short paragraph says... "If you live with someone who is simply not a resource for you in any important way, then not only are you living with whatever other problems are going on that make this relationship iffy, but you're depriving yourself of the possibility of spending your life with someone different who could really be a resource for you."