Choices

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Choices
11
Wed, 06-22-2005 - 2:24pm

Did you ever reach a point in your life where you think, “I have made so many bad choices, what can I possibly do to change my fate now?”

Turns out, there’s nothing that can change your fate. You are who you are, you have to make changes within yourself or it will always be the same.

I am a cheater. I am ruining my marriage, even as I type this. I have allowed my sh*tty affair to continue for three years -- on again, off again, on again, off again. We’ve “broken up” so many times it’s a ritual. He’s getting ready to do it again. How do I know? Silence. He never calls or e-mails when he’s getting ready to run. He ignores my phone calls and e-mails. It’s like he disappears. We were supposed to have lunch today, but I’ve never heard a word from him.

I hate this, and yet I’m easily pulled in every time. I’ve been resolved to never talk to him again. The longest I’ve gone is three months. What life-altering event has to occur before I get it through my fat head that he DOESN”T WANT ME! If he did, I would be living in his house today.

I am sick of myself. What can I do to finally, finally finish this? I want him, he doesn’t want me, so why do I still want him! I can’t keep living the life of this person I’ve become. It’s not me, it’s his version of me.

I want out.

At this point, I’m afraid that to truly end it, I’ll have to have another to take his place. I know that’s not the right path, but I know myself, when I lose one guy, I look for another. Logically, I should look to my husband. Maybe I should just tell him and suffer the consequences.

I just don’t know anymore.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-11-2004
In reply to: shel0815
Wed, 06-22-2005 - 2:32pm
Welcome! I wish I had good advice to offer you, just read through my posts and you will see I am as messed up as you think you are. Keep reading and posting here. The gals (and Max) are great, they will support and give good advice that they have lived through.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-24-2005
In reply to: shel0815
Wed, 06-22-2005 - 2:50pm

WIP,

There are many of us here in your shoes. All is not lost. In fact, if I'd been in your shoes *only* 3 years into it I would be 6 years ahead of where I am now. Yes, that's right. I was in an A for 9 years. BUT the good news is I'm out now.

There isn't anything drastically different about ending it and where you're at. You just have to start again and resign yourself to stick to it. Just because you've not been able to complete the task yet does not mean you are not up for it now. Don't lose faith in yourself. You are stronger than you know.

I did finally admit to myself that I didn't think I could do it competely on my own. I think I could end this A on my own, but I had the same fear that I wouldn't be solving the problem. I am seeing a T and it's really helped. In order for me to NOT do this again I needed to change my core. And the T is helping with that.

Keep posting... you are not alone. WIP

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
In reply to: shel0815
Wed, 06-22-2005 - 3:50pm

I think therapy is going to have to come into play.

I actually posted on this board a lot last fall (miss that Posie!), when I thought I had ended this mess. I slowly stopped writing when my affair started again. I didn't feel I deserved the support when I was doing the exact same things others were trying to stop.

I just don't get my reactions sometimes. Before I was married, when I was dating, I would have NEVER let a guy play me like this. I didn't need to. There was always a new guy who was looking for the chance to treat me right.

Anyone here think they are a relationship addict? I used to think I had a sexual addiction, but my home life is very fulfilling in that regard. Now I'm starting to think I have a relationship addiction, where I need to excitement of a new relationship, despite the fact that I have a pretty good thing going at home.

Any thoughts on that?

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-24-2004
In reply to: shel0815
Wed, 06-22-2005 - 5:10pm

I was in your shoes and tried to end my A about 7 times within the 11 months. It's interesting though, that my xMM was the one who wanted to have the A in the first place, yet he claimed to have the guilts all the time.

Oh yes! xMM used to distance himself only to come back to me and lure me back in with a "I miss you so much" vm, or "I saw you on the train and it breaks my heart seeing you so sad", blah, blah, blah.

<<<>>

Good question! Well, the answer on my part is that I confessed the A to my H, which shut the door to my A for GOOD! I didn't intend to tell my H about my A, because I basically risked my whole life coming clean. But because of my xMM's sh**y approach the way he just ended it cold hearted, it threw me off the edge. The pain was just too much to handle. And yes, when it ended I walked the earth like a zombie.

My H gave me a second change, but he is HURT!

I really don't know what other way to end an A. I tried it many times before and always failed at it. Each time xMM and I ended it, after a few days of NC, either he would call me up, or I would call him, and we were right back in the A again. Even with this last break up, he still told me "Oh, but I wanna remain friends". I guess this is their way of keeping us around just in case the going gets tough at home and they need an escape.

If you want out, make a list for yourself of ALL the bad qualities that your xMM had. Who was the one making all the effort? Was he into you as much as you were into him? Were you always the one calling him?

Please do the right thing and end it for all. You have an H at home, just like I do. Now that my H knows and how much I hurt him, I can't even tell you how bad I feel.

I can't say you should tell your H, because you will be taking a HUGE risk, like I did, but if you have a good H, I would give him and your M a chance and end the A.

JMHO,
PG

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-24-2005
In reply to: shel0815
Wed, 06-22-2005 - 5:58pm

Shel,

I'm not a T but from what I've read all the addictions are somewhat the same.

It probably doesn't matter if it's sex or the thrill of a new relationship that you're after. It's coming down to trying to fill the void with someting external.

Everything I've read basically comes down to us learning to cope and fill that void from within ourselves. And learning to look in the right places to have those needs met (this is the hard part - looking back to H for some of those needs).

I'm not there yet, but I am the closest I've ever been.

WIP

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2005
In reply to: shel0815
Wed, 06-22-2005 - 7:20pm

This is something from the awesome coping.org website - My own T gave me the link a long time ago and years on I still make full use of this free resource.

I've abbreviated simply because it's long and not all 10 hooks are likely to pertain to everyone. The solutions to each of the 10 problems follows on from the "..." where I've cut & pasted, the link gives you the answers/solutions to coping with these 10 emotional hooks. The links on the left are also worth exploring.

http://www.coping.org/relations/boundar/alertb.htm

"10 Emotional Hooks in Relationships"

1. Lack of Individual Identity
Maybe you are hooked by the irrational belief that: "I am a nobody without a somebody in my life." If you are, you maintain no boundaries with your relationship partners because you are very dependent in getting your identity from being with your partners. You are willing to do whatever it takes to make the relationships happen, even if you have to give up your health, money, security, identity, intelligence, spiritual beliefs, family, country, job, community, friends, values, honor and self-respect...

2. Scarcity Principle
Maybe you are hooked by the scarcity principle of feeling happiness: "because the current status of our relationship is better than anything we have ever had before." This is a common problem for people recovering from low self-esteem who have faced trials and challenges in relationships in the past...

3. Guilt
Maybe you are hooked by irrational guilt that you must think, feel and act in ways to insure that your relationships are preserved, secured and nurtured no matter what personal expense it takes out of you. You feel guilty if the your relationship partners are not succeeding or thriving without your personal resources, energy, money, time and effort going in to making such success happen. You have a problem of feeling over-responsible for the welfare of your relationship partners and cannot allow your partners to accept personal responsibility, to make choices and live with the consequences of these choices...

4. Inability to Differentiate Love from Sympathy
Maybe you are hooked by the inability to differentiate the difference between love and sympathy or compassion for your relationship partners. You find yourself feeling sorry for your relationship partners and the warm feelings which this generates makes you think that you are in love with them. The bigger the problems your relationship partners have, the bigger the "love" seems to you. Because the problems can get bigger and more complex, they succeed in hooking you to lower your boundaries so that you begin to give more and more of yourself to your "pitiable" relationship partners out of the "love" you feel...

5. Helplessness and Neediness of Relationship Partners
Maybe you get hooked by the neediness and helplessness of your relationship partners. You find yourself hooked when your partners get into self-pity, "poor me" and "how tough life has been." You find yourself weak when your relationship partners demonstrates an inability to solve personal problems. You find yourself wanting to teach and instruct, when your relationship partners demonstrate or admit ignorance of how to solve problems. You find yourself hooked by verbal and non-verbal cues which cry out to you to "help" your relationship partners even though your partners have the competence to solve the problem on their own. You find yourself feeling warmth, caring and nurturing feelings which help you tear down any shred of boundaries you once had. These sad, weak, distraught, lost, confused and befuddled waifs are so needy that you lose all concept of space and time as you begin to give and give and give. It feels so good...

6. Need to be Needed
Maybe you get hooked by the sense of being depended upon or needed by your relationship partners. There is no reason to feel responsible for your relationship partners if they let you know that they are dependent upon and need you for their life to be successful and fulfilled. This is over‑dependency and is unhealthy. It is impossible to have healthy intimacy with overdependent people because there is no give and take. Your relationship partners could be parasites sucking you dry of everything you have intellectually, emotionally and physically. You get nothing in return except the "good feelings" of doing something for your relationship partners. You get no real healthy nurturing, rather you feel the weight of your relationship partners on your shoulders, neck and back. You give and give of yourself to address the needs of your relationship partners and you have nothing left to give to yourself...

7. Belief that Time will Make it Better
Maybe you get hooked by the belief that: "If I give it enough time things will change to be the way I want them to be." You have waited a long time to have healthy intimate relationships, you rationalize: "Don't give up on them too soon." Since you are not sure how to have them or how they feel, you rationalize that maybe what the relationships need is more time to become more healthy and intimate. You find yourself giving more and more of yourself and waiting longer and longer for something good to happen and yet things never get better. You find that your wait goes from being counted by days, weeks or months to years. Time passes and things really never get better. What keeps hooking you are those fleeting moments when the relationships approximate what you would like them to be. These fleeting moments feel like centuries and they are sufficient to keep you holding on...

8. Belief that It Must be All of My Fault that there are Problems in the Relationships
Maybe you get hooked by the belief that: "If I change myself more things will change to become more like I want them to be in my relationships." You rationalize that maybe the reason things are not getting healthier and more intimate is because you need to change more to be the person your relationship partners wants you to be. You feel blamed and pointed out by your relationship partners as the reason why things are not healthier or more intimate in your relationships. You find yourself having to defend yourself from attacks from your relationship partners for "not being good enough" or "doing enough" to make the relationships work. You find yourself with a mounting list of expectations, duties or responsibilities, given you by your partners, which must be accomplished if the relationships are ever to become what you want them to be. You find yourself needing to change the ways you think, feel, act, dress, talk, look, eat, work, cook, entertain, have fun, socialize, etc before you will be "good enough" for your relationships to work. You find that you will have to basically give up "who you are" for "who your partners want you to be" if the relationships are ever to work. You find yourself hooked by the challenge to change and you find yourself working harder and harder to effect the change. What keeps you hooked is the affirmation and reinforcement you get from your relationship partners when you effect a small change. The only problem is that there is always something else identified which needs to be changed after the last change has been accomplished. You are in a never ending loop of needing to change and unfortunately there never seems to be an end to it...

9. Fear of Negative Outcomes for Relationship Partners
Maybe you get hooked by the fear of the possible negative future outcome if you are not deeply involved in taking care of and fixing your relationship partners. You may be aware of the hooks which keep you boundary-less with your partners. Yet you are afraid to LET GO of the control you have with your relationship partners for fear something very negative might happen to them. Maybe you fear that your relationship partners would become: homeless, hungry, jobless, poor, lonely, scared, go to jail or worse yet die if you do not continue to fix and take care of their needs. This fear of the possible negative future outcomes is so debilitating, that it feels better being sucked dry intellectually, emotionally and physically than to LET GO and watch your relationship partners suffer these feared awful negative outcomes. You find yourself powerless to keep from doing the healthy thing because of the intensity of this fear. You have become a prisoner in the prison of these relationships. You have become a hostage of very powerful, needy, helpless, manipulative "hostage takers." You are a possession of your relationship partners. You find yourself doing all you are asked to insure that these possible negative dreaded outcomes do not happen. You are being emotionally blackmailed and may even have heard threats of suicide if you say you want to change or get out of the relationships the way they are...

10. Idealism or Fantasy Thinking"
Maybe you are hooked by the fantasy or ideal about how it is supposed to be. You have an ideal, dream or image in your mind of how relationships are supposed to be or how they should be and you have a difficult time accepting them the way they really are. You work hard at making your relationships approximate your idealized fantasy. You put a great deal of time, energy and resources into making them become a reality. Unfortunately the more you give and give, the fantasy never becomes the reality you are wishing for. The pull to make the fantasy become real is very powerful. You seem brainwashed into believing that it is possible even though all of your efforts have not made it happen, after years and years of effort on your part. You get hooked by the delusion of the fulfillment of the fantasy and live as if the fantasy has become reality. You are sometimes so out of touch with reality that you appear to be psychotic to others when you discuss your relationships. They know they are not real and in some cases do not even closely approximate what you are saying. You keep pouring your resources, energy and time into empty pits which seem to never get filled. You become obsessed into acting and looking like the fantasy is real. You get hooked into waiting for the "big pay off" down the road if you just stick with your relationships. You remain loyal to the belief that it will happen one day. "Wake up and get off the fantasy train before it runs off the track!" you hear people saying but ignore their warnings and keep blindly on, in search of your quest...

Coping.org is a Public Service of James J. Messina, Ph.D. & Constance M. Messina, Ph.D., ©1999-2005 James J. Messina, Ph.D. & Constance Messina, Ph.D. Note: Original materials on this site may be reproduced for your personal, educational, or noncommercial use as long as you credit the authors and website.

~LeFeen~

"There came a time when the risk to remain tight in the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. " ~Anais Nin~
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2005
In reply to: shel0815
Wed, 06-22-2005 - 9:54pm

shel

>"Turns out, there’s nothing that can change your fate. You are who you are, you have to make changes within yourself or it will always be the same."<

TRUE so get into T and do something about it rather then just bemoaning it. You can learn to make better choices I am not saying it is quick or it is easy but it can be done BY YOU with the proper help.

Free

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2003
In reply to: shel0815
Thu, 06-23-2005 - 8:47am

<<>>

You've stumbled onto one of my most solid theories on how seemingly intelligent, reasonably satisfied people continue to chase after these crazy A's despite the consequences and despite KNOWING what they're doing is crazy.

I'm not sure that you need to label yourself a "relationship" addict because there are all sorts of addictions out there - gambling, drugs, sex, food, shopping - and we (I say "we" because I'm a drug addict in recovery) have the same challenge in life - a void at the center of our being. We try to fill this void with all kinds of "handy" things, things more easily accessible than what it really takes to fill the void. We try clothes, men, chocolate, alcohol, you name it. Anything that will take away the pain of the void quickly.

The problem is that the void cannot be satisfied that way. So, now matter how detrimental the consequences and now matter how aware you are of what you're doing to yourself and your marriage, you can't seem to stop yourself. We define "insanity" as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

At this point, if you are going to successfully end this A, you're going to have to take a long, deep look at yourself. This usually isn't easy, and usually requires some professional help. You need to look at your behaviors and motivation and figure out WHAT the A does to you, what need it fills, what feelings it brings up, and then look closely at those things. Ultimately, you will need to either a) find another healthier way to fill the void, or b) admit that the part of you that the A appeals so much to is unhealthy and work to heal it. Unfortunately, this is neither an easy nor quick process.

We all eventually learn that filling the void, and true happiness, can only come from within US. We can't get it filled by external things, even though those things seem more appealing and more accessible. This journey is heading toward self-actualization, and its a long, arduous process.

Please hang in there. Just because you haven't succeeded before in ending this A doesn't mean you won't succeed this time. We'll help. Love, Mo.

mo 7-18-10

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
In reply to: shel0815
Thu, 06-23-2005 - 6:16pm

Thanks for all your responses on this topic. You are an insightful and intelligent bunch. Most of this I've heard before, but I sure needed that reminder!

It's funny how a new day brings a new perspective. I ended it again, for the final time. (I'll keep repeating that until it's true.)

I've found a therapist who specializes in extra marital affairs and I've promised myself to get to the bottom of this issue. I cannot live with the assumption that this is just part of my personality and I have to deal with it. I don't want to do this affair bit again.

Thanks again for helping me find my way!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
In reply to: shel0815
Fri, 06-24-2005 - 12:36pm

Dear Shel,


It seems to me you are at a place in life to look at yourself and where you want to go from here while living in truth.


I suggest you begin come counseling sessions ASAP. As you stated in your post, YOU have put yourself into your affair for the past 3 years. And you don't like yourself or your actions. Resolve to

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