closure, without closure

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-13-2004
closure, without closure
14
Tue, 07-20-2004 - 12:18pm
I posted this on another strand yesterday, and someone suggested i start my own, so here is my original posting:

Ok, so this is my first time writing, though I've been reading for a while, and you seem like a thoughtful, gentle group of people, and so I would like to ask your advice. I was involved in an affair with a MM for about 5 months, ending over half a year ago. I am not married, but I live w/ my partner and we've been together for many years. When I met MM, my partner and I were engaged--after meeting MM, I broke it off shortly after (thank god my partner was patient with me, and is still around, though we are not engaged and he doesn't know about A). MM didn't tell me, but his wife was pregnant at the time (i didn't find this out until the baby was a couple months old!). Lovely, I know. We met kind of randomly, clicked instantaneously, and from there--I don't know. I pursued him initially (with his encouragement)--I didn't know he was married. But once he made the decision to do this, he was no holds barred. I was already fallen by the time I knew he was married, but after that I knew what I was doing; I wanted it, all of it. He was kind and generous; I always sort of felt like he was doing this for me (but there are reasons in my past that I have to think that that was a perception based more on neurosis than reality). Anyway, it started to fade--we said some things we didn't mean to say, got scared, and both started to pull away, but he got there first. went away on vacation and never came back to me! (i knew he wasn't going to...) I had just wanted to end it decisively, through communication--i've a bit of an abandonment complex (father issues), and this was devastating to me. i spent five months tortured--rebuilding things w/ my P, but internally thinking of MM. Ran into him five months later--he told me he couldn't say goodbye to me and so he just left. I wanted to believe him. Ran into him again six weeks after that, and we talked more about what had happened--he was falling in love with me, etc, etc. Each of these times it was he who insisted on initiating conversation, instead of letting us walk past each other. So I said I needed to talk to him--not to see him in the street and chat--but to sit down and conclude this, because I couldn't get over him without saying my bit. He said we would; we set a date and time. He never called. I realize his actions indicate unequivocally that he cares not at all for me; I'm not really interested anymore in analyzing why he does/says the things he did and said. What I really so desperately want is to move on and not be saddened by this experience, in some small part of me all the time. How do I create closure when he won't let me have it as I understand it? (If he had ever let me have that final conversation, I would have done what you all have done, and ended it. He wouldn't let me have it.)

I really appreciate your thoughts and your advice.



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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2003
Tue, 07-20-2004 - 12:48pm
Hi.

I guess my question is why do you need to have this conversation with him? Do you want to hurt him? Make him feel guilty? Make him want you back? Is it like Alanis Morrisette’s song “You Oughta Know?”

“And I'm here to remind you

Of the mess you left when you went away

It's not fair to deny me of the cross I bear that you gave to me.”

I’m not trying to be hard on you. I just want you to ask yourself those questions. What purpose will a final conversation with him serve?

I am trying to end an affair. The man I’ve been involved with wants to have some type of “conversation” with me for some reason. I’ve been putting it off. The more time that elapses the more I’m able to heal and let him go. A conversation with him is going to throw me right back into the place I was when it was first over. And I thought I was going to die.

Time is your friend. Put as much time between you and him as possible. That’s your best chance.

Much luck and love,

Mislead

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-02-2004
Tue, 07-20-2004 - 2:03pm
<<<>>>

He also went on a vacation and never contacted you again. You know, sometimes I think we attract people into our lives to teach us much needed lessons that we should learn. This guy was all about you having to face up to your *abondonment* issues. IMO, this is the only purpose he came into your life....

Honey, you do NOT need closure from this guy. You need to talk to a counselor and find out what it is about being abondoned that is still tearing you up inside, and how to let go of this pain once and for all, because there will be many situations where there won't be closure...I hate to see you suffer all of your life because of this need....

Your XMM is one of those non-confrontational cowards that can't deal with REAL feelings and REAL issues. Let it go! He's not worth your agonizing over. He's not worth you being only partially available for your partner when it comes to your emotions. It's time to talk to someone about your childhood.

Good luck and forget about this man,

True

 

 

Avatar for kassieree
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-29-2003
Tue, 07-20-2004 - 11:01pm
I have to agree with the other 2 posters on this. This guy can't give you the closure you look for. Only you can give you that. I tried to get closure with my XMM after he stopped talking to me over a silly misunderstanding & in the end we just started seeing each other for another 3 months before he moved away without even saying goodbye. That only left far more questions than i'd been left with the first time around. Closure for me only came after i was able to forgive myself for not listening to the warning signs in my head that said i would never see him again after he moved away. But i was still silly enough to sleep with him for the first time the last time i saw him. I didn't realise this would be the last time as we were supposed to spend the day together on his last day here. Instead i never heard a word from him except to reply to my msg wondering what was happening, his msg saying that he wasn't alone as his W had not left ahead of him as planned. She didn't leave ahead of him because he no longer needed her to after he got the only thing he was waiting for the last time i saw him. To have sex with me. I pity this man if that was enough after all we shared. Doesn't say much for what else is in his life. I knew there was a possibility that i wouldn't hear from him after he moved away but i never thought he would leave without saying goodbye. That was last october & i haven't heard a word since. No email, no phone call, no txt msg & not even an ordinary letter. So you see the closure i was looking for after the first time around only opened up more unanswered questions when i went looking. Closure comes from within. For me that closure started after i learned to forgive myself for being silly enough not to listen to the warnings signs that were so clear to me.

You can find closure within yourself without his help. It just may take time. For some people it just takes a little more time than for others. Cherish what you have with your partner & be thankful you got the chance to rebuild. For me i just treasure even more the wonderful man i am married to because he has always been there for me. Thankfully i didn't realise that too late.

{{{{{HUGS TO YOU}}}}}

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-07-2004
Tue, 07-20-2004 - 11:26pm
I was in a similar situation just recently, and I don't even know how I got through the week...much less the last 6 months. In a way, I think you'll ultimately find it easier than I did, since you probably don't see your MM almost every day, that you're life is not so intricately intertwined with his family the way mine was (his W and I are friends, our kids are friends, our jobs are quite intertwined, our friends are all the same), and it was absolute torture, a complete hell having to see him all the time and yet he wouldn't sit down and talk with me for 15 minutes to get the closure I needed when suddenly he became unavailable to me after the deepest, most satisfying emotional and sexual experiences of my life.

So here's my warning: (and an explanation for anyone that read any of my previous posts before I dropped off the face of the earth after a very difficult week)

I finally got what I thought I wanted and needed. I decided the only way I was going to be able to survive was just to not have any contact with him at all because I was being eaten up from the inside out. So I ignored him big time. Didn't play nice-nice the way I normally did. I just pretended he wasn't even there, or gave one word answers when spoken to and just got the heck out of the area as soon as possible. He noticed. He told me. I told him that I felt I'd been trying to have a 15 minute conversation with him for the past 6 months, and he was so unavailable that I couldn't even get any closure, and I'd had it holding up both ends of our friendship. Out of that he finnally offered to make some time for me, that evening, and we met in a semi-public place, talked for about an hour, and we ended up hugging and kissing in a dark place. A week later we met for about a half hour and got naked. And 4 days later I met up with him completely unexpectedly, nobody was the wiser, we were all alone, and when I asked him if he wanted to sit down and hang out for a few minutes, he had better things to do...like go home and sleep and shop at the grocery store. So I'm pretty much back to where I was before, feeling stupid that I gave him another chance to give me some attention, and he's already rejected me...and so soon!

I had finally decided I could get closure without necessarily involving him in it, and then I went and screwed it up by getting sucked into the overwhelming desire to have a conversation with him about it. If you REALLY want to end it, don't bother including him in your closure. Just close the door and walk away. If you want to try to see if the door's open (and risk getting it slammed in your face in short order - or if you're lucky, the door will open further and you'll be invited in - but for how long? ), hold out for the traditional old conversation closure. But going that route has put me right back where I was a few weeks ago.
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-13-2004
Tue, 07-20-2004 - 11:37pm
Hi, and thank you. You know, that last line you quoted captures exactly what I feel, but the first two, not at all. It isn't about me wanting to him to see the mess he left, or to make him feel guilty. That's the last thing I want, absolutely. But I do feel like the decision to have the A was a mutual one (sort of--he didn't tell me until a month in! but I went along after), and so the decision to end it ought to be as well. And so, yes, at this point, I feel he has an obligation to me to give me that satisfaction. The most frustrating part of this was back when he left, if he had said, hey, it's time--i'm leaving, i would have said, you're right, best of luck and goodbye; i'm glad we met. I don't know how I would have felt after, but I'm sure it would have been far better than that time (and yes, while I knew I wasn't going to die, I felt like I wanted to). And at this point, I wouldn't feel, well, cheated, which is how I feel (kind of ironic). I just want(ed) that mutuality; and by refusing to give it to me--by cheating me of it by running away--it became unequal. I would have let him go--I was about to go myself. And now, instead, he (broke my heart and) left me holding on. For months. I said a little of this to him; I actually called after I saw him and we talked and I said I needed closure, you won't give it to me so I am doing this myself, just calling to say goodbye, and to tell you I would have said the same the first time, it's important to me; and he said I wish you wouldn't do this over the phone, let's talk about this in person. And I doubtingly agreed, and we got off the phone, and he was gone again.

If I think too much about this, I get back in the useless cycle of trying to imagine what he was thinking and why he said the things he did and acted in this way and that, so inconsistently, and I don't want to do that anymore; I'll never know. I just want to be free of this, as you say. Posting on this board and hearing responses from so many has actually been tremendously helpful and freeing. I felt better today than I have in ages, and I already feel so much more distant and internally complete. I am so grateful.

And as for your situation, I don't know much about it, but if it's the same as mine in reverse, then I would say give him a chance to say his piece, because that just might be what he needs to achieve peace. If, however, it is not the same situation in reverse--and your words after suggest that it is not--I would be careful. If he's like mine, and a little manipulative, the "conversation" he wants to have with you may very well just be a chance for him to see if and feel that he can still exert sway over you. And that will leave you where I am--feeling duped again.

Anyway, thank you again, very sincerely.

Luck (in and) and love as well.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-13-2004
Tue, 07-20-2004 - 11:51pm
oh, kassieree, i am so sorry. believe me when i say i know your pain, because mine was more or less the same story. as soon as he got what he wanted (for me it was not the sex--it was the mind game i think that my man was after; he wanted me to fall in love with him), he was gone. and it's crazy when that happens--when you share something with someone and they disappear. it's cruel, really. it is.

i am glad to hear your partner also stayed (it breaks my heart a little to think of the nights i would start crying for no reason and my partner would comfort me, not knowing why i was so sad, only that i was, and he wanted me not to be). I also don't know your situation, or why you have a broken heart next to your name (i presume over the affair); but i hope you follow your own good advice, and move forward, peacefully. take the broken heart away. ;)

hugs to you.





Edited 7/21/2004 12:01 am ET ET by askme28

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-13-2004
Tue, 07-20-2004 - 11:57pm
sorry for all the messages, but i wanted to respond to everyone who was kind enough to take time to write to me, and i don't think i can do it offline. anyway, true, i agree--i need help! ;) it's all very deep and thick and there are so many hidden things in all of these relationships, and mine definitely makes that point. recognizing it does help, but it's hard sometimes to maintain that objectivity. i'll try.

thank you.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-04-2003
Wed, 07-21-2004 - 12:32am
Hi, I just wanted to say that I feel so sad for you. I know what it is like to feel like you need that closure of a conversation and to not get it. I was involved with a wonderful man, very loving and gentle. He moved away about 10 months ago, but we kept in touch via phone and email up until a couple months ago. We were actively discussing plans for a future... marriage, more kids, careers... the whole picture. Then he just quit calling or emailing. I sincerely thought he had his own personal issues to work out and it never even entered my mind there was someone else in the picture. Then one day about a month ago I looked at his profile online and found all this stuff about his new love. By the end of that weekend his whole account had been deleted. I am still filled with a longing for closure... be it a phone call, email, instant message, anything. It is so hard for me to believe the man who gave me so much love and care could do something so horrible as this. I don't even mean there being someone else, I can come to terms with that, but the terrible way he chose for me to find out. Every day I feel like what we shared should be honored with a "goodbye" of some kind and this just isn't it.

I have since found an email address for him and am debating whether I want to email him and ask for that closure. He is half way across the country so there is no chance of falling back into a sexual thing with him.

The first time I posted on this board, someone suggested that I write a letter (one never intended to be sent) to him, telling him everything that was in my heart. And then to take the letter and burn it... as some sort of self-closure. It might help, I haven't done it yet. I am pretty sure writing it would help, not sure if I can make myself burn it though.

I do know the days get easier though. I can actually make it through the occasional day without crying now and at first I completely felt like I was going to die. Like you, I have someone at home that never knew about the A. He has watched me cry my eyes out many times without a clue as to what was wrong. Its very hard to come up with excuses that sound plausible when I'm crying like someone just died, but sometimes I just can't hold it in till I'm alone. But, this board does help. I know there is a brighter future out there for both of us.

((((Hugs))))

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-13-2004
Wed, 07-21-2004 - 1:32am
Oh, again, i understand. i said that earlier to someone--my wonderful man at home would sit next to me and hug me as i cried (yes, like someone died), and he didn't know why i was crying. now, i am so much more thankful of him, though of course he'll never know he helped me over a broken heart.

re: moving past it; posting here has worked for me, a lot. i feel much better. if you have his email, i say use it--i know i would have if i had had it. (the burning of letters i never intended to send doesn't really work for me!) say what you need to say. my one warning though--if you can, say it without asking for or expecting a response. just say what you need to say to him--that you feel you deserved a goodbye and that it was unnecessarily nasty and hurtful for him not to give it to you. that he's a coward, if you want to. but don't ask--don't ask him anything. just say. and then say goodbye. and you have to say goodbye because once he's treated you like this, he isn't someone you could or would want to ever be with again anyway. so you should mean goodbye when you say it.

i hope the days have gotten easier, and get easier still. i actually don't cry anymore, or only before my period! ;) and i don't think i will again, over this. he's not worth crying over, if this is how he acts. i thought he was someone who he obviously wasn't, and so there's no loss, because the thing never existed. i think it's the same with you. go back to the man who loves you, and who you used to love, and love him again. or love someone else. but the other doesn't exist.

I remember at the outset of my A, as I was working through why this man came along and blew me out of the water, and all of my feelings for my partner suddenly changed--I asked my partner why he didn't say romantic, charming things to me (that MM said, but I didn't say that!) or talk to me about life and dreams and whatever else, and he looked at me and said, "you know, the only men who speak like that are womanizers." Funnily enough, turned out he was absolutely right! He's there for me, he loves me, and we have fun. That's what a relationship is about.

I hope this helps. Please feel better, and keep writing.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-13-2004
Wed, 07-21-2004 - 1:41am
same with me; i called to have my closure and say goodbye and i told him so, and then he tricked me by saying he would rather we talk about this in person. we even set a date and time! and then he never followed through. i should have stopped after i did what i wanted to do; i never should have agreed to meet him. he turned it all around. i guess he wanted to feel like he had the upper hand. i don't understand it, but i certainly understand now that he isn't worth my time. i'm just glad i'm not his wife!

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