At a crossroad

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-03-2005
At a crossroad
15
Fri, 03-04-2005 - 1:39am

Hi. I am a MW of 5 1/2 years who started seeing a SM (although he has a live-in girlfriend), 10 years my senior, that I met at a temporary job about 4 months ago. When I met this OM my M was suffering - my H had lost his job, we hadn't been sexually active in over a month, and I had lost a great deal of respect for my husband as a man. Although our problems began early on in the marriage, we typically just swept them under the rug until an argument allowed us to pull the rug back, and enjoyed each other's companionship and love for the most part. We had a lot of good days as well as bad.

I am an overachiever who has always strived for more, which has led to many successes. My H is a highschool drop-out who only obtained his GED after I nagged him constantly for months and signed him up for class - but he did get it. He has no desire to earn a degree although his father left him a paid education (up through a masters). When my H began suspecting that I was having an A, he stepped his game up, agreed to marriage counseling (which he didn't believe in beforehand), and enrolled in a trade school. I am a 3rd year law student, set to graduate in less than 2 months and am starting to think more about my future and what I want out of life. My H has made it clear that he is satisfied with what we have now (a house, dog, and 2 decent cars and a truck - the simple life) but I want more. We are in marriage counseling and it seems to be helping but I am still dealing with issues from the A.

I tried to end the A a couple of times after 4 weeks of realizing that I was having an A, but each attempt only lasted 2-3 weeks before I made contact or responded to the OM's contact. Just yesterday, after 3 weeks apart, I saw the OM and agreed to have just a friendship but late last night I realized a friendship is probably impossible. I still miss the OM deeply and I am not yet ready to let go. After yesterdays conversation and email -in which I stressed us being just friends- I have not heard from him and I have not made C either. My mind tells me to move on but my heart keeps holding on and all of me is still wanting some closure before I say it's completely over. I have been dishonest w/ the OM about my marriage - exaggerating how bad it is, and I want to be honest before I end it. I also want to tell my husband about the OM because I think it would help me in our M and move on with life but I am extremely scared to (I'm afraid of hurting my H and that he will end our M). I have been able to be very open and honest with my H about most anything until I started having an A and I know it's why I am unable to open up w/ my H and connect now as we had in the past. I have put a lot of energy into prayer, reading my bible, and journaling but I am still experiencing a lot of sorrow.

When I weigh the pros and cons of everything I realize my H is a wonderful man (respectful, fun, handsome, my HS sweetheart - but not interested in big ideas, dreams, and aspirations). I do eventually want to have children and I believe my H would be a GREAT dad. The OM has a history of cheating, has been M 2x, has 5 kids with 4 W, and is very needy. I want my M to work but there are many things I have problems accepting in it (i.e., my H's desire to let me be the breadwinner when we do have kids, poor money mgt as a couple, mismatch educational values, and mismatch passion for spiritual growth). I do not want the OM's problems but I want him to stick around (have my cake and eat it too syndrome) because of how he makes me feel. I had stopped doing many of the things I enjoy because of my unhappiness (which I've now discovered was w/ myself) but after meeting the OM became reinspired. I also began counseling immediately after the OM and I had IC, the first time.

Since I met the OM I have become a bit happier but mostly because of the counseling - personal and marriage. I do enjoy writing to him because I LOVE to write and he is very responsive to my writing and communicates on my level. He has also said many times that he will leave his girl and really wants to be w/ me. He has even said that he wants to marry me, but of course I am already M. I often feel that he cares about me more than I care about him. However, I am very depressed after each 2-3 weeks I stay away to end it. At this point I want the OM to be a close friend that I email regularly but have no physical contact with and I want my H to know about him. I also want to stay M and get things back to normal. Is this an oximoron? Is it safe to contact the OM one last time for closure? Can I move on even though my heart hasn't completely let go? Is my marriage salvagable? Should I tell my husband everything? What are some of the best ways to occupy one's time when trying to move on?

My H works 3rd shift and so I'm alone at night. My prayers, bible reading, and journaling keeps me busy during this time but my mind still wanders to the OM. And, it's during this time that I have broken down and re-initiated contact, always via email. I know this A isn't right but a part of me likes the thrill. The OM's girl knows of me and has a record of the phone calls. She broke up his 2nd M and they are not the happy couple. BUT, I don't want him to leave her because I know he will then come after me. I still want to straddle the fence, like I said - have my cake and eat it too, but it's purely for selfish reasons (he's handsome, a successful business guy, prays and reads his bible regularly, is active in the community and church, and is extremely intelligent AND emotionally open - i like an emotional man). I have no interest in the baggage, just him. Is this an oximoron? He reminds me a lot of my dad who has always been a womanizer and is cheating on my step-mom to this day (w/ 3-4 women). I think this has a huge impact on me and is part of the reason why I am even intrested in the OM. Should I extend my counseling? How do I regain the feelings I had for my H? Anyone out there with a similar story? I have come to see myself as a spoiled brat with a great H who wants it all, especially since I think I would be happier in my M if my H had a degree and wanted more in life too - mostly material things but a relationship w/ Christ also ranks high. I am at a crossroad - any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much!

~Beautifully Human

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iVillage Member
Registered: 10-22-2003
Fri, 03-04-2005 - 8:21am

My pastor said something that really hit home with me a few weeks ago. He said that we should listen to God - don't try to ignore Him because if God has to shout to get our attention, it's going to hurt. Well I ignored God and continued an A, even after I realized what I had gotten myself into and that it was wrong. I "heard God shouting" when XMM's W called my H. And my pastor was right - it hurt. It hurt me, my H, XMM, his W and a host of other people. And you know what? I STILL didn't listen. It had to happen TWICE before I finally REALLY HEARD.

If you are posting here it means that you know you are headed for trouble. I think you know that you need to end things with MM. You can't take an honest and clear look at your M as long as MM is in your life. I know you THINK you are looking at things clearly, but you really aren't. I thought I saw my M clearly too, but I know now that I didn't. If you ever want to find peace and joy in your life, you'll need to get off the fence, really assess your M and go from there. I know how hard it is, believe me I do. It is so very worth it though!

I wish you strength as you continue your journey.

GB2

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-03-2005
Fri, 03-04-2005 - 10:07am

Beautifully,

I think what would really help you is to just get real with yourself. You mention that your husband is not on the same spiritual plane, that you read your bible, that OM goes to church and reads his bible. I'm not trying to offend you, but so what? You both can do all the bible readin' and church goin' you want, but if you're not practicing it, it really doesn't mean much, does it? In all honesty, your husband sounds like a pretty nice fellow, and this other guy sounds highly dishonest, highly dysfunctional and a DISASTROUS choice for not only you, but any woman. Five kids with four different women, I don't remember how many marriages, cheating again....ICK!!!!! DOUBLE ICK!!!! Yea, maybe he rocks your world. So what. Rocking your world does not necessarily a happy world make. So what if your husband does not have the aspirations you do. You knew that when you married him, didn't you? It didn't stop you from walking down the aisle with him, did it? You said that it bothers you that he would let you be the major breadwinner, and that he would be a great dad. Money and jobs are not the most important thing in the world. You sound young, so you probably haven't learned that yet, but you will. Look, you sound like you love your husband. Focus on that and forget this other guy. He is a loser in love, and if you continue to jeopardize your marriage for this dysfunctional whirlwind, you will find yourself heartbroken in the end. And divorced.
Get smart! Do the right thing before it's too late.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-28-2003
Fri, 03-04-2005 - 10:28am

What are you thinking, if you want HELL ON EARTH get involved with a man like XMM, who are you kidding besides yourself.

XMM will not stop with you, there is nothing special about you what he is doing with you he did with the others and will do AFTER OR DURING YOU.

You keep talking about your husbands short comings, but this AFFAIR is not about him at all it is about you and you alone, you may read the Bible but I think the truth is that your HUSBAND is miles and miles ahead of you in spiritual terms HE know more about what is important in life then you do and is not driven to chase after EGO gratification\something or person to make him feel better about himself like you and XMM do.

Forget that "FRIENDSHIP" stuff it does not work, TOTAL NO CONTACT is your best option if you want to get your life out of the toilet bowl and keep it out before someone like your husband or XMM pushs the flush handle for you.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-10-2004
Fri, 03-04-2005 - 2:02pm

Dear BH:

Although I am older than you, I can relate so much to what you are saying. I am a lawyer and my xH has a H.S. diploma and is an electrician. We were together since I was 16. We had 4 children together and he is a great father. He also was not a Christian and it was a big problem in our M. The other problem is that his whole world was me and the kids, I made more money, I decided everything, he had no interests, no hobbies, never read a book (I read all the time), no friends, no relationship with God. He is a wonderful man and good person but a little paranoid, disliking of people and negative.

You are seeing all of these problems early on which I refused to see or look at. I hid all this from myself for so many years and wrapped myself up in my children, my career, my faith everything not to deal with the incompatability between me and xH.

I left my M for my A partner, who then decided to stay in his M. I was devastated but went through with my D. It hurt alot of people, my xH and children especially. It takes a long time for everyone to heal. But I AM GLAD that I am not with him anymore. I feel like at 42 it was my LAST CHANCE to get out while I still look young etc. However, I am still dealing with my relationship with Christ and forgiving myself.

I am so glad that I stopped the A. XMM would have continued it, but I stopped. It about killed me because I loved him so much. But I know that I am doing what Christ wants. No matter how much I wanted him, it was never what God wanted for me.

Now, after grieving the end of the A and the end of my M for 17 months, I am in a committed R with a Wonderful man who gives me so much more than xMM ever gave me. I could never have believed that I would fall in love again and that someone so wonderful would come into my life. Don't ever underestimate God. What he wants for you and gives you is greater than what you would give yourself.

Stop the A and you will feel so much better about your R with God. I think that if you are honest enough to have this issues with your H now that you should get a D and not have children with him. You will be able to find someone in the future who will be more wholly compatible with you and that you can have children with and a wonderful life with. I don't want to encourage a D, but my sit. is so much like yours and it took me years to face the lonliness I felt and it hurt everyone alot worse than it would have years ago. You must be brave.

Good luck to you--but you must get right with God. There is no way to make the A right with God it can't be done.

Survive

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2003
Fri, 03-04-2005 - 3:25pm

Hello there! I was very interested in your post, and I think your problems lie more within your marriage and yourself than in ending this A - JMHO. Congrats on getting to your 3d year of law school - I've been practicing for about 15 years. I can tell you with being an incredible over-achiever, which you must be just to get accepted into law school, I think it's going to be difficult to live the kind of "simple life" you described. This may particularly become a problem when you've graduated and are starting to socialize within your law firm and with your colleagues, etc. You might also find that you have precious little in common with your H, just given the disparity in your educations. He sounds like a classic under-achiever and this would just frustrate the heck out of me. My H and I are both over-achievers, and believe it or not, this is the very thing that made me come to my senses, end the A, and rebuild our marriage. My XMM sounds a bit like your H and I couldn't deal with that anymore.

One not-so-nice observation about your OM - if he's reading the bible and going to church regularly, how did he manage to create such romantic wreckage in his past????? I certainly don't want to discuss anyone's religious views or interpretation of the bible here, but I'm pretty sure JC wasn't terribly fond of betrayers and found a special place for them, if you know what I mean. And that's, again, JMHO.

Bottom line, Beautiful, is that you need reconcile what you want/need from marriage. And like the majority of us on this board, you need to figure out exactly what the thrill of the A satisfied in you. I suggest some individual counseling to help you find healthier, less damaging ways to reinvigorate yourself.

I wish you well. I think sometimes the name of this board is a bit misleading - many of us have already ended our As and are still stuck in trying to figure out what caused the A to begin with. Love, Mo.

mo 7-18-10

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2003
Fri, 03-04-2005 - 4:55pm
Wow, Survive, we have alot in common. I'm also an attorney (practicing for about 15 years) and I am struggling to make myself right with God after the A. I just wanted to throw out some identification with you, because I think anything more substantial on this topic is probably outsides the bounds of this board. However, do you recommend any particular reading or literature that addresses this issue? How to get "right" with God after betrayal? According to Dante, God reserved a really special place for betrayers (is that even a word????) and I'd like to make sure there ain't a lawn chair down there in the lowest rungs of h#ll with my name on it...LOL. Love, Mo.

mo 7-18-10

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-03-2005
Fri, 03-04-2005 - 4:56pm

Survive & Mo,

Your responses bring me to tears. I am so disappointed in myself and hurting so bad because of the many poor choices I made. Deep down, although I love my husband dearly, I fear that he and I may not be well suited for each other. The hard part is, he IS a great guy and I know I won't find another like him. I try to put the material things behind me and hold on to what I was raised to believe is most imporatnt in life (love, happiness, peace of mind, faith, etc.) but somehow I keep feeling like I am selling myself short. I have asked myself, my H, our M counselor, and my personal therapist - is it wrong to want more in life? I have been raised to believe that material desires are of the devil and so I feel guilty for wanting wealth and prosperity. But I am a very hard worker and being brought up poor, I learned very early on that didn't want to limit my children's apirations because of limited resources and a lack of exposure to things. I have been extremely blessed in that I was able to escape a childhood of abuse, poverty, and many dead ends but I don't know anyone else from my childhood that was as lucky. I am the "success story" in my family and amongst my pre-law school friends, so I don't have a strong support system that understand the challenges I have faced or continue to face. The OM I was involved with has a dysfunctional past as well and so I felt like I could relate to him but, you are so very right - my issue isn't with him, it's with me. I could go on and on about how unworthy, and afraid, I felt of success; how law school has opened up a world of opportunities I never knew existed; how for the first time I BELIEVE I am very pretty and intelligent and extremely talented; or the rollercoaster ride my faith in God has taken me on but, I won't. For some reason I think you understand. I would elaborate on the OM and his past but that's really not important either, besides the fact that it was his history that drew me close to him (I see him as the male version of me, except he has kids). I too went through a period when I was extremely premiscuos (which I have come to learn is partly because of the sexual abuse I experienced as a child) and I too could have lots of kids, but God has shown me mercy. It isn't his 5 kids that turn me off, it's the baby momma drama I know I would have to face and the fact that his behavior is repetitive. I may still be in a cloud but I haven't lost all senses...if he'll do it to other women, he'll do it to me too. As I said, I know he isn't the one for me but my problem in letting him go is that I see so much of me in him. I haven't spoken with him in 2 days now and I've teetered with the thought of contacting him for closure. But the truth of the matter is, I don't need to speak with him to get closure. I can get closure from Christ. Something in me just isn't ready to let go. I use to tell him that I loved him but I don't, I like how he made me feel, I like how he challenged my thinking, I LOVED the intellectual conversations (what I don't get at home), and I enjoyed his company. He is a very emotional person and so am I and so I could cry and vent with him w/o fear of judgement. But since I've tapped into this website, I think I can get all of the non-judgmental support I need from here. What still bothers me though is that I cry alone. This is the only reason why I want to tell my H because he's always been there to allow me to cry and grieve when I experienced other trauma's in life - including losing my grandmother who raised me. The only problem with telling him is my fear that this would hurt him too bad and my fear that he won't just let this go - he may want a divorce. I can't bear losing the only person who has ALWAYS been there for me and loved me despite of me, but I also can't seem to bear seeing him hurt from not understanding what is going on with me either. Please tell me more about your journey - I want to listen and learn. I appreciate your willingness to share with me, I knew I wasn't alone in having an A('siennajaden' is my friend), but I didn't know that someone else would understand my story and exactly where I'm coming from. Please keep sharing and caring!

Love, Peace, and Blessings,

~Beautifully Human

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-03-2005
Fri, 03-04-2005 - 11:05pm

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Survive, this is my H and I exactly. We hooked up as friends in HS and began dating the end of my Jr year. I was 17 then and I've been w/ him ever since. He lied and told me that he graduated from HS when in fact he did not. And, he told me that he wanted to go to college when in fact he did not. Currently he is in trade school to become an electrician. But he only agreed to attend trade school after we discussed the possibility of divorce b/c of my concern re: our incompatibility. His whole world is me, but I have pushed him to find other interests - so now he plays B-Ball on Mondays and will occasionally go out w/ a co-worker. But I use to make more money, still work 2 part-time jobs while I'm in school, and I will make considerably more than him when I graduate. He NEVER reads, although we get a ton of magazines (I've tried it all to get him to intellectually stimulate himself) and I read all the time, he's a homebody type with very few friends (my friends are his friends for the most part), and when I met him he said he believed in God but he didn't own a bible or go to church so I bought him a bible and invited him to attend church regularly w/ me. He tends to be negative towrd anyone he perceives as well off (earning more than $60k is well-off to him) and doesn't enjoy being at events or places where "law people" or doctors hang out. Even though we currently have no children I know he'd be a great dad b/c he's a family man. However, he has made it very clear that part of his idea of being a good father is staying home with the children while I work and this is just not me.

When I bring up my concerns w/ my H, he gets very angry w/ me and says that I am materialistic, "white acting," and that I have forgotten where I came from. But then when I suggest that maybe we aren't meant to be together, he says crazy stuff like, "I'll be whatever you want me to be because I only want to be with you, even if you want me to be a dog." Just recently he's mentioned wanting to take a break from school but says he must stay b/c I'll leave him if he doesn't finish. It's like everything he does is for me - his life revolves around me, and this was flattering at first, now I think it's sick! I think my H has some serious self-esteem issues.

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These issues have been a problem in my M since the beginning. I, like many women, thought I could change my H. It's taken the first 5 years of M for me to finally realize I cannot change anyone but me, and even that's hard to do. :-) I can easily see myself getting wrapped up in my career, faith, and my kids (if we were to have children) to avoid dealing with ths issue that eats away at my soul - the fact that he and I want different things in and out of life.

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I was ready to leave my M for my AP too and although I think he might have left his girlfriend, there is always the possibility that he may have stayed. I was plotting it all out. My plan was to separate from my H and move out, see how things worked with the OM (see if he was really going to leave his girl), determine if I wanted to stay M or not and if I did - return to my H, if not - use the A to get through the D and then move on. I know it sopunds crazy but that was my plan. Yes, I see how selfish it was. My plan was basically to use my H and teh OM to buy me time to figure out what was best for me, I could've cared less about what was best for either of them.

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Now this is what terrifies me. I do not want to look back 10 years from now and regret staying married. I have brought this issue up in our M counseling but I feel like our counselor skirts the issue - she wants to see us stay together. I know that God will forgive me but I don't think I could ever forgive myself for dragging my H through a bunch of mess.

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Same with my OM, he lays low for a while and pops up there and again. I know that my A was not of the Lord and if the Lord wanted us to be together it wouldn't have started like it did. I am a firm believer of "how it starts is how it ends."

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I fear that this will never happen to me. I want to set myself free but I am so scared of being alone. Even though I've worked since 16 and can take care of myself, outside of living in France for 4 weeks by myself, I have never lived alone. I had to really step out on faith and quit my day job of 5 years (where I was promoted 2x, and ending up being the youngest person ever on the exec. team) to attend law school full time. So, I know anything is possible through Christ but I am still scared.

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I always maintained a R w/ Christ - even during the "best/worst" of times. I think that's why I felt so much conviction early on.

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So much easier said than done. But it is what I feel deep down. Right now it seems best to give my H and my M an honest effort an dthen if it doesn't work, move on.

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Courage is having the strength to try what others won't attempt because they believe it's too dangerous. Right now I'm still seeing the danger in hurting others but I really want to get to a place where that danger is outweighed by the danger in hurting myself - which will ultimately hurt others as well. I don't know what it is about me but I don't like defeat and to D without giving my M a wholehearted good faith effort seems like throwing in the towel. I almost have to be stepped on to step back. I don't know what that's about but I see it in other relationship I have as well. Treat me ha;fway good and I'm here forever, treat me bad privately and I'll try to make it good, dog me out or step on me in public and I'm gone without looking back. I guess this is another point I'll have to discuss with my therapist.

Again, thanks for sharing. It's because of this website and stories like yours and Mo's that make me believe I can kick this bad habit even while I'm still in love w/ it.

~Beautifully Human

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2003
Sat, 03-05-2005 - 11:37am

BH, you posted so much that I hardly know where to begin. One important distinction must be made, however. You keep focusing on your emerging law career as "materialistic." I think that's an oversimplification, although it may be easier to admit that the great disparity in your education levels.

With my XMM, it wasn't so much that he couldn't afford the things that my DH could. I would have been content enough to be the main money-maker in the relationship. The REAL problem was in communication. I KNEW I was "dummying up" when I was with him. We stayed away from current events and talked more about sports (which I also love). I didn't express many very strong opinions, although I do tend to have some on certain issues. I didn't want to make him feel inferior because he wasn't as educated as me. In reality, I was paring down the person that I am and de-emphasizing the very thing that my marriage is based on.

Material things tend to come, in many cases, to those who happen to be more educated, more intelligent, more ambitious. It happens to be one of the "rewards." I did not become an attorney because I wanted "material" things. I came from a background which is probably similar to yours - middle, working class America. I chose to become an attorney for many reasons, but one was definitely to help people. I also found debate intellectually stimulating and could never see myself satisfied in a 9 to 5 job where I faced the same tasks day after day.

Your choice to become an attorney may just be your first step toward realizing the person you really are. This realization is not likely to leave you. And as far as your H claiming that he will be whoever you want him to be, that's just not possible and I'm sure you know that. We were all given different gifts. Your H's gifts may be that he's a wonderful man and would make a great father. But are those gifts necessarily compatible with what you want out of life??? You've been blessed with an inquisitive sharp mind. Are you making the most of your gifts in this marriage?

There's so much to consider. I frankly feel that I must apologize for sort of bashing your OM. You've alluded to a past that you can relate with, and that surely humbled me. I've got a "past" myself, and those falls were the very things that enabled me to find a "God of my understanding," and deepen my faith and spirituality. God loves us despite our mistakes and errors in judgment and once we accept that, His spirit will keep us from ever royally "screwing up" again.

My humble opinion stays pretty much with my original post, however. Your dilemma is so much less about ending this A (although that's probably a good idea too!) and so much more about what's right in your life. You don't eventually have to spend the rest of your life with either of these guys, like Survive's post is proof of. If you really believe in a loving and caring God who is watching out for you, He will send the right person your way. Have faith in that. He wants you to be happy.

I was also sexually abused as a child and went thru a period of promiscuity, which I really hate to thing about so I'll leave it at that. Don't bash yourself, it's an unfortunate outcome from having been abused as a child. I'm a recovering alcoholic/addict (with 2+ years clean and sober!!!) and this single experience has changed my life more than anything else.

I noticed earlier in this thread that someone suggested you should ignore the difference in education levels and just be thankful that your H is a good and decent man and would make an excellent father. I've got to disagree strongly with that. And now my Saturday morning client as just walked in the building (see what you have to look forward to?) so I'll wrap up. Best of luck and keep posting. We're here to help! Warmest thoughts, Mo.

mo 7-18-10

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Sat, 03-05-2005 - 4:19pm

As I read your post, I felt that you had chosen a husband to whom you feel you are superior. You goaded him into finishing high school. You goaded him into going to marriage counseling.


So why don't you say it out loud to yourself? "I married beneath me". "I want more from my life and my partner than my husband is willing to give to me as a condition of continued marriage." "I made a mistake." "I don't want a laid back house-husband." "I am still a good person who made a mistake. So is my STBX husband. We are an example of irreconciable differences and we're done."


Your MM was a response to the symptoms of the disappointments you've felt for a long time from your marriage. You've learned that. It doesn't change the fact that you and your husband have significant fundamental life value differences that aren't changing or compromising anytime soon.


It's quite possible there are no feelings for your husband for you to recover. You're coming form two very different ends of the life values spectrum. As in you may have to agree to disagree and divorce with as much civility as you two can muster towards one another in order that both of you can seek out new partners that fit what you're looking for from life. Husband wants laid back, take care of me wife type marriage. You want more zip and intitiative from a husband. Sos says your post. So say it out loud to your husband. And leave as friends who made a

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