do not understand/plain torn...

Visitor (not verified)
anonymous user
Registered: 12-31-1969
do not understand/plain torn...
24
Sat, 10-30-2004 - 12:24pm


My seven-month affair with MM officially ended March 2004. I am still married to my current spouse. What is disturbing me is prior to the affair, my husband and I were not getting along for three years, discussed divorce options.

After the affair ended, it appears my husband wants desperately to save, preserve the marriage. I am up for this...but he is not aware of the affair. Because of this lack of knowledge, I find it impossible for me to even work it out with my husband; I cannot be close to him without telling him. At the same time, I have NO INTENTION of ever telling him. For months I have been aloof, withdrawing from my husband...when he is trying to figure out what's wrong with me, etc.. I love my husband but I cannot and will not tell him the truth which is driving me further away. Also, I resent my husband for "ignoring" me emotionally/physically for years...now he wants to play all lovey-dovey? Deep down, I feel a divorce would help me in ridding of my guilt, etc.. Now, I am at a crossroads.

Visitor (not verified)
anonymous user
Sun, 10-31-2004 - 1:01pm


I have to agree entirely with Sillyme12000. The guilt got to me such extent I confided in my mother. My mother is as conservative, rigid as anyone can get...first thing she said,

"Do not tell your H; you would be digging yourself a grave and your H will be shoving dirt on you. If I did anything like that, I can tell your father...he would deal with it within a rational, reasonable manner (be beyond pissed, of course!)...but not your H, he is a strange man..." Even though my H is a great man, kind and generous, you have to understand he has a bizarre fixation on women cheating on their men...his worst nightmare. His relationship with his mother is destructive...he literally DESPISES her which might very well explain his underlying distrust of women. My H has been denying problems for years; for example, his mother is beyond certifiable and yet to this day, he has trouble admitting she is emotionally disturbed (which affected him while he was growing up).

Once I was convinced he was caught up in an EMA with a lady who lived in our area, which clearly caused a further rift in our relationship (all occurred a year before my affair with OM). To this day, he still cannot (yes, he is clueless) understand why his relationship with that woman was disturbing me...Do not get me wrong, I do/did not have a problem with him having female friends but COME ON, he was running to her ALL THE TIME (new best friend?) whenever we had our spats (so minor if anything...he cannot handle confrontations...again it stems from his "irrational" mother).

Yes, I believe my H is a hypocrite, has great trouble seeing how his behavior can affect others...I agree with Sillyme..the affair (again, a disastrous mistake!) was merely a symptom of a much larger problem. My H is a type of person who cannot understand why one would cancel a business luncheon with him AFTER my H has been flaking on him/her.....duh!

Visitor (not verified)
anonymous user
Sun, 10-31-2004 - 3:06pm
Hiya Sillyme,

<<>>

It was inevitable someone would pick up on the mere existence of my daughter and attempt to run with it, hehe. I actually wondered how long it would be before someone did! ;)

The fact is that I actually told my husband over a year and a half before my daughter was born and before I'd had any physically intimate contact with exOM whatsoever. At the emotional affair stage, I told DH that I had developed strong feelings for someone else. We agreed to an indefinite separation at that stage so I moved out when the purchase of my new house was complete a couple of months later. DH actually held my hand as I gave birth, but that's very much another story lol.

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DH wasn't the kind of man he is until he entered individual counselling.

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Hehe, I guess Jack Nicholson can keep those men that can't handle the truth then because I don't need or want them in my life. Saddest thing is, my father (retired USMC and serial adulterer) said exactly the same thing. It's classic CYA attempting to wrap itself in noble sacrifice.

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Quite correct, it isn't anything remotely resembling honest to lie even by omission.

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Sure, when being honest means someone may choose not to be with you (general), it's understandable you (general) might choose not to be honest.

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"Better" is a subjective term. Perhaps being honest merely makes everything "right" (also a subjective term). By disclosing the truth, you give away the power of information, any control you perceive you have is taken from you. Once you tell, you cannot take it back again. If you don't trust that decision will go your way, I understand all too well how one might be tempted to keep it a secret. It's a personal choice, Sillyme. Having had a childhood in which lies and an undercurrent of deception were rife, I made the personal choice to refrain from perpetuating that atmosphere in my own relationships. If being honest with DH meant I was to be cast aside or rejected by DH forever & ever amen, then at least all parties had been free to make an informed decision. I flat out refuse to trick someone into being in a relationship with me. That is *my* choice and by my choices I am absolutely certain that DH chooses to be with me given ALL the circumstances. I'm also acutely aware that I'm financially comfortable enough to be able to easily survive an either way decision and not all women/people are as fortunate.

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Have you considered MC and/or IC? Or does withholding information colour your choices to enter into counselling?

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And we continue to differ since, in my opinion, it is neither worthwhile nor fulfilling remaining in a relationship where I cannot be honest or truthful. If I do not wish to be lied to, I cannot justify lying to others, be it in my marriage, my friendships, or my professional relationships. If I have to lie by omission or even trick someone into being/staying with me, well, how much am *I* actually loved? What lessons am I passing on to my child by accepting a relationship where lies & deception are the predominant undercurrent? Having lived it, I know full well the poor love map template that is passed on and I refuse point blank to doom my own daughter to living that life.

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This is how I grew up, Sillyme, my father told me this OFTEN. It suited his wishes to cover his arse whilst he continued to do just as he pleased. As long as my mother remained unaware, well, who was it hurting? After all, the end result was the family remained in tact, right? Well, it hurt me, it hurt my brother and both of us have have had to find our own paths towards a far less self-serving lives and to discover just how important honesty really is - even when it might hurt someone else. How does a child learn about accountability or stepping up to the plate if this is never demonstrated to them because it's easier to avoid being accountable? We didn't and have had to learn this for ourselves. There's the harm in it, right there.

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I'm not a particularly religious person, however, isn't there something along the lines of `to thine own self be true?' If you are true to yourself, how can it be right or how could it follow that we should be false to others? "Because it suits us not to tell" doesn't seem to be all that solid or great an answer, does it? I'm not sure how Him Upstairs would view it.

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If we ARE adults, shouldn't we at least be given the opportunity to handle truths in a healthy, adult manner rather than having someone decide for us what we can or cannot handle?

<<>>

It's been a long old road, but I'm glad we're travelling it together again. I hope you get there, too, Sillyme.

Wishing you strength & peace,

Posie

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-02-2000
Mon, 11-01-2004 - 11:23am
Posie,

I do appreciate your input. However, I must tell you that you seem to be making your own conclusions about what my and/or Beenthere's feelings and motivations are regarding our situations based on what yours was. Of course I understand that to not tell is not being honest. But that doesn't mean that if someone chooses NOT to reveal this to their spouse, they are trying to "trick" them or control them. Again, your H may be the type of man that could obviously handle it, therapy or not. Some people just cannot, no matter how much therapy they would receive. Since you're not with someone like that, you must not be able to truly understand someone like that. They truly just cannot get over it. Why hurt someone like that with this information? And it's not so that you can just continue on having A's and the like. In a perfect world, it would be great to be able to reveal all to someone, be completely honest, and be able to come to some understanding. But this isn't a perfect world, and sometimes discretion IS the better part of valour.

There are also people in this world that possess violent tendencies. Would you endorse telling someone like that about an A and risk causing someone else, like yourself for instance, actual physical harm? My point is that though I applaud you and your H's ability to be completely frank with one another and be able to work through it, you cannot assume that this is what would be best for everyone else. Some people are better left NOT knowing.

Silly

Visitor (not verified)
anonymous user
Mon, 11-01-2004 - 12:57pm
Hiya Sillyme,

<<>>

If you (general) feel your partner would choose something other than being with you if you revealed all, how is this not controlling the situation or a trick designed to ensure the preservation of the relationship? Please explain this to me, I really am genuinely interested.

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Why would anyone assume I have no experience with a partner who would not have been able to deal with that kind of news? I was married to and divorced an alcoholic long before my path crossed DH's. I understand implicitly some people may not deal very well with devestating news. I further understand that without the benefit of therapy, DH was not the sort of person who was able to deal with devestating news. The end result of my disclosure that I'd developed strong feelings for someone else was that we separated.

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Because I refuse to live a life with lies & deception. Because it denies that someone the opportunity to make an informed choice about whether they wish to remain in a relationship with me. Because I have a deep need to be loved for who I am, warts & all, rather than for whoever it is I permit my partner to believe I am.

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It may not be in order to continue having A's, however, in some cases, certainly my father's, it was. Even if it isn't, that was what eventually happened since whatever core issues he had for having an A was never addressed or dealt with. How on earth are the core issues for choosing to have an A or A's ever going to be addressed if they are simply covered over like so many cat turds in a litter tray? Ignoring the core issues doesn't make them go away, Sillyme. Whether these issues are with the marriage/relationship, with the partner, or far more likely within *ourselves*, if these core issues are not addressed, well, what prevents an A from "just happening" again? If not now, then why not later?

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I guess I live in a "perfect world..." Discretion is the better part of valour because it's arse coverage and preserves something you (general) don't want put assunder. The truth may hurt, but it's also real rather than a lie or lie by omission. I have a relationship today because I did not lie & deceive. It's a matter of personal choice, it isn't a choice I can condone for my life because I refuse to settle for the life my parents had full of lies & deceptions and which vandalised my life & love maps to the point where I believed love was love because it was emotionally distant and FULL of lies & deception... I am the result of that kind of upbringing and I will not pass that on to my daughter, Sillyme. If my daughter understands that adults step up to the plate even when it might cost them dearly and if my daughter is secure enough in herself to speak the truth *especially* when it may be painful to others, then I'll consider my parenting job a success. If she settles for lies & deception & withholding information as a means to escape responsibility for & the consequences of her own actions, I'll consider myself a complete parenting failure. Point is, our children do as we *do*, not as we *say*. Our relationships are the templates for what feels right to them when it comes time for them to have their own adult relationships.

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In that particular hypothetical instance I'd be questioning why a violent/potentially violent or abusive/potentially abusive relationship is actually deemed worth preserving...

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I assume nothing, Sillyme, as deep as my loathing is for lies or deception, it is very much a personal choice to be honest and accept the full consequences for one's own actions especially when it may cost them dearly.

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You won't be surprised to discover I heartily disagree. ;) I'd actually reword this to read:- "Some people are better off if someone else is left not knowing." At least my proposed amendment reflects the self-serving nature of non-disclosure.

Wishing you strength & peace,

Posie

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-02-2000
Mon, 11-01-2004 - 1:46pm
Posie,

Ok...I do respect your opinions, and I think you have a lot of good and insightful things to share with people, but I have to tell you, you're starting to p*ss me off some. I think you're really making a lot of judgement calls and assumptions and projecting your own values onto others' situations, and you're coming across a little holier-than-thou. Yes, yes, yes, and finally, YES, I agree with you. It is good to be as honest as you can in life. But there is nothing you can say to convince me that it is ALWAYS best to be 100% honest with everyone about everything, damn the torpedoes. And it isn't always simply about covering one's arse. Whether you believe it or not, or think it's important or not, it might also be about not causing the other person any undue pain.

And let's face it, if we were all the most honest people in the world, we wouldn't have been having an affair in the first place, would we have?

Silly

Visitor (not verified)
anonymous user
Mon, 11-01-2004 - 2:40pm


Interesting to read many different viewpoints...

In all, I can understand where Posie is coming from but at the end of the day, I do NOT believe in revealing this information to my husband not because I wish to PRESERVE my bum but merely based upon his personality, profile. Even though my husband is a sweet,

Mr. Nice Guy who would help an old lady with groceries, lend you his last $5...but at the end of the day, he has violent tendencies (he has never hit me) that cannot be controlled or rationalized. And no...he is not an alcoholic. Overall his flaring tempers (which occur not very often but when it does, better hide your sorry ass FAST) have, on subconscious level, pushed me away. My husband is always regretful after getting into rages...

My husband has trouble expressing his feelings, opting to internalize 'em all, including the negatives. Precisely why when something "pisses" him off, EVERYTHING EXPLODES (past anger, petty, past peeves didn't mention, etc..). I have made a commitment to keep this information to myself because my sole motivation is to protect everyone involved including xOM. As mentioned in my previous post, if I were to leave the marriage (which I plan on doing) I have absolutely no desire, plan to ever reveal this information to my husband EVER...going to the grave with me.

Quite frankly, the failure of our marriage has nothing to do with the OM; prior to meeting OM, the marriage was barely limping. Yes, I am partially responsible if this marriage finally dissolves (after I gave up on him- decided to look the other way)...My husband has trouble expressing his feelings/emotions...which typically result in him "attacking" me through

passive-aggressive behavior. I developed resentment, anger...thought I could never win with him. Posie, how can you reason with a man who has gained over 40 pounds in the marriage (during the course of three years), simply refused to let me in, share his problems...ate away to fill his void? I tried counseling with him (thought he was depressed), fixed him low-fat diets, tried to force him to take walks with me...to no avail! His excuse for gaining weight: you (I) did not seem to care about me...

ALL BULL----. I lost all attraction to him (not because of the weight but the

poor self-esteem, refusing to do anything about it), explains why we did not sleep together for over a year 1/2 prior to my affair. His issues are so deep-seated, were there prior to the marriage. Again Posie, how, what would it gain if somewhere within his loopy head he was OBSESSIVELY imagining me "getting it on" with a man half his size?

Initially I posted not to ask whether I should tell him or not? I have already made up my mind to NOT TELL.....I posted because I was venting my frustration, anger...all of a sudden my husband is Mr. Sweet...buying me flowers, looking into traveling (he knows this is my passion...making arangements for us to go to southern Italy), taking walks around the track, watching his diet...to be honest, I want to wring his neck. All the years of shutting me out...

Posie, I believe your underlying motivation in telling your husband of the affair is to break the chain/cycle of lies and deceits initially created by your father. To you, you were/are rejecting the tradition of betrayal initiated, perpetrated by the patriarch.....which I find admirable that you are determined to destroy (the mockery of the institution of marriage) the "attitude."

As for me and others who opt to "not tell"...might very well be we are not doing it to protect our bums. However, if we consistently leap into affairs (serial philanderers) then the spouses have every right to know...to decide whether to exterminate us or not...As for myself, I will never have another affair while I am married (whether to my present spouse or another man)...that experience itself was SHEER HELL.

Visitor (not verified)
anonymous user
Mon, 11-01-2004 - 2:57pm
Hiya Sillyme,

>>><<>><<< ~Posie~

I would still genuinely like to know.

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How is asking questions and even outlining my own personal choices being judgemental? If you choose to see that as judgement, there's really very little I can do about it. Anyway, regardless, I'll still tell you the truth... ;)

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I have no need to convince anyone of anything. I've asked questions, I've answered questions and I've outlined my own personal choices as a result of having lived in a home in which there was an underlying current of lies & deception.

It remains very much a PERSONAL choice whether or not to embark upon an affair. It's also very much a PERSONAL choice whether or not to disclose the affair to one's partner. I won't lie to someone to make them feel better about their choices since I see that as neither constructive nor supportive.

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Any way you slice it, dice it, or julienne it, arse coverage *is* the end result. It ensures there is no need to step up to the plate and accept the consequences for our actions.

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Sure, I accept it might well *also* be about not causing pain to others, Sillyme, but it's *also* invariably about dodging the responsibility & possible consequences for actions/choices which would cause that pain.

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And this, Sillyme, is precisely why I personally refuse to be that person anymore.

Wishing you strength & peace,

Posie

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-02-2000
Mon, 11-01-2004 - 3:25pm
Beenthere,

Thank you. This is what I am trying to say. Not telling isn't always about protecting your own arse. It can also be about protecting the OM, the OMW, and the H, too. Sometimes the kinder thing is to spare the others pain. And if it helps to preserve the M, then all the better, if preserving the marriage is a goal. Ever seen "The Bridges of Madison County"? Enough said.

Silly

Visitor (not verified)
anonymous user
Mon, 11-01-2004 - 3:29pm
Hiya Beenthere,

<<>>

As I mentioned in my earlier post to Sillyme, I would question why you deem such a relationship worth preserving.

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You can't. Neither can you do it for him nor can you "make" him deal with whatever demons he has that need to be dealt with by him. We simply cannot control anyone else but ourselves, nope, not even our children whom we are only privileged enough to guide along their own paths. Seeking to do so only ever ends in frustration and failure.

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Mine, too. Only with intensive cognitive therapy have I been able to put my OWN cakcapookie together into one managable pile.

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This is a hypothetical question, so my hypothetical answer would be perhaps he might be motivated to finally seek the help he needs to deal with his own core issues. Wherever there is the possible threat of violence, I'd suggest distancing oneself from the source of that potential violence.

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Absolutely. I've stated as much here and on several other boards.

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However, the fact remains that your bums are protected as a direct result and the underlying core issues remain utterly unaddressed.

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Am I right in understanding that if we have affairs willy-nilly we have to come clean, but if we do it just the once it's not necessary?

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My father told me much the same when I was 11 when I stumbled across the first of his dozen or so OW over the years. I guess it wasn't hellish enough for him. Or perhaps it's just that the core issues which initially led to his choice to have affairs never needed to be dealt with since he never had to deal with the consequences of his actions. I certainly learned the deny-deny-deny motto early enough. I certainly learned that responsibility was for other people not smart enough to deflect it from their own shoulders. I learned that truth was something you told when it suited you and held when it didn't.

I've since learned that this is not how I wish to live my own life. But that is only my own personal choice.

Wishing you strength & peace,

Posie




iVillage Member
Registered: 08-02-2000
Mon, 11-01-2004 - 3:29pm
Posie,

>>><<>><<< ~Posie~

Sorry, I missed answering that question. Of course, if that is the reason a person is choosing not to tell, of course it would be controlling the situation. But my point is that this is not always the reason. It might be in there somewhere, but not necessarily the primary reason.

Silly