Is he crazy or manipulative?
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| Tue, 06-21-2005 - 12:31pm |
The board is slow today!
So I am having NC with exMM. Thats not the question. There is no danger of me weakening. I am just curious if anyone here has experienced this when ending an affair. (Technically MM is separated but since its a secret, I feel it was an affair on his end really.) I've made myself clear that until he gets divorced and cleans up his life, there is no contact and its 100% over. He always agrees but then I get all these emails about how unfair I am being and so on. They are full of twisted logic like I didn't let my guard down ever and show him the real me with full intimacy so how could he really commit to me so I owe it to him to show him who I really am and he will commit to me (this is today's). Of course I dont respond to these. I am just wondering if anyone has experiences this, where the married person seems to "forget" the real issue and keep trying to get the relationship back while not correcting the real issue (ie - getting unmarried) and somehow acts as if his being married was just an side issue.
The reason I read them is to stay aware of his mental state just in case I need to take action.
Ivy

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Ivy, my dear.....,
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Honey, YOU as well as this entire BOARD, knows the mental state of your MM. He's WACKO! With that said, can't you see that you are sabotaging the entire NC process by reading those emails? They are FULL of what he is...CACA!!! They are manipulation at their best, and destruction at their worst. You have got to stop doing this to yourself, or you will continue to flip-flop like a fish out of water until you have nothing left to fight with. See how his words are twisting your thoughts and continually causing you to analyze the situation?
It's like a voice from out of the grave. YOU can't bury this nightmare until you ACCEPT that it needs to be DEAD. You are still struggling with denial...
Sweetie, let him twist in his own foul oder. You are not going to be able to move past this until you do. Time and distance brings clarity and perspective. You haven't even given yourself ONE DAY to ignore his existence. NOTHING is going to change, reshape, or mend the situation until YOU start doing for YOURSELF without his interference.
Now take the rest of the day (at least 24 hours) to think about this without ANY but, but, but...crossing your mind, OK?
Well, my reasoning is that he has threatened to show up at my job and cause trouble for me (he used to work here). In the past, when I was married and he was separated he drove around and around my car while my H and I were in it. That is what led to me telling my H about the affair. I've come outside my apt and he's been there, waiting and I am not worried about my safety but I am worried because I am dating and I don't want any problems. Of course, I see your point. Reading the emails is not going to prevent him from doing anything. Its just that - I am seeing my ex again and we are trying to talk and get to know each other again and I fear that if he sees exMM hanging around, he will never believe me that its over. So that's my real fear. My lease is up Aug 31 and I am considering moving but that seems so drastic. Plus by then maybe he will have just gone away. For now, I am careful not to have any men around my building. I am considered a restaining order but I think I need more proof. He hasnt' done anything yet.
Ivy
Sometimes I think that women have affairs for all sorts of reasons - they are sex starved, lonely, fall in love, have intimacy issues and can't have a total relationship with one person but split themselves in two halves, bored with marriage, fear getting old and never experiencing love again....men have affairs becasue underneath it all - they are freaking insane. And us women with all these characteristics get involved with these demented men who we never would under normal circumstances. Our defenses are down and we are not thinking clearly and miss all the signs of insanity.
If you read my post I just wrote, I said how MM was circling my car with my H and I in it. That was July 2003. Yet, I still left my H and waited for a man who showed me back in the beginning that he was clearly mentally unstable. Did I find this craziness attractive? I think I was so lonely I thought I saw crazy in love when I should have recognized plain crazy.
Ivy
It gets easier to have clarity but yeah, of course I still have feelings for him and feel weak. I guess I've just been doing this longer than you. I'm now in self preservation mode, I guess, where I may have emotions and longing for MM but I just can't allow myself to act on them or influence my life decisions any longer. I'm not really that noble or great a person. Its purely selfish at this point. I've been alone 2 solid yrs now waiting for MM to finalize his divorce and be with me in this real relationship he keeps talking about. I just can't afford the time anymore. I'm almost 33 now and I am alone. I want my own chance to have a family too. MM has his already. So maybe you just need to get to your own breaking point. Sometimes you just need to hit rock bottom to realize what you are doing with your life. Hoepfully, you don't need to destroy your marriage like I did and sit alone for two years. You are starting with the counseling and thats good. Try to keep up the NC. I know its hard - really you know all we are saying already.
Ivy
Ivy,
As i was reading your post recounting the stalkery things your MM did...I was thinking..."Omg....and she still wanted him so badly? she thinks this is healthy behavior??" and i am SOOOOOOOOOOOOO RELIEVED that you re-read your own post.
You need (and hopefully have) recognize how dramatic and possibly unstable ....this person is. You spent way too long involved in it and need to understand in yourself....why. Not healthy behavior on your part (hope that doesn't sound harsh) but just like ID and Ive said...you need to be out of this to see how effed up this was. Believe me for about a month...when my xMM made a critical comment...it made me wonder but I didn't ask him right then and there.."um why are you saying that to me?" because it was so subtle and at a very intimate moment and it was so strange that I thought ..hmm i need to think before i react because maybe he didn't mean that..he couldnt have meant THAT. But later i find out ..he did because its a tactic he was using. Very psychological stuff now that i am able to look at it in hindsight and with some knowledge Ive been able to glean from the internet...because ya see...ive not been in contact with someone like that before and of course..i was in love with him so i didn't want to rock the boat or whatever at that time. But zowie it is all a clear path to what I think is now his mental problem of being a sociopath. Many are because they are very adept at getting under your skin, very passionate, very intense, very charming, very alot of things...and they learn they are very good at it...to make sure they keep getting what serves their lazy, coward lives...its how they function and how they keep everything going in their life...by others...doing it for them. KWIM?
"Its your fault, your choice, It wasn't me, you have a problem not me, oh well this is how I am, hey babe its me all me woohoo, bet you missed me, you just love me dont you, oh wow i am so good at blank, my new boss loves me,i am the best employee he has, i got this for free, this person liked me so they give me stuff, i dont pay for anything because they love having me around"...etc (deflection of fault, mooching reputation using his charm, asks for things just because they can, almost to embarrassment for freebies and handouts, feeling of being owed something in the world, glib bragging, aloof when concious is pointed out)...
...any of those phrases catching your attention....manipulation is indeed a form of craziness (sociopathy) ...both are very dangerous in my opinion..if not now...in the long run. Abuse doesnt start on the first date. Using someone doesnt start on the first date. Some agenda's are constant or sometimes they take a few years.
For those of you just thinking about leaving...this is another reason many say...no contact or at least a total break even if temporary ..is important. CLARITY IS WHAT COMES...if its a good thing...it will show..if not...and you get surrounded by level headed thinking...you may be shocked at what you've allowed yourself and someone else...to do...Ivy I am sure you are in a lil shock over yourself. You will have an added step of forgiving yourself or repairing the ignorance of what you were really involved with. I wouldn't go jumping in with the x too quickly either. You need to spend time evaluating yourself...I am glad I did for myself. This has been a huge eyeopener into who I am, why i was attracted to that type (and still may be...ya know that confidence thing...well remember...confidence also is the "con" thing..that is where it comes from).
I also now know why I was chosen by him :( . He , being experienced, knew I was a vunerable woman. This is not the first time he's done this i bet. I always did think I was out of his league in some ways. Now I know why he picked me. They can control things if they sense a desparation or someone who they THINK will not go anyhwere or put up with alot. I was smart and a lil delusional than he thought and felt i deserved a good lookin guy..he probably counted on me thinking he was doing me a favor. When he realized he couldnt manipulate me past a certain point...he found someone else...nearly completely opposite of me How can that happen within the span of 2 weeks..and so opposite..hmm..well ..she had a house he could move into, a truck he could drive, cant get her pregnant, and she already has kids that he wanted so badly, in the city he was temporarily working so he wouldnt commute...meanwhile just 10 days prior i was the closest person in the entire planet to him mentally...funny ...what it took for him to leave his wife........an easy way to from someone who said yes yes yes to all his ideas.
are you getting what I am saying?
your MM may be a sociopath too without a backup but i bet...not for long,
Ever think that apt he has just may be with another woman????
Lizzie
Edited 6/21/2005 3:44 pm ET ET by lizzie1965
You mean he is living off of some other poor woman in the state next to mine? I guess anything is possible. I know he doesn't have a full fledged living together relationship with someone. I am not sure where he would meet someone but I guess you never know. Something is definitely up over all this time. I actuall hope there is not some woman out there crying over him, financially supporting him.
I just did somme reading online about RO. You can get one just for harrassment. Emails, phone calls, stalking. Good to know. Too soon to tell now but he is majorly pissing me off. Sent a couple of demented emails and then called a few times. The funny thing is that he's not sad and begging me to see him. He's actually indignant and angry saying that I have alot of nerve that he just wants to talk to me. Its not haha funny. Actually it has a good effect - I am pissed off and any lingering feelings for him are being quickly snuffed out. What an ass! The website said to keep these VMs and emails as proof of harrassment.
Ivy
the girls here will support me when i say:
Yes, my mm taught the *class* on this. LOL.
don't buy their abusive logic.
jen
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