I need to be here...help me stay
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I need to be here...help me stay
| Tue, 02-24-2004 - 9:31am |
I am so angry at myself. I was here before and then left. If I would have stayed, I'm sure I would be over this jerk by now. I need you guys. I'll try to keep this brief and hopefully this will be the last time I have to tell this dreaded story. I've been married for 20+ years. A good marriage, no major problems. A younger single guy started flirting with me last January, asked me to e-mail him. I would see him several times a week where he worked, he would pursue me like crazy, all full of compliments all the time. After 4 months, I asked if we could talk. We met for the first time outside of where he worked, talked for a long while, he was all over me, and we made out but he did not want to have ic. The next week, the flirty e-mails came to a screeching halt, he would barely talk to me. I then became the pursuer. I would arrange for us to meet, but he would always back out. He stopped all the compliments and became kind of jealous/mean towards me. Then one month later he gets fired, so I don't see him anymore, but all the rumors start about all these other women he had flirted with, emailed, etc. I continued e-mailing him and would call him now and then. I ran into him a few times and he seemed so happy to see me. He would always respond, but never initiate anything. Then in November one morning I was iming him and told him my H was out of town, I was bored. He e-mailed me later with his cell and asked me to call him. I did and he came over. Only this time he wasn't all over me, kind of acted like he didn't even want to be close to me. He was so freaked at being at my house, made me turn all the lights off. He was having a panic attack. After many drinks, we made out and did have brief ic. He told me he wanted me to know what it felt like inside me. He wasn't able to maintain an erection and he didn't last long. He got up immediately and started spouting off why this can't happen again, why sex can't be good with me because he is so freaked out about my H, how guys fall all over me and he is not that way. It was horrible. My first ic since my H ever, something I fantasized about, and it was so degrading. He said he would e-mail the next day but didn't. I called him on Christmas Eve and asked if we could talk. We talked for a while on the phone. He told me he gets attached to me every time we have sex and I'm married and it is no good for any of us. He said I want my M and him too and that is not right, he felt I was using him, he said I have too much to lose, he needs to work hard at his new job, he will be travelling, etc. etc. He said he would respond to me, but not pursue me, but promised that we would get together and talk after the holidays. His responses to my e-mails started getting fewer and fewer. I caught him on-line 3 weeks ago and we had a great im session. He said he would like to try again with me when he isn't so freaked out. So that weekend, I catch him on-line again late Saturday night. He wanted me to come over but my H was home and I couldn't. We imed for a while, it was great. He was slow with his responses so I told him I was going to get ready for bed, make some tea. I was gone 15 minutes and when I came back it was so strange. He went on about what I had said to someone after he got fired, which I didn't say, but wouldn't let me explain. He started babbling about why I know about his affiliation with some guy, which he had just told me. I was like "wtf is this all about, this could be so much more fun". He just got off line. The next day I called his cell and he acted like nothing happened, but couldn't talk. I sent a "wtf" e-mail which he did not respond to. I sent another e-mail about an event my H and I would be at, he responded that he would be there and let him know where we were sitting. I replied with our seats but didn't hear from him and didn't see him there. I don't know what to do or where to go with all of this pain and confusion. I need and want this to be over and yet I miss the way it used to be. For months now I think I have been trying to get our R back to where it was in the beginning when it was so much fun, which has made me the pursuer. I want an hour long face to face talk with this guy to clear some things up, but I don't know how to make that happen. I am so confused and angry right now. I don't think I will be able to get over this and move on with all of this anger. Some great things are happening for me right now personally and this is clouding my happiness. I am a beautiful, successful woman with a great H and great kids. I was not looking for this, he pursued me, I got obsessed with the attention, he backs off, then treats me cruelly. Almost like he was punishing me for liking him or something. He seems very jealous of what I have. This guy doesn't have it together at all. Why did I let this happen? Why can't I get over this and move on? I know you guys are the best to help me find my way. I need you. Thanks for reading, C

First of all...wow! Honey, like the majority of us, you became strung out on OM and became an affair addict. Look at the energy you put into pursuing. Look at how awful that first IC was....and yet, you kept going back, again and again. I know you are in pain right now....like the rest of us. But lets step back and look at the situation, shall we: (and maybe you can clarify)
"I've been married for 20+ years. A good marriage, no major problems."
BULL. Something happened there. I'm not saying that your marriage is awful or horrible, because its probably not...BUT, people in a good marriage do not do this. Something has fallen apart. This is not to say that people don't THINK about it...but crossing the line to the other side is entirely different.
"next week, the flirty e-mails came to a screeching halt, he would barely talk to me. I then became the pursuer."
Right there should've been your red flag. IF this guy really wanted an affair, he would have responded in kind.....but I know..hindsight is easier than foresight.
"I would arrange for us to meet, but he would always back out. He stopped all the compliments and became kind of jealous/mean towards me. Then one month later he gets fired, so I don't see him anymore, but all the rumors start about all these other women he had flirted with, emailed,"
I don't mean to sound harsh, but is this guy emotionally/psychologically stable? At this point, I'm wondering....but it could just be a condensed version of what has happened.
"He was so freaked at being at my house, made me turn all the lights off. He was having a panic attack. After many drinks, we made out and did have brief ic." AND "I was gone 15 minutes and when I came back it was so strange. He went on about what I had said to someone after he got fired, which I didn't say, but wouldn't let me explain. He started babbling about why I know about his affiliation with some guy, which he had just told me. I was like "wtf is this all about, this could be so much more fun". He just got off line."
AGAIN, I'm curious about his emotional/mental health.
"He said I want my M and him too and that is not right, he felt I was using him, he said I have too much to lose,"
But, apparently, irregardless of his mental health, he IS intelligent. Think about what he has said.....what do you think about this. I mean, by all accounts, you said your marriage was good...but yet you began to pursue a single younger guy.....
I just wonder if the thrill of the chase became too exciting for you to let go. Lets face it, after 20+ years of marriage, there is not much "thrills and chills" anymore....more like same old, same old. However, it never justifies the affair unless it is consented by the spouse (which I haven't ever seen done without damage). Perhaps you are seeking something outside yourself? Perhaps its just excitement.
I hope this doesn't come across as too harsh...because that's not my intent, only to call attention to things that stood out to me. I know you are in pain, like me, and just want to help you along. Post often...it helps
dharma
"BULL. Something happened there. I'm not saying that your marriage is awful or horrible, because its probably not...BUT, people in a good marriage do not do this. Something has fallen apart. This is not to say that people don't THINK about it...but crossing the line to the other side is entirely different."
This scares me a little. My H loves me so much, almost too much. It is a controlling kind of love, wants me with him all the time, we work together also. I've been asking him for more space and it's hard for him but he has agreed. I also told him I want to look for a different job. He has agreed to that also, but doesn't seem real thrilled with it. I THINK about it all the time. My H was my first and I wanted to experience another man. I got married young and have regretted not having those "dating" years. I should not have crossed that line though. I was faithful for such a long time. I'm angry that I crossed
the line with a guy that didn't reciprocate and it turned out so badly. I can't get that back now.
"I don't mean to sound harsh, but is this guy emotionally/psychologically stable? At this point, I'm wondering....but it could just be a condensed version of what has happened."
No, not harsh at all. It's something that myself and others have often wondered. He borrowed $ from me and others and we always wondered if it was for drugs or gambling. He got fired because he was stealing $. He was very immature, used to say he was ADD, he was up and down. BUT, at the beginning he was not this way. It more came out as I got to know him. Another reason why I am confused why I pursued "this", you know.
"But, apparently, irregardless of his mental health, he IS intelligent. Think about what he has said.....what do you think about this. I mean, by all accounts, you said your marriage was good...but yet you began to pursue a single younger guy....."
You are right, it freaked me out some of the things he said on the phone on Christmas Eve. Almost like he had been doing research on affairs, or had been in one before (said he hadn't). He made many good points and I saw things from his side. It made me feel bad. That is why I wanted to talk to him further, which he promised we would. I posted and got some single womens viewpoints and even understood more. I hadn't realized how it was from the single side. I don't know what to think about this. I am so confused at my behavior. I put so much energy all summer into pursing this guy. I don't know why.
"Perhaps you are seeking something outside yourself? Perhaps its just excitement."
I think you hit the nail on the head. I am bored with life, with myself, with my job, with everything. It may be a mid life crisis. I have some regrets in life. Through all of this my H and I have made changes and it is all beginning to happen now, just last week in fact. But like I said, this is clouding everything. I hate when I can't clear my name or clear things up with someone. I am embarrassed with myself where he is concerned. He told me that none of this has affected my life at all...BS, if he only knew. He told me that I confuse him...BS. He told me that I just want to F*** and when I said, give me a break, I've been with my H and briefly with you, he said, I don't ever play the sorry role. He has been so unconcerned with my feelings.
Thanks again, C
Don't go beating yourself up...its a waste of time and energy....just *try* to use this as a learning experience, one which has taught you well and you can grow from.
This guy really does sound mentally unstable, in some way or form...it could be drugs or it could be other. Again, its not your gig to figure out. But, look as to why you found the whole thing attractive.
BIG RED FLAG: when you said, "My H loves me so much, almost too much. It is a controlling kind of love, wants me with him all the time, we work together also. I've been asking him for more space and it's hard for him but he has agreed."
can you clarify this statement? what do you mean, controlling kind of love? examples? Love is the OPPOSITE of control...the POLAR opposite.
Mid-life crises? yup, join the club. Though I'm only 35 (nearly 36), I've got all the tell tales signs of the midlife crises....one therapist told me that most women don't get there until their late 40' early 50's...but because I married so young and had kids young, I'm hitting it early (I also think its more like a combo identity crises/mid life thing...all that the same time...ugh).
Some of things he says to you sound just so mean and cruel...but maybe its the way he says it that doesn't make it seem so...but when you write it, its glaring.
big hugs
dharma
The thing with my H is complicated to explain. He is almost too kind to me. I tease him that he isn't a chase at all. In our R he has always been the one to love more. He wants to go shopping with me, he wants to be involved in every part of my life. When I go out with friends, it's always like, well what am I going to do. We do have alot of fun together, but there is just too much togetherness. From the outside, people think he is just the best H in the world, but it can be smothering on the inside. I like to explain it this way...he keeps me on a short leash. He never gets tired of being with me, which makes me feel bad that I do get tired of being with him. I talk to him about this very much and it is helping. He did find some things out about my R with OM and it made it worse for a while. Things are calming down now though. OM said once, your H knows what you are doing and where you are at every moment...he was right and I hate that.
Yep, I got married and had kids young also. I'm 42 and definately having an identity crises. It has not helped that I have worked with my H since having kids. It's like I just wanted something of my own that he had no control over. I liked having a secret from him.
OM did turn out to be mean and cruel to me. I asked him once if it was a "be mean to the one you like" thing and he said he didn't treat me any differently than anyone else. He always said he used to be a mean person but saw the light. I don't think that light was bright enough or something. It was more like he was very jealous of what I had. Like he wanted that kind of life for him. Unfortunately he had lied to me in the beginning. He told me he broke up with his long term girlfriend because she wanted to get married. I thought he didn't want a serious R and this would be fun. It turned out she broke up with him and he did want a R. That is when I started thinking why he was jealous. I have never understood the cruelty to a friend that was always so nice to him. You know, why be mean to someone that likes you?
He was the first guy to flirt with me and pursue me. I work from home and don't meet that many guys. As time went on, I found out he was living with his parents, didn't have a car (he was 31). By this time I already liked him. When he got fired I should of ran like the wind. It's like that was the turning point. From that point on I really can't figure my actions out.
Thanks again, C
Ok, I may be waaaayyy off base here, but I wanna ask you a few more questions about your marriage. When you say you kept on a short leash....what happens when you don't listen? What happens when you want to go with your friends? Or just have some "me" time? DO you ever do these things with or without permission? Are there limitations to how you spend your free time? your parenting time? Do you do activities that YOU enjoy doing, with AND without your H? When you say "He did find some things out about my R with OM and it made it worse for a while. Things are calming down now though." what was worse? your freedom; the ability to come and go?
Also...when you wrote: "OM said once, your H knows what you are doing and where you are at every moment...he was right and I hate that"
Yikes....if you hate, then THAT'S A PROBLEM. Does your h really know what you are doing and where you are every moment? Are you ok with that?
Again, these are things that a popping out to me as potential areas of concern...or maybe its just that I am hypersensitive to things right now...seeing that I am making my way out of a very controlling and abusive marriage. But like you, I married young (20---young and dumb..lol) and have been married for 15 years, 4 beautiful dd's. To the outside it seems like we have it all, and people who don't know my h well think he's wonderful, too....but they have no idea of the hell I live in. And trust me...*I* didn't even see it myself, though countless friends did and told me so...but after 14 years I only started addressing it.
As to OM....I know its hard right now...but honey, count yer blessings....omigosh, just imagine if you left your life for him? Can you ever imagine? If I get the chance, I relate a story of a friend of mine, who has had 2 wives cheat on him, but the last one gave it ALL up for a drug addicted parolee and is now living on the streets. I'm telling you, sometimes these affairs bring us way low....but, hey, there is no place to go BUT UP!!
dharma
ps...if you prefer to answer any of these questions off the email, off the boards, click on my name and send me one.
Why can't you move on and leave him in the past? I asked myself the same question for a very long time. I never came up with an answer. I didn't want to give up the exhilerating feeling? I missed the laughter and the great s-e-x? I just couldn't stand not winning? I don't know...I'm not sure why to this day why it took me so damn long to move on. All that I knew is that I had to , in order not to self destruct. This man was not worthy of me, not worthy of me destroying my family over. I was a cake eater, i wanted him and my nice comfortable life.
Getting back to you, you have to really move on this time. have you considered therapy? NC is helpful, contrary to what people say that break it and go on and become "buddies" with their ex-lovers. And please, don't leave here. You need support. You need to find out what is missing in your life that makes you want to be with this man.
Jazzdiva
Hope to chat with you sometime.
Kas
Jazzdiva