Id... question for you...
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| Mon, 04-25-2005 - 1:24pm |
Hello All,
Id, I have a lot of respect for you since you still work with xMM and still you have been strong. You mentioned in one of your posts:
"I worked fervently on disconnecting any and all emotional triggers"
Can you tell us more? I don't know how to suppress all these feelings and I'm miserable.
Here's my story in short (well, it's not short, it's more long-term I'm sad to say):
I am married. I am also the business partner of MM. My A has been going on for 9 years on and off with MM. We live in different towns but are required for work functions to see each other several times per year (usually overnight trips). I have wanted this to end so badly that I even tried to sell my portion of the business but for financial reasons that didn't work and isn't an option right now.
I am stuck in this situation. For 9 years I have vowed that it is over then proceeded to be intimate with him again and again. It's like I'm helpless to the situation (which I know isn't true). I feel I truly love MM but also know that he is shallow and doesn't feel deeply - and that means not feeling deeply enough about me to do anything, and not deeply enough about his poor marriage to actually leave it. I'm not in a situation to leave my H I have young kids and don't know if I could really leave even if MM did. I love my H and know he's "best" for me but can't stop the insanity.
The problem is that I hurt deeply (as in crying 4-5 times per day) for about 2 months everytime after I see MM, only to commit to not doing this when I see him next time, to him wearing me down when I see him next, to me being depressed again for another 2-3 months. This has gone on for so long that it's part of the way MM and I interact. We have quite a bit of contact at work but usually it's confined to business. I am perpetually distracted, don't laugh deeply, and have become someone I can't respect. For 9 years I've felt like I have something to hide (and I obviously do). Because MM isn't the sort where I can call him and be "raw" about my feelings I feel like I have no one I can share any of this with.
I'm depressed because I know it's wrong to do this to my (nice) husband, I love MM (although after reading the posts here I question if I really do), and MM isn't very attentive after we part - which makes me feel even more angry and incredibly hurt that I did it AGAIN.
I've read so much on this board and know NC is the way to go... even know limited contact is good when it can't be total NC.
BTW, you guys that have "only" a couple years invested in the time-wasting misery... be happy that you're hear ending it - looking back on almost a decade of my life wasted in this - yet to be solved - mess isn't pretty.
I think I finally want this to end so badly that I'm willing to actually do it (attempt at humor).
WIP

I had four years invested in my mistake-but I will respond. I read your post and you admit to being stuck, and what seems to be an affair-seems to me-to be a dysfunctional
relationship. You see him, and feel depressed after, and he shows no interest in you beyond that "time" you have together. Don't take offense- to my wording- but it is dysfunctional. You're letting yourself be used by this man, you even seem to know that's how it is. You seem to intend to want out of it, but are always 'worn down by him"..
You have to do something big here, to get this over with. By big I mean- a) make an appt. with a therapist or counselor. talk to them about this as you go about the ending process. and b) if there is any way you can NOT be on these trips with this man, do it.
You say you have small children. But you are their mother. Defend the rights of your own children's lives and mother--by saying NO. Tell him you are not letting him use your body for his entertainment purposes any longer. Tell him you mean no and if he doesn't back off you will report him for harassment. I know that sounds harsh but your post is this huge alarm sounding. I can hear it. You can hear it. First thing I want you to figure out with or without a therapist is how you can love a man who isn't there for you? He truly isn't. This doesn't sound like a give and take relationship even in the realm of affairs..it sounds like you are giving of yourself- and you are being taken. Letting yourself be taken. You really do have the power to stop this, for your own sake and your children's sake. Respect who you are inside, too much to let this man keep wearing you down. Nothing about this sounds like love to me. (((((((((((((Working)))))))))))
Sending you hugs, and please remember you deserve much better than this.
Dear lealavendar,
First, let me thank you for replying. You're helping a whole nation of folks that have no one to talk to about the terrible situations they've created.
Second, I agree 100% with all that you said - it is currently dysfunctional. In fact, I was appalled after I wrote the message and re-read it. Facts don't lie. It's amazing how far from center you can get when you don't have girlfriends telling you "why in the world are you doing this?" (I have told no one).
I did leave out a few parts to cut down on the length. Going back many years it was more give and take then now. The pain was more about us not being able to be together, not about how disrespectful he is to me. I do think he takes me for granted. And I wish I could leave the business since I don't think I would look back if I could break free. Staying in it is forcing me to quit without the help of changing the situation.
I did pretty much stop the A 3.5 years ago. There were fewer trips and I stayed at an arm's length from him while on them. In Dec 2004 we spent a lot of time together on a trip and in Feb it happened again - I got pulled back in.
The Feb trip was the one I was truly depressed after since the alarm did sound loudly that this wasn't about two star-crossed lovers (as I had thought for years)... it was about him and it was shallow. He isn't there for me and it makes me wonder what I've been getting out of this for so long to keep it up.
I think it just took me a long time to realize it wasn't love - and that this is bringing me down to such a low point. There is no joy in it. I do look at my daughter's eyes and think "what advice would I give them if they were doing this" - it's so obvious and so painful.
Thanks again, I need to hear every last word of it - I did it once and I can do it again... this time for good.
WIP
Hugs to you. I do identify with the part about him not being there for you. My exMM always said he would be there for me/wanted to be there for me..but truly he really wasn't. He knew it and admitted it, and even admitted that I seemed to always be there for him and he was grateful for it. It took one of those emails he wrote where he said that stuff--to make me look at the words...and really see. I kept thinking "Huh. I'm always there for him..he's grateful for it and he says he knows he hasn't always been there for me"...It was like a light went on..that I hadn't allowed for four years. I
felt so stupid at first..and then got mad and thought how ridiculous of me to be there for him!!?? Towards the end he admitted that and also wished and hoped we'd stay friends. He kept telling me how important it was for me to be in his life even if just a friend. Which again, would have been to make HIM happy..despite how I felt..and I wrote him some very harsh but truthful words and said I would not be his friend. That I could not do it. For the first time I have felt completely GOOD about walking away from what I put too much effort and emotion into for four years. It hasn't been easy to get to this point..but it feels so much better to not allow this anymore. Someone posted somewhere on this page about "Abandaholics"..Well before I met my husband I was one of those. I was more addicted to men and guys who couldn't really be there for me. If a guy I liked turned into a guy who gave me predictable attention, I was turned off soon after. My husband has always been loving and wonderful and by the time I met him, I was done with that cycle. So this exMM--I feel..has kind of been like a reminder of my past and there i was addicted to the cycle of his hot and cold attention. My father didn't give me a lot of outward affection..and was not "there" in a lot of ways. That is probably what made this "role" easy for me. Sorry for the long post..but it helps me to do this. I am really trying to figure out why this happened, and I am slowly figuring it out.
Lealavendar, I am fascinated by what you said about the hot and cold cycle and the predictable attention.
This pretty much fits me to a T. My father was not a kind man (although not physically abusive to me directly - he was just unavailable emotionally and I didn't get much, if any, positive attention). I used to think my father had no effect since he was basically not involved in my life. Now I belive it had a huge impact.
Before I was married (14 years ago - although I got married young) I was in search of a hot-and-cold-cycle guy that I could magically "win" over. When I met my husband I knew he was consistent and even though it wasn't as passionate there was a good comfort level with him and I knew I could trust him (still true to this day). I was sort of worried in the back of my mind that the hot-cold interest would come to the surface again since H wasn't satisfying it.
I think that's why I ended up in this role with MM. I told MM recently that he runs hot and cold - he said "that's probably fair." He is amazingly attentive when we're together and has been shocked that I feel rejected when we're apart, when he's not calling or reaching out to me. He says he isn't doing it intentionally (and I agree) but I told him the result is the same.
Ironically, right after I posted today he called (which doesn't happen often). It was about work although I could tell by his tone that he was checking to make sure I was okay too. I was all work though.
I can't say 100% obviously because I never thought I'd be in this spot, but the pain throughout the years has been so great that I don't think I ever could put myself in this position again no matter how tempted. I think once I extract myself from this (again) things will be okay. I understand myself more now than I did before.
Tell me, after all you've been through and where you are now... do you still sometimes think in the back of your mind "Maybe when we're 65 and he realizes how special it was and his wife has left him - then it might work." Or are you finally to a point where you wouldn't take him even if he was available? I know when I get to the point when I don't still think this way that I will have "arrived." Right now I just can't get there despite the overwhelming data that says I should.
WIP
Makes me wonder what I was thinking!? But that's how it goes.. we're sometimes so chemically attracted to a person--we don't see these things till later when we take off the blinders.
<<>>
For most women, we become emotionally attached to men before we can be physically intimate with them. When ending an affair, you have to deprogram those emotions before you can finally walk away. I don't think we can surpress them, but we can desensitize them.
In our minds we believe that they love and need us, "No they don't" Do you think love is using someone for their body? Compromising a person's integity and letting them lie, cheat, and betray their loved ones? Expecting you to be at their beckon call when they can only give you a moment here and there? Reducing you to an ego-feeding machine? Telling you how special you are while they go home to their wife? THIS IS NOT LOVE.
Once you can seperate the feelings you have conjoured up in your head from the feelings he dishes out to you to get his needs met, you begin to see the fantasy for what it really is. Two people validating one another at the expense of destroying their family,
their reputation, their careers, and everything else that is *REAL* in their lives.
You already know you are miserable. It isn't going to get better until you disengage from what is causing it. Living a lie sucks the life out of your spirit and deprives the soul of nourishnment. Ending it - IS the only way to begin cleaning those affair toxins out of your system. More pain will come, but this time it will lead to healing.
Stop romanticizing this relationship. It is not beautiful and giving. It is ugly and selfish. This is what you have to think about in order to be able to emotionally disconnect. What we have done is/was shameful, to say the least. How can one hold their head up high when the weight of lies and deceit conitnues to bring it down?
Take care,
Id
Id,
u said it right, how can i look my best friend in the eye when i am lying and deceiving myself, i feel like i have no more integrity, that i am not worhty on my best friends friendship, best friend is the only person other than the people in this board that knows about my situation
how can i feel like i "love" OW when i was more miserable when i was with her, i traded a small amount of something for what seems like eternity of suffering and pain right now
i feel numb all the time, i go thru life like work because i need to pay bills and live, i dont feel like doing anything with my life anymore, so if this is what the affairs are all about then we might just as well shot ourselves in the head to save everyone all the pain
there is no "love" in an affair at all, we were fooling ourselves when we think we are "in love" with the other person, this i know is true for me now yet i still hang on to hope
im going nuts :)
max
(((Max)))
We made a mistake and now we are paying for it. The good news is, it *DOES* get better. There are no quick fixes in life other than destructive ones. An affair *IS* one of those quick fixes that we allowed to control us, and healing from one takes courage, strength and lots of *TIME*. For me, it took 6 months before that constant inner ache began to subside, but first I had to accept that what I had done WAS WRONG. As long as we blame others for our weaknesses, we will remain in the darkness of the affair fallout. No one held a gun to our heads. We are 100% guilty of the actions we chose to take, and although our AP willingly participated in this mess as well, it is ourselves that we have to hold accountable. Only then can we move forward, and with this comes understanding and forgiveness.
Keep your chin up,
Id
Dear Working:
You asked the question about "arriving" when you don't still hold out hope about being together when you are 65 and his W has left him.
I don't have that "hope" anymore. And it is because I have chosen now that I don't want him ever again forever. That I CAN AND WILL live without him FOREVER.
I say this in part because I am in love with another wonderful man now, after I left my M and xMM left me and I grieved for over one year thinking he would return to me.
But I also say it because I am returning to the person that i was before-- the Christian with moral values who wants to be faithful to her husband forever and never hurt him (my new love of 5 months--who has asked me to marry him)
Not only do I long to be that person again FOREVER but also xMM does not deserve another chance EVER. He blew it. Sometimes the greatest gift of self respect and self love that you can ever give yourself is to not give someone who blew it another chance. CONSEQUENCES.
I really know that it is right and true that even if things did not work out with the man I am now with, that I would never give xMM another chance. He made his choice and his choice has forever consequences because I am worth it, I am worth enforcing those consequences forever. I have learned to live without him (I never had him to begin with)and being this person that I want to be and am without him is worth giving up our love for.
Survive
Survive,
Your post is the feeling I am walking towards. I've had to re-read it several times to try to figure out how many emotional miles I am from feeling "He made his choice and his choice has forever consequences because I am worth it."
I do feel I'm worth it - I just can't quite reach the "forever consequences" YET. Forever just seems so long... so, so long.
Until I allow myself to move forward without him *forever* I know I am forcing myself to be stuck here. I know only I can release myself. I tell myself this all day long... and I am coming around slightly and I am worth it. I AM WORTH IT.
Oh, it's hard.
Thanks for the post... and I do keep hearing the song "I will Survive" whenever I see your user name... in fact, the lyrics are just on point...(just had to look them up)
WIP
"I Will Survive" Lyrics
by Gloria Gaynor
First I was afraid
I was petrified
Kept thinking I could never live
without you by my side
But I spent so many nights
thinking how you did me wrong
I grew strong
I learned how to carry on
and so you're back
from outer space
I just walked in to find you here
with that sad look upon your face
I should have changed my stupid lock
I should have made you leave your key
If I had known for just one second
you'd be back to bother me
Go on now go walk out the door
just turn around now
'cause you're not welcome anymore
weren't you the one who tried to hurt me with goodbye
you think I'd crumble
you think I'd lay down and die
Oh no, not I
I will survive
as long as i know how to love
I know I will stay alive
I've got all my life to live
I've got all my love to give
and I'll survive
I will survive
It took all the strength I had
not to fall apart
kept trying hard to mend
the pieces of my broken heart
and I spent oh so many nights
just feeling sorry for myself
I used to cry
Now I hold my head up high
and you see me
somebody new
I'm not that chained up little person
still in love with you
and so you felt like dropping in
and just expect me to be free
now I'm saving all my loving
for someone who's loving me