I'm a little scared to even post this...

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Registered: 03-26-2003
I'm a little scared to even post this...
13
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 7:09pm
Afraid that I will get a verbal scolding for even going there... but I had such an emotional day, both in a too-long discussion with XMM and then in therapy... and I just need to figure out what it is I want anymore...

Started off talking to XMM, and I didn't think it would be more than a little casual chat as we were in the same workspace at the same time, and others were around (but unfortunately they left after a little while)... and somehow it turned very serious and emotional... he opened up to me perhaps more than he ever has before, and I shared more of myself with him too... He talked about his marriage - his lack of desire for his W and whether or not he wants to stay with her or pursue his other options (he does not lack for women chasing him)... we talked about how I am working on mending my marriage... about his guardedness and unwillingness to let anyone, including his W, get close enough to ever risk him getting hurt. He didn't flirt at all, he didn't try to see if I'd sleep with him again... it was just truly connecting on an emotional level.

He asked me what I would have done if he had said he loved me, back when I told him that I fell in love with him - and I told him I would have run away with him, even though we both know we are NOT well-suited to being a regular couple, even though we both admit it'd never work out. But at the time, I was completely blind to anything but my emotions... and he told me that he will never regret that we were together, but he's happy for me that I was able to learn and grow from the experience and hopefully figure out what was missing in my life and in my marriage... and try to fix it...

But the whole conversation - which was almost an hour long... just tore me up. It makes me miss him so so so much, both emotionally and physically. What I want, even though I KNOW how incredibly wrong it would be, is for him to fall in love with me. Never going to happen, would be so bad for me if it did... but it's what I wish for when I'm being honest...

So I went to therapy (and I needed it today)... and told therapist about how things are at home, and all about the talk with XMM today... and told her about my sex-life with H and how terribly much I miss XMM, both physically and emotionally... and she seemed shocked and sad to hear what things are like with my H, sexually. And while she agrees that it's not time to throw in the towel on our marriage, she admits that my H isn't making it easy to try to fix things... he tends to just say that no one thinks he ever does enough or tries enough and he can't change. And she pointed out to me that today, XMM gave me much more emotional connection than H almost ever does. Which is a change because before, NEITHER of them gave much emotionally... I have just been so lonely - long before I met XMM... I just didn't realize it until the affair made me look at my life... Therapist asked me if I would go with XMM again if I could "handle" it, and I said I would, in an instant... then she asked me if I could handle it... and I just said "that's how I ended up here in therapy."

I feel so close to the edge. I miss XMM so so so terribly much. I know he doesn't care enough about me, and it would destroy me emotionally if I went back with him. I can't handle an EMA - if I could, I wouldn't be on this board. I need my H to WAKE UP before it's too late. I know he is capable of so much more than he's giving me now... he's a good man... but I don't know what to do anymore if he won't make an effort. I'm feeling hopeless and scared and so very very alone...

Glinda

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Hi Glinda, I am so sorry to hear that you had such a rough day. It is so hard when the MMs do connect with us emotionally. My XMM and I were well suited in EVERY way. Only problem was he wouldn't leave his W. We connected emotionally and the sex was INCREDIBLE. Intimacy with my H both emotionally and physically is practically non-existent. I need to get back to therapy by myself to figure that out.

Anyway, this is why I say that NC is REALLY the best way to heal. If you can't have NC, at least set some boundaries with conversation and don't let him cross them. (You either :)). I don't have any other advice for you. You won't get any strong words coming down on you from me, I could easily be in the same boat if I did have contact with XMM; thankfully I don't have to see him.

Keep strong and by the way, have you asked your therapist about revealing the affair to your husband? What does the therapist think?

Take care and God bless, Cathy aka rebldg_mylife...

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Thanks Cathy... for not berating me. I've cried enough (again) today... and I would LOVE to have NC - it would be 100 times easier... but I can't have it - and that almost ties into your other question...

To achieve NC would involve some life changes which would likely reveal the EMA to my H. And I can not let him know about it. Ever. And we have talked about this - my therapist and I - in detail. She agrees with me, absolutely, that he can never be told. She agrees that it would be only destructive in our situation - that my H could never ever handle it or get over it or forgive or forget. And that as much as it might possibly WAKE HIM UP - the risks are too high. It would only serve mostly to relieve my guilt, and that is just something that I'll have to struggle with on my own. I took the burden on when I said yes to XMM... it's not fair to try to relieve myself of it now, and hurt my H irrepairably in the process... The bad parts of confession greatly outweight any possible benefit in my situation... I can't speak for anyone else's situation... just the choice I have to live with in mine.

Glinda

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Registered: 03-25-2003
Glinda,

I've read your post and response in this thread and I am a little confused as to why you are choosing to stay in your marriage.


I'm not advocating continuing your relationship with MM, either. I'm puzzled why anyone chooses to stay in a relationship of any sort that places emotional demands that are not in balance. I believe I read in your first post that your H is not willing to continue to look at himself and his part in creating a marriage that has not and does not encourage two way communication with you. No one is always wrong. No one reaches an end to what they can do with their part of a relationship. To do so contributes to the other partner feeling they are without any other recourse than seeking relief outside of the relationship. At least, that's my opinion. Because ultimately, the partner that is on the receiving end of this type of communication throttling, in this case you, will either find another EMA to feed the emotional need OR leave the marriage. I hope that you will not commit emotional suicide and stay in your marriage without H addressing further his part in this dance. You need and should be getting better resolution from H about his own responsibility for the health of your marriage.

As for me, I went through 17 years of serial long term affairs as my way of coping with someone who refused to accept any responsibility for the failings of the marriage. I stayed until I finally had enough of staying with someone that would not make ANY changes to her behavior to keep the marriage going. I think I really understand your comments about your relationship with your MM and your H and I think that while it makes sense to not discuss your affair with your H, I also think it makes sense to work with your counselor exploring a lot more about you and how to handle your expectations of life. Yours. Not your H's. He's got his own agenda that doesn't seem to include a priority of coming to the middle ground with you.

It seems to me one of the attractions for you of the MM was that he was willing to listen to you and your ideas about where you wanted your life to go. Even if you end up single, I encourage you to look long and hard at the prospect of staying in your marriage without getting the emotional support you have the right to experience within your marriage. Weigh that misery against what changing your life to single or pursuing the relationship with MM or another man.

If after weighing the pros and cons of staying in a marriage that isn't working you decide to leave, do so knowing that you have taken the relationship as far as it can go and you need to move to a place of emotional health for yourself.

I did it. It wasn't easy. And the transition was painful. The only recurring question that keeps popping up in my head now is why I waited so long to step into my fears and live the life I really wanted. That is the way we are all supposed ot live our lives...


jmho

cl-nre

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
suggestion:)

Go to your husband and tell him you are VERY attracted to another man.

Tell him you WILL not live like this with emotional distance.

You must INSIST he make a full court press of working WITH you in counseling to work out these issues NOW not next week.

YOU then must FULLY disengage FROM this buffer zone of the OM..have NO contact AT all and feel the full FORCE of being alone with your emotions.This back and forth stuff is eating you by inches.

You MUST realize and get it FIRMLY in mind that ADULTERY is wrong.Period. Not manageable..not worrisome..not inconvenient.WRONG..And assimilate that INTO your very fiber or you could someday wind up in another affair with the same unavailable man in a different skin thats all.

You tell hubby..LOOK..I want a GREAT marriage...a WHOLE marriage and I WILL have that with you or we can call it a day.MEAN that.

If he is LOUSY sexually..he can be TAUGHT what to do.

If there is emotional distance...,thats common in affairs...people usually withdraw by inches YEARS or MONTHS before ENGAGING in affairs....which is why the OM looks so good in COMPARISON.

MANY men have heard for SO long you arent happy, arent glad..are miserable by WORDS and they can tune you OUT if the FEET dont match the lips.Thats the nuts and bolts of it.Women OFTEN cry, roll on the floor, pout, withdraw, say nothing, tell their girlfriends everything, whine, sit in the corner, plead and beg and roll over and play dead. When they believe you mean BUSINESS? They crap or get off the pot.

Men like SPECIfics...and not vague generalities...thats the truth.You want more sex a CERTAIn way, you say I want more of this..move your hand there please and SHOW them specifcally what you want. MORE cards?ask for them....MORE kisses..ask..and the ones who have gotten sort of lazy are usually VERY happy to oblige because frankly? Men LOVE to please women they love and LOVE to KNOW they are doing it RIGHT.

They need to HEAR they are when they do and need to be SHOWN what ya want when they Don't. Kindly and with love and FULL attention...not diffused with some man who is married, unavailable and is showing by HIS actions that he is capable of being a cheater.Give some time tables...and back them UP..Say point blank you NEED this from hubby..it is EXPECTED ( not begged for like a dog...you will SETTLE for nothing less and the ball is in HIS court..but do NOT make any ultimatums you wont deliver on.

I have seen time and time AGAIN, women who said their marriage was dead in the water, when they give FULL attention to the mate...get in counseling and making some NON negotiables...see miracles occur.Ive YET to see it when the woman is fooling with another guy in the picture in ANY context, him in the background JUST being friends and a buffer zone and her NEVER feeling the full force of just being alone with her EMOTIONS without the push and pull going on.

Hon thats as blunt as I can say it.

You have to really decide what you want, write it out, think it over,go to your husband and lay the cards out on the table..tell him you are REALLY attracted to other men who give attention...and DONT want to get in *toruble*..but are not a robot but a human being and action MUST be taken.

Period.

Thats what I think.

I am no college kid..or some 20 something chick who is talkingtheory here.

I was in an INTENSE 7 YEAR emotional affair..it got physical without actual intercourse...was long distance and a miracle occurred in my own marriage...and it involved actually separating a short time so he KNEW I meant business. The emotional distance was awful..and I had NO feelings..ZIP for hubby. I had TOTALLY zoned out on emotions....NOW? Its great...it took work...it took HONESTY of emotions..it took a 100% FULL deal not some half hearted measures.....and I know if it DIDNT work..it would NOT be because I didnt give it ALL I had.

When I hear women say"I give it all I got "..and they are still seeing the OM? I say its a pipe dream..you AREN'T giving it all you have UNTIL the OM is OUT of the picture.

When the dude is OUT of the picture then you can START to get him OUT of your HEAD.Not until.

The bottom line has to be in my book..adultery..and i use that word..adultery is WRONG.

it STARTS in the heart..not Motel Six.THATS where people wind UP..they dont START there.

It goes south from there..it gets nasty..it hurts people and lives get RUINED.

Marriages get bad..and THEy go south and soon all ya have is shattered dreams, NO self respect, the sneaking around DRIVES the affair you know...( bring out you are getting ATTRACTED to other men and see how FASt the INTENSITY starts to disappear)...it FADES quickly. and soon honor and the whole kit and kaboodle has ya wrapped up in KNOTS.

These are my suggestions...and also please stay AWAY from this mans desk.

There is NO such thing as a CASUAL yak session when you are getting out of this stuff.Its like a drunk saying he is doing ONE sip of booze and not gulping the bottle. he will be back to square one overnight.You have to look at it EXACTLY like that..an addiction you cannot participate in and get a few mild hits of now and then.

The mates HAVE to be taken into consideration here..and the old line..his wife doesnt excite him sexually? That is as OLD as Moses...Go to the BS board.....a LOT of those women were sleeping with hubby every night..while HE is telling the OW she doesnt turn him on.

Dont buy it.You CAN do this..and be strong..but NO one is strong who will NOT acknowledge their weaknesses.You can do it...but NOT with this man in the picture.Only you can decide what steps you will take. They wont be easy....but they can lead to good, honorable and FABULOUS stuff..but not the wway you are going.Keep the head UP..eyes CLEAR...and yes...start figuring STRONGLY what you need for you to be WHOLE....and DO it!:)

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Dearest Glinda, Sweetpea3 My DD is #1, her best friend is #2 and now you are #3! Boy oh boy! I have walked this road! My XOM had so much more he could give! He was and is the love of my life! Hard fact is I was another conquest. I don't want to hurt you! I know how hard your day was! I soak up other peoples feelings like a sponge. Do you? I'm guessing YES! Do you want to find yourself? Or do you want to please someone who will spit in your eye? I know how harsh that question sounds! But, Baby I speak from experience.

You rejected him right? Told him no more. He flaunts his new conquest in your face, right? You deserve so much more then this crap! Just as I did! I ignored so much that was right there! I kept thinking if I just tried harder, was prettier, thinner, younger..... wrong! My guy was a user and always will be. You walked away and now he wants to win. He wants to get you back and walk away from you so he is the winner.

You owe me nothing!!!! But, I'm going to ask a favor of you? Don't let him do this to you. Keep walking away from him so you can be the winner here! I didn't have the tools to do it then. Knew better but had not found this board and had no support. The favor I ask is this: Win for both of us? You CAN! Actually you'll be doing it for 3! YOU, my XOM's 1st LADY, and Myself.

Between the 3 of us there is 7 yrs. 3 months of this bull pucky! 3 husbands,3 wives and I don't remember how many kids you have but, yours plus 5!!! That's 11 plus your children! 2 men have no right to destroy the lives of 11 plus people! I'm being conservative here! Count our parents, sibs and friends! The repercussions never stop!

I know I was pushy! I do it for you! I have no desire to see Glinda become the Wicked Witch of the WEST! I apologize for being blunt I know you were reluctant to post this!!! But, run as fast and as far away as you can from this guy! Mine wouldn't say I love you! Then he did and I believed him. Even said he would marry me after over a year! Didn't want to marry him but, oh that felt good! He was a con to the con's! You touched my heart and now I ask you to put your hand on your own and cover it up! He is toxic! RUN!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
A. you have changed so much since you first came to this board. How can you advise Glinda to do this? It is a mistake to do something so radical. What is up with you? You dispense advise so freely but, never talk about you. I know that when we say we have ended it there is something in those of us with strong personalities that doesn't want to talk about the reality of our pain.

I will and I am for you! Both of us came here around the same time. It's been a hard road to walk. Very hard. I still have my sad moments and always will. They have become much less frequent. Do you still cry? I do! Not everyday, every week, but now and then. It used to be all day everyday! Do you still miss him? I do and always will! But, I know it was not meant to be! I am better off without him! You talk about God! God is inside of me and holds me dearly everywhere I go. He does you too! But, to be blunt here, I worry about you! I pray for you! There is something you don't want to tell us. You originally came here for support! You still have it! You always will! Please don't feel like you have to suck it up now and be the strong one! You are a human being and all of us need open arms to hold us, shoulders to lean on, and ears to hear us! Mine and everyone elses are here for you! Please A.?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Hi Glinda,

I can relate to alot of what you have posted. I think that if my OM decided that he had really cared for me I would have ran away with him too!!! But he didn't want to put his feelings on the line while I am married and I was afraid that if I divorced it would've been a mistake as well as other issues divorce brings. But you will get no criticism from me!!! I can only imagine how it feels to be in close contact with OM and not have some kind of feelings!!! Hang in there....I'm sure you will make the right decisions for you!!!

Karry

Avatar for guardedticker
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
What I'd like to give you is definitely NOT a tongue lashing! What you need Glinda is a plan of action. What I have found by living through what I have is that the more emotionally involved with this OMM you are, the more indecision you are going to be filled with. It keeps the internal battle alive. So the first thing you have to do when putting together a plan of action is DECIDING that you are going to do what IS best for you. Since you are married, your priority has to be that relationship even if your heart doesn't want it to be. You see, until you start to walk in a direction that will TRULY benefit you, you're going to be filled with all this indecision, cloudy thinking and feeling alone. Why not make up your mind that it stops today?! The way you do that is by deciding to TRULY put YOURSELF first. It coincides with what Awiagina posted to you. And by doing that, you must know that to put yourself first and begin to live your life in a healthy way to begin positive changes in your life regardless of the outcome of your marriage, you have to take it one step at a time which means dealing with your marriage. I do believe from what I read about your conversation/contact with the OMM is that he has gotten to know you well enough to know what it takes to push your buttons. If you have discussed details with him regarding the problems in your marriage, then he knows just what to do as to not lose what he has with you. As much as I hate to portray all OMM this way, I simply have to. Until you allow yourself to begin to see this OMM in a different light, you're gonna be stuck. Awiagina is right. This isn't about him or your marriage. This is about taking care of you, no matter what it takes. This OMM is in no position to have a long term relationship with you, no moreso than you are with him so it is hurtful and pointless to discuss it. You have to square your shoulders and take responsibility for your own pain and decide you are going to do what it takes to eliminate it. I think it is fine that you and the OMM want to talk but it does no one any good to ask questions as in "what if?" All that does is bring up emotions and pain, just like you are going through. Make up your mind that life as you know it is not going to end tomorrow with your DH or this OMM and take the bull by the horn to get your OWN life together.

The plan is simple. You must tell this OMM that there are boundaries with your contact that cannot be crossed. You then have to make both him and yourself live up to it. If you can't do that, then you need to think about those life changes you spoke of. If the only way to get away from this man and your feelings for him is to change careers, so be it. It will take time and it never hurts to look. You will be surprised as you change your path and get back on the right one how the blessings will come your way. I personally don't buy into there being no way you can leave your job. There is always a way out of any situation if you are looking for the solution. By putting yourself FIRST, you will change your behavior even if you do stay on this job and this OMM will get the message. You just have to be strong enough to deliver it. Loving him is fine but not under these circumstances or at this time and you already know that. So to toy with it is constantly playing with fire and only prolonging your pain. Do you want real change? And are you willing to do whatever it takes to get out of your pain? Think about it.

I also agree with Awiagina regarding your marriage. If the answers your DH gives you don't fix the problems you are experiencing in your marriage, then how in the world are you supposed to be motivated at all to make things work with him no matter how great a guy he really is? How great can he be when he turns his back on your marriage relationship? He isn't willing to do everything it takes to save it and to say he's given up is no excuse. YOU have to make up your mind that you are not going to tolerate it. So let's outline the plan.

1) Set and keep boundaries that are professional only with this OMM. Your problems are yours in your marriage and his is his. It is wrong for the two of you to be leaning on each other and looking for any sort of support or to be consoled, period.

2) Do not accept your DH's excuses for allowing things to continue as they are. If he suggests that is what you should do or that he can do nothing more, then you better tell him how unhappy you are and that he is either going to have the willingness to step up to the plate and face the demons plagueing your marriage or you are going to separate. Let him get mad. Let him stomp his feet. Let him pout. Bottomline, you deserve to feel loved and fulfilled in this marriage just as much as he does. His willingness or unwillingness will be a test of the real love he has for you.

3) You take the appropriate steps to bring your life back to being healthy. This is so involved but it can be done. You just have to want it badly enough. Now, I do not want to overstep your therapists bounds but I have to address the issue of you not telling your DH about the affair...and this is just some food for thought. At some point, you may have to tell your DH. It isn't just about alieviating your guilt either. It is about you finding your way back to living an HONEST life. The ONLY and I mean ONLY way you can get through this without telling him about the A is to ask for forgiveness and believe you are for your wrong choices in having an A in the first place. And from that point on, you HAVE to get yourself on an HONESTY track. That you cannot do if you dabble with this OMM in any single way. Again, remember we are talking about YOUR HEALING here, not anyone elses.

4) Get determined. Take action and then don't look back. No matter the outcome, doing something is far better than staying in this situation that is causing you such misery. Make up your mind that you are putting yourself on a path of RIGHT doing and getting off this one that clouds your thinking, tears at your heart and weighs heavily on your mind.

In summary Glinda, I am divorced and living proof that life does go on. You just have to make up your mind that either those who claim to love you in your life are going to be willing to step up to the plate and go to bat for you OR STEP ASIDE! Because you've made up your mind that you are MOVIN ON with a healthy life that is filled with love, honesty and right living.

I am praying for you. Please take good care of yourself.

GT

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 03-27-2003 - 11:47am
Thank you to ALL who posted replies to me... I am glad I wrote, even though some of you were tough on me - no one said anything that I didn't need to hear...

Chris - you asked why I stay. I guess I haven't been completely fair to my H when posting, especially yesterday when I was particularly low. He is not a bad man, but he is not where I am right now because I am the one who changed the rules on him too! I took a marriage of two numb people, two people content to just float and not ask too many hard questions - and I started to ask those questions. He has made efforts to change. He is trying - maybe he could try harder, but there has been progress. Neither of us is perfect, and he is struggling to figure out who this new wife he has is... and what she wants of him.

Last night after I signed off, I went to bed. And I sat there and the tears started flowing... and H asked me why I was sad and I told him that I wasn't sure what I was feeling, other than sad. And that was true, as there were just too many things swirling in my brain. And I told him that I was afraid to try to open up right then... and he stopped me and said "you are afraid I'll blow up" and I nodded, and he said "I'm so sorry that I have made you fear that"... and so I did talk a little then. I told him I was scared that I didn't know what he was really thinking, what he wanted of me... We talked about what he has been trying to do to make our communication and connection better - I asked him to tell ME - that I had noticed some things he was doing, but I wanted to be sure I was aware of all efforts he is making. And then I asked him if he saw me doing anything and he told me what he saw... And he held my hand and did NOT yell or get upset... I have often clammed up because I didn't want to risk a discussion turning into a blowup - but he made me feel safe, and ok to talk last night... This is progress.

Someone else suggested I tell H I have a crush on someone... DONE THAT! Before the EMA got physical, I tried to talk to him, tell him I was having feelings, and that I was scared. But we weren't hearing each other well at that time, and it led only to suspicion on his part (justifiable, but not pleasant to live with) and hurt. He never outright asked me if I had an EMA... but I know he wondered... maybe he knows on some level, but I can't bring myself to ask him.

GT - you laid out goals for me, and I appreciate that, and I will consider them all and work on them. Everyone who said I must set limits, boundaries with XMM - you are right. I knew when it happened yesterday that I was giving too much of myself to XMM. He has to deal with his marriage and his behavior (he is a serial cheater and feels little or no guilt about his activities). I have my own marriage and he is NOT the one who can help me fix it, so he doesn't need to know what is going on in it.

I will continue to talk to my H. It seems that maybe he is slowly coming around. He DID agree to go to therapy with me (and has gone twice so far). He has done things that I have asked... I told him I need to be romanced, to be given actual tokens of his affection - and he has bought me flowers and even a card - this is a BIG DEAL for a man who never seemed to understand that these things mattered to me... He is saying "I love you" more, and with meaning, not just instead of "goodbye" on the phone... he is trying to reach out and touch me - hold my hand, rub my back... little things that we BOTH got too lazy to bother with after all these years...

I am taking steps to improve my life, including therapy. And forgiveness has been a big issue we've talked about - making amends, forgiving myself, turning back to God - because God never abandoned me, it was me who abandoned God for a while... and realizing that I am worthy of being forgiven and I do not need to be punished daily for the rest of my life if I am truly honestly sorry and working to fix things. And I'm not there yet, I struggle badly with guilt, but I am working on it...

I also have taken steps to get additional training for a new career that appeals to me. I had a career, a good one - before kids. Things have changed and that career no longer works for me - there is nothing for me to go back to there... so I found a new "passion" and I am going to pursue the education so that I can have something for ME. And whether my marriage works out or fails in the end, I will have this for ME.

FEAR has kept me trapped, for so long. My therapist made me face my fears - she made me admit to what they are and talk about the realistic outcomes of what I might face if I left my marriage. And if I stay married to my H in the long run, it will be because I CHOOSE to be here, not because I am immobilized by fear of leaving... That is one of my goals... nothing is written in stone yet in my life or my future...

I saw XMM again this morning. We didn't say more than hello in passing... and I did have an urge to try to talk to him again, but I told myself NO and I made myself think about what needs I was trying to meet and that there are better, healthier, less destructive ways to get my needs met. It's hard. It's minute by minute some days... but today was a small emotional victory for me...

THANK YOU again for all the replies... this is why I started posting on this board...

Glinda

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Awesome post Glinda! Print it and when you come across a low moment reread your own words! You know exactly what to do! Cherish the fact that your H is trying! Sounds like he's trying hard! Hurray! Did my heart good to hear your strength! Thanks!

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