Just when I thought I was over him.....

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
Just when I thought I was over him.....
16
Thu, 02-12-2004 - 7:46am
I broke NC. After 40 days of NC, I spoke with XOM again.

But I had no choice – XOM was in town to attend a function which I had to attend as well. And with so many colleagues around us, it would have seem very strange to ignore each other (since many people know we were close) and so we spoke on a few occasions. Which was fine and I thought I would make it through the night without too much bruises. Until I said I was leaving the function and he said he would walk me to my car.

Along the way, he told me he wanted to talk to me about my letter. I had written a letter to him a while ago in which I told him that I had to make a decision on what to do about my life, whether I was going to leave my M or move on in my life without XOM. For those of you who are not familiar with my life, XOM asked me on a number of occasions to leave my H, but I never knew whether to believe him, whether he was being sincere. One day he would beg me to leave my H and relocate to where he is, saying that he missed me so much and couldn’t live without me, but when he is back in his country, he goes quiet and I receive just the occasional one-liner email and the occasional phone call. Anyway, I reached a point where I realize I could not go on living this double life. I was tired of lying to my H, of feeling confused all the time. I wanted a normal life again. And so I decided to confront the issue once and for all. I told XOM in my letter that if he was sincere and earnest, to tell me truthfully and honestly and we can try to work something out. Otherwise, I was going to move on with my life. XOM didn’t respond, save to say that we need to talk about it, but that he didn’t have the time then. I didn’t want to hang on waiting for his answer. I had decided to stop sitting on the fence and if he couldn’t make a decision on what he wanted, I would. I told him I was moving on with my life, and asked him to let go of me. That was 40 days ago. I did so well in NC I could almost touch the finishing line, or so I thought.

I stayed to listen to what XOM had to say. Perhaps I was curious (but I should have known better. We all know what happens when curiosity gets the better of the cat!), perhaps I wanted closure. Whatever the reason, we sat on a bench in a public park and talked for 2 hours. XOM said he didn’t respond earlier because he wanted to talk about it in person, not over the phone or email. He said he tried to write me a letter but just didn’t know where to start – he said he wasn’t very good at articulating his feelings on paper. And then he told me that he didn’t want me to leave my H because of him, because if I did leave H for him, that puts tremendous amount of pressure on our relationship and if things didn’t work out between us, he would feel guilty and responsible for ruining my life. He said that he wanted me to leave my H for the right reason, which is for myself (because I feel there is something missing from my M and I am leaving because I think I can find someone (not necessarily him) out there who can give me what I need, or because I think I want something better in my life). To sum up 2 hours’ worth of talk, he didn’t want to be the one responsible for breaking up a marriage. And even if I were to leave my marriage, he didn’t think it was wise for us to jump into a “real” relationship right away and that we should only get together perhaps 12 months down the road.

I didn’t know what to think. I had a feeling that he was trying to discourage me from leaving my H by painting a possibly dark future (saying what if things don’t work out between us). But on the other hand, when I told him that if I chose to stay in my marriage I would want to work on it and I could never do so as long as he is in the picture and we have to end our relationship so that I could move on, he started to question me on whether I really wanted to go on for the rest of my life knowing that I was miserable and that my life and my M was not totally fulfilling.

Does this sound like a guy having cold feet but at the same time not wanting to let go? Or is XOM just being very practical? Does it even matter to me in the first place??? I thought I was over with all the questions, all the “What ifs” and “Maybe”.

I thought I would stay and work on my marriage. I think the period of NC has indeed done me some good. I found that I was able to get on with life without XOM, and that at some point, I forgot how much I missed him. But yet, he made me think if I am taking the easy way out, not having the courage to seek what I want and putting up with my M (which is happy, but there is no passion because I wan't get over the fact that I feel for H as I would a best friend) because I am too scared to walk away..........

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iVillage Member
Registered: 10-08-2003
Thu, 02-12-2004 - 8:38am
I wouldn't know, because I don't know either of you.

But based on what I've just read, it is very possible that you're being played. He didn't answer you via email? How hard would it have been to say, "Got your email, don't know where to start, so let's talk in person next month"?

Now, he clearly seems to have you on the fence again... status quo?... right where it would be convenient for him to have you. Just my thoughts. But I really don't know.

A final comment on what you said:

"he made me think if I am taking the easy way out, not having the courage to seek what I want and putting up with my M (which is happy, but there is no passion because I wan't get over the fact that I feel for H as I would a best friend) because I am too scared to walk away.......... "


1- I like to look at the words people choose to use when they're not conscious of choosing the words they're using. ?"He made me think..." Well what do you think, without him making you think? In other words, absent xOM, what do you think?

2- Does he have you thinking that you're simply "putting up with your H"? (Your first reaction will be to say, "No... of course not, Riverguy!" But don't answer just yet. Stop & think...

3- No passion.. Of course not. You have an exciting foreign lover. How can H compete w/ that? Oh yes.. he's busy making a living & doing normal day-to-day (un sexy) things. How can H compete w/ a fantasy?

4- Best friend... I can think of worse things to grow old with.

5- NC, NC, NC!!! Only away from xOM can you truly self examine, and examine your marriage and your husband. You said it best:

"But on the other hand, when I told him that if I chose to stay in my marriage I would want to work on it and I could never do so as long as he is in the picture and we have to end our relationship so that I could move on, he started to question me on whether I really wanted to go on for the rest of my life knowing that I was miserable and that my life and my M was not totally fulfilling. "

Of course he started questioning you & moving you to a decision that would be convenient for HIM.

Again, I don't know y'all so maybe I'm way off base. Hope I don't sound too critical & judgmental, because I don't mean to be. Reality is best, even when it is harshly served.


Good luck, tweety (uh, I mean Chickenhawk!)

;o)

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-18-2003
Thu, 02-12-2004 - 10:21am
Tweety~for what its worth....here's my opinion.....

No one can say definitively what his motivations are....maybe he's playing, maybe he's being honest. Ultimately it comes down to your gut feelings and what it is you want to do.

I do think there is some wisdom in what he was saying...and maybe some honesty...here are some of my thoughts on your/his message:

"XOM said he didn’t respond earlier because he wanted to talk about it in person, not over the phone or email. He said he tried to write me a letter but just didn’t know where to start – he said he wasn’t very good at articulating his feelings on paper."

Some people do not like to communicate via email...my exMM was similar and would leave the "heavy" issues to occur in person. He had a distrust of the computer/email (because no matter if you delete, it always stays on the hard drive somewhere, unless you get a scrubbing program). Much clearer communication also occurs in person....there is a chance to clear up any misunderstanding or misinterpertations and the body language says much---and you can't get that over the phone or email.

"And then he told me that he didn’t want me to leave my H because of him, because if I did leave H for him, that puts tremendous amount of pressure on our relationship and if things didn’t work out between us, he would feel guilty and responsible for ruining my life. He said that he wanted me to leave my H for the right reason, which is for myself (because I feel there is something missing from my M and I am leaving because I think I can find someone (not necessarily him) out there who can give me what I need, or because I think I want something better in my life)."

This, imho, is one of the wisest things ever said to another. He's absolutely right. Whenever you leave one relationship for another you are asking for a WHOLE set of different problems...as well as repeating the same bad relationship you "thought" you were escaping from. Passion dies over time...hopefully replaced by a deeper, more loving friendship. If you want to leave your h....it should be BECAUSE OF YOU, not because of xOM. It is also wise for him to suggest NOT to get involved for a length of time once you are out....this way, you can work on yourself, your issues (if you have them) and learn to bring happiness from within, not seeking outside. I've seen this over and over again....where people bounce from one relationship into another and then wonder why the 2nd relationship isn't cracked up to what they thought it would be.

In re: to your marriage...again, imho, IF you walk away without the feeling of having tried it all, you will always be left wondering...did I do enough? Passion, like that of a new relationship, CANNOT be sustained the entire relationship. You call your h your best friend? Wow...I'm jealous....that's how it should be (my h is a troll--lol). Passion can be "re-kindled" from time to time....but its replaced by a deep bonding friendship...hopefully.

My suggestion--regardless of your religious orientation--try Retrouvaille. It is the MOST phenomenal, intense marital program out there....really. Though it is promoted by the Catholic Church, it is not Catholicism SHOVED down your throat (which I was dreading...and pleased to see it wasn't). It is an INTENSE couple workshop----you do not share anything in groups, there is no one-on-one counseling...its you and your husband doing the work, privately. At the end of the weekend, you will be exhausted and exhilarated at the same time. If you and your husband ever had a good relationship at one time, THIS is where you can rekindle it. I can't rave about this program enough.

I would go into NC again....try working on the marriage...see how it goes. IF after some time you still feel like its not going to work...then leave...BUT FOR YOU. Don't even think of a relationship during that time...spend it on yourself.

Just my thoughts.....

good luck.

dharma

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
Thu, 02-12-2004 - 10:51am
Riverguy

Thank you sooooooooooo much. That's exactly what I needed to hear.

I too think that I am being played, and that he wants me back on the fence. I think I wanted so much to believe that what we had shared meant as much to him as it did to me (even if we decide not to take it any further), that he is not being a jerk (and he would be if he were manipulating my feelings) so much so that I chose to give him the benefit of the doubt, and think that perhaps he is just as confused as me. It's just that if I choose to think that it was nothing more than a game to him, then what we shared all these years were a total sham, and that's a tough pill to swallow.

Having said that, I have to clarify something - he did call me immediately after he received my letter. He told me then that he had read half my letter (it was a long letter. he called it a book) and was going to read the rest of it after he got through the day as he had to leave for a meeting. And he called me a couple more times after that, though we didn't speak about the letter. I sort of had a fight with him shortly thereafter. He said he would call on Christmas but didn't. I got mad and when he finally called a few days after, I cut him short, said I didn't want to talk to him. I didn't know why he didn't talk about the letter, was tired of waiting for him to raise it and the fact that he didn't call on Christmas was the straw that broke the camel's back. So I went into NC, not because I wanted to punish him or anything like that but because I realised that this was not going anywhere, and I should grow up and move on. I told him so and he said we needed to talk, but he didn't have the time then. To be honest, I know that to be true - I know for a fact that he was really busy and was travelling every week. But again, like you said, he could have said a little more.

In any case, it shouldn't matter any more. You took the words right out of my mouth when you said that NC is the way to go. Right now, the issue is no longer him, it's about me. If I decide to work on my M, NC is absolutely necessary. If I decide to examine my life and my M, to see if indeed the lack of passion is something that troubles me so much that I am willing to walk away from my M, then NC is still the way to go. Because as long as XOM is in the picture, he would always cloud my judgment. Don't think that was the result XOM hoped for when he asked me to examine my life and whether I wanted to go through life knowing that there could be so much more out there. How ironical.

NC NC NC NC NC NC NC NC NC

Thanks for giving me a kick in the butt. Ouch!! But I really needed that.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
Thu, 02-12-2004 - 11:13am


Dharma

Thank you for your wise words.

I agree with you absolutely that NC is the way to go. I suppose I would never know what his motivations are and I should stop trying to second guess him or trying to figure out if he was being sincere or playing a game. Perhaps its the ego in me - I don't want to think that I had been a fool all this while. I can't believe that I can be that naive. But again, so what if I am a lover's fool.

I can't suggest conselling. H is very intuitive when it comes to things like this. I think he had always suspected me of being in an A but chose to believe my lies possibly because it was easier for him to deal with that then the thought of betrayal. If I ask him to go for counseling with me, that would only confirm his worst fears. I don't want to start something that I may not be able to stop. I think it's something I have to try to figure out for myself.

In the meantime, it's NC for me. Back to Day one again. Gosh..... I feel like I am playing a game of snakes and ladder.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 02-12-2004 - 11:49am

Tweety, I think dharmagurl has called it pretty darn close.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-08-2003
Thu, 02-12-2004 - 3:56pm
One more thought. IF he is indeed playing you now... understand that that doesn't mean that he was playing you before, or even that he is consciously aware that he is playing you now.

Maybe what you had did indeed mean a lot to him. In the face of losing that, though, he could change.

Put another way. If I was losing my W right now, I could imagine going to lengths.. even if those lengths meant playing games... to keep her. When I was in my emotional affair, xOW & I were both playing games w/ each other, though we would never have admitted it at the time; it was a weird dance we were in. But losing that?!! OHMYGOSH. I was ready to do anything to keep that dance going. Don't stop the music!!!!

Does that mean I didn't really care? No. But, I didn't care as much as I had convinced myself that I did. I was fooling myself. It was a fantasy I was in love with, not reality. I'd like to say I was in love... but was I? I dunno. Love is my wife waking up at 3 a.m. because the baby crapped everywhere and is screaming and I'm pretending not to hear it. (just kidding... but that is love).

So maybe what he had was "sortof" real. Don't hate him for the games now, IF INDEED HE IS playing games (he may well not be). Maybe he is, but doesn't see it. But it is clear based on the little you wrote that he wasn't as ready for change as you were, and would likely say things to keep status quo. You're probably much further along on the road to "understanding" than he is. I'd guess... (but who am I? Just an anonymous internet dude). I don't really know.

Bottom line (and we seem to agree). NC is the way to go. You had a broken NC forced on you. I have to. But to the degree that you CAN control it, NC is important for getting our own heads on straight.

Good luck, Chickenhawk!!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-08-2003
Thu, 02-12-2004 - 4:00pm
Wow. Well put. Yeah.. What she said!!!

;o)

That program sounds great, too!

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-22-2003
Thu, 02-12-2004 - 8:37pm
Hi tweety - I don't know the full story, and I don't know what your xOM is like, but I think there is a grain of truth in some of the things he said. It really isn't wise to leave your husband for him (or anyone for that matter), and I understand why he said that. And I agree with riverguy that his response could be his way of holding onto the 'game' that you two are playing, because he doesn't want to lose you totally. You said he was 'not wanting to let go' - spot on. Of course he doesn't want to let go. Put yourself in his position - he's probably just as confused and what he tells you reflects his confusion. I sound idealistic, but I want to believe in the best of people, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, and suggesting that he cares enough about you to give you practical advice (hence the 'don't leave your husband for me' thing), but is sufficiently attached to you to want to be a little selfish and have you around because you fulfil some of his needs (hence, the feeling you get that he doesn't want to let you go.)

And the stuff about not being able to talk - tell me about it, I know tons of guys who don't like talking about serious stuff over the phone or email. I hate the phone myself.

The question is, if you leave your marriage for YOU, is he going to give you space to figure out what you want, and not jump straight into bed with you? Is he going to have the willpower to be a platonic friend?

I don't know what your marriage is like, but if your husband is your best friend, have a go at rebuilding. My husband is my best friend too, and I too had the same doubts as you, but I've decided to hang around and stay with him, AND work on my self-esteem AND our relationship BEFORE I decide if I'm 'settling' or 'too scared to walk away'. Don't see staying in a marriage and trying to rebuild as a cowardly thing to do, because it's not. It's a responsibility that you have to take because you made marriage vows. This is something that you and your husband have to work out first... it doesn't mean you have to tell your husband about your affair, but it means that you have to work on things TOGETHER. If all else fails, then have a re-think, but for now, I say to give your marriage a shot. In the meantime, re-start your NC with your xOM. You know from your own experience that it helps clear your mind.

Good luck. Here's a virtual hug for you. Hang in there tweety!

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
Fri, 02-13-2004 - 12:08am
Chris

So you think he really cares?

Hmmm .... on a poll, I have Riverguy who thinks he may be playing me, Dharma who is not sure but thinks there is wisdom in what he says, and you think he is putting me first. It is all so very confusing.

But you are right. I need to think about me and stop worrying about what other people think. The problem is, I tend to stay in relationships even though I am not happy just because I don't want to hurt the person I am with, and because I made a commitment to stay with that person (whether in a relationship or marriage) and it is very difficult for me to think of breaking that commitment. And I only walk away from things get really bad, like when I am being abused. I guess that's why I stayed on in my M even though I felt there was something missing, and perhaps also why I stayed in the A for so long (because XOM used to plead with me whenever I tried to walk away).

If I were to start thinking only about me, doesn't that make me a selfish person?
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
Fri, 02-13-2004 - 1:15am
Hi Riverguy

Thanks. That meant a lot to me - a guy's perspective. I really don't want to think he is a complete jerk, so I'll settle for "maybe he really cares but is playing games because he is afraid I will walk away totally". It is easier to get closure that way :)

Yes, sometimes I do get the feeling he doesn't want to change the status quo. But other times, I think otherwise. His behaviour is very erratic. Almost bizarre. There were several times when he came back to visit and said he really needed to see me, and when we met he would be begging me to leave my H, asking me not to go home or worse saying that he was going to come home with me to see my H. But he would have been a little drunk. And once we made love, he came in me (we are always very careful and have never done that before). I was so worried but never spoke to him about my fears and one day in the midst of our text messages, he said he wished I would get pregnant with his child and that would solve all our problems?? That's why I sometimes think he is very confused.

I just don't understand why, if he didn't want to change status quo, he would constantly ask me to leave my H... why lead me on?

What sort of games did you play with your XOM? Perhaps that can help to shed some light on my XOM's seemingly bizarre behaviour. I know I have already decided that it's not an issue, but I am just curious...

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