On lies - how deep do they go?

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-25-2010
On lies - how deep do they go?
17
Mon, 02-15-2010 - 11:38am

(This was origionally the start of a reply in the 'nothing is working' thread on 'if someone loves someone enough, they would do just about anything. But, then my ramblings went elsewhere and thought it should be a post on its own)

You know, I think the same could be said about most anyone. That 'mountains would be moved' (within reason, I suppose). And while there may have been love from xMM - it wasn't enough.
This is one of the biggest things I struggle with, all the time - from some of the things I gathered/was told, his M was emotionally (possibly financially) abusive and this is what made it difficult for him to 'get out'(if you email me I can be more specific). I, listened, 'understood' and became his confidant/support system 24/7, giving pieces of myself in order for him to be whole/strong enough to 'do what he needed to do', to get out. But, at the end of it - that love (or whatever it was) wasn't enough. Of course, whether the M was abusive or not is up for debate: was it all a lie to keep me in and 'understanding'? Perhaps, perhaps it was. If it wasn't a lie and was indeed abusive, well I think I know enough to 'know' that me (or anyone else for that matter) can't 'make' him leave, that is a choice only he can/could make if I'm in the picture or not.
What it comes down to, now anyway, is considering the stories here - if it was a lie, I don't suppose I can be terribly surprised. It tugs at the heartstrings, made me think that despite how hurt and not good I was 'how could I just leave someone I care for in the lurch while they are going through X, Y, Z?'. I have friends who are in SW and have had close girlfriends in the past who have had to deal with/get out of abusive relationships and I understand the 'shame' that surrounds them, especially emotionally abusive ones where there are no 'scars', no evidence. This is perhaps even more so for men who are never seen as having 'been abused' but more often the abuser (and in that sense I was hesitant to 'not believe' him, because I understood it may have been something difficult to share if it were indeed the case. As I'd said, I've seen friends go through it, had to do some research for a former job at one point on E/P abuse and he/the situation fit most of it to a T. I thought - how could it not be?). This really messed me up - I cared (and still do care) what happened and wand to see him 'out' for his own sake (which, of course, I obviously had an interest in. But, if it was what he said it was, then I had always thought he needed out in general. Or to work on it and have his W in IC to figure out her issues, and him - his). I was always torn between 'if it's so bad, and you yourself have called it abusive, why don't you just leave?', but at the same time recognizing that it's 'never that easy'. So, I was mixed up in being torn between those two thoughts, wanting him out because I cared, but being very aware of the fact that I obviously had an interest in him being out as well. But, as time wore on and I gave and gave with little in return, little change, one of the telling things about how I was 'really feeling' (torn, to say the least!) is that sometimes I would have to 'remind myself' of what he was going through in order to feel 'okay'. In order to pull through and get a bit more strength to 'be there'.
I do know now that 'in the end' whether it was a lie or it was the truth, doesn't matter from where I am. If it was a lie...then, I don't even know what to say. If it wasn't, he'll make his own choices whether to stay/to go/to fix it (if it can be fixed), or just keep on as things have always been. And, I can't concern myself with that. But, it's hard not to. He never spoke ill of her in the sense that he never painted her as intentionally mean and 'cold hearted b*tch', but more to the tune of 'the relationship (re: 'us together') isn't right/it's emotionally damaging/she does these things but I feel the need to 'protect her' from others seeing it that way/no one would believe me', and the list goes on. So...my head and heart are battling it out, as usual. I hurt because of everything that happened, but I also care how 'things turn out' for him. I worry. Yet, I know that there is nothing I or anyone can do for him (should it have not been all a lie, and it very well could have been), he's a 'big boy' (er, sort of?) and will do whatever it is he does, in his own time. Still, it's confusing and I guess I'm wondering - while I understand that there is a common theme of 'my W is cold/uncaring/doesn't listen/there is no S', etc, are common 'chargers', are articulated charges of 'emotional abuse' common as well?
Thanks again for listening folks. I think this is one of my bigger hurdles to get over!
((hugs!))

----
'It may be that when we no longer know what to do,
We have come to our real work,
And that when we no longer know which way to go,
We have begun our real journey'
- Wendell Berry

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-07-2009
Mon, 02-15-2010 - 11:44am

hello wcfem ...


i sent you a private email ... but I wasn't sure if you messaged back (I am not sure where to check?) and thought maybe you would be interested in connecting. I sometimes think we were seeing the same person.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-25-2010
Mon, 02-15-2010 - 11:49am

Hey J,

You check the email that is connected to your iVillage account (just to confirm without giving too much away - it's a hotmail account with an h in the handle, yes?). Check that out and let me know if it's worked (I replied to an email of yours a bit over a week ago). And yes, I would like to connect! Also seeing as how we have the academic thing in common as well ;)

----
'It may be that when we no longer know what to do,
We have come to our real work,
And that when we no longer know which way to go,
We have begun our real journey'
- Wendell Berry

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-07-2009
Mon, 02-15-2010 - 11:58am

Ahhh!


Okay, that makes sense.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-25-2010
Mon, 02-15-2010 - 12:01pm
done and done
----
'It may be that when we no longer know what to do,
We have come to our real work,
And that when we no longer know which way to go,
We have begun our real journey'
- Wendell Berry

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-07-2009
Mon, 02-15-2010 - 12:16pm
great - got it and replied!
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-25-2010
Mon, 02-15-2010 - 5:26pm

Yay! Now that technical issues have been sorted out ;)

...any ideas out there? Anyone else come across this type of thing? Is it normal?

----
'It may be that when we no longer know what to do,
We have come to our real work,
And that when we no longer know which way to go,
We have begun our real journey'
- Wendell Berry

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-11-2009
Mon, 02-15-2010 - 6:02pm

Hi, wc~


Here's my 2 cents...and it's coming from both my side and his...we are both m.


He told me he has been in a very negative relationship for 16 years, although he never referred to it as emotionally abusive. He didn't talk about his w much, but I did get:


'my W is cold/uncaring/doesn't listen/there is no S'


I also got that she was degrading and didn't allow him to be himself (whatever that means)...


After that was out there though, he never spoke ill of her again.....hmm...


I think he did exactly what I did: In an effort to make my having an a more acceptable (in my mind and to him), I lied about my m...how terrible it was...how seriously unhappy I'd been for years and years...when the truth is, my life was blah. End of story. I have a wonderful h, but we just became complacent...but I needed to justify my behavior to him (and me) and lied.


What it all comes down to is this: if people are unhappy and they have the means to get out of their situations (he did and I do), they do.


So, speaking from someone who lied through my

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-13-2010
Mon, 02-15-2010 - 6:34pm

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-25-2010
Mon, 02-15-2010 - 6:41pm

Hi Free,

First up, thank you! I can see what your saying, especially in terms of justifying things to oneself and the other person. I also agree on the 'don't believe everything you hear/are told', that's why I'm asking this ;)
I suppose what tripped me up was that he did out and out 'name it' as emotional abuse, and there were multiple and in-depth conversations on the subject (it wasn't just a one-off) but none of them were 'bitter' or angry - more...fear and shame (that he 'let that happen' to himself) than anything. He had mentioned more than once that 'he deserved better, that he wanted/needed out' but (for reasons that are too specific for me to get into here) that 'he didn't know if he could', I guess as you put it - those who can, do and either he 'couldn't', didn't see himself as 'being able' (which, if it were indeed a case of real emotional/financial abuse, isn't surprising), or it was all a lie to justify things to himself and to me. Because, if that were the case - it worked. It did keep me 'locked in' in a lot of ways, as I had said I was always thinking "how can I just 'walk' from this person if they are 'in this situation' and I care about him?".
So, I still do wonder...but, on the other hand I also know that there is nothing that I could do to change it for him even then, and there is nothing that I can do now...and, there isn't much sense in putting too much thought and energy into it (btdt already!). I just wanted to 'get it out there', because it did bother me/make me wonder.
Thanks again!
((hugs))

----
'It may be that when we no longer know what to do,
We have come to our real work,
And that when we no longer know which way to go,
We have begun our real journey'
- Wendell Berry

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-11-2009
Mon, 02-15-2010 - 8:06pm

Hi, Skat~


Everything you said?.....EXACTLY! It took me a couple months and a few sessions with a therapist and, oh yeah, my 37 years on the planet to get to the core.


This a wasn't about how much I loved my xap or how my h didn't meet my needs...it's all about me, baby! :o) And, really the t hasn't been easy, but OMG has it been an eye-opener and seriously helped with

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