Love on the Trampoline
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| Mon, 05-17-2004 - 1:11pm |
I have thought thru all of that and have reached this new thing to think;/worry about: 5) will my H go back to his single 33-year old OW? How will that make me feel? He felt very, very strongly for her--so i don't think she was just a passing thing. Then i think, will they marry? Have children? How will that affect me and my children?
So, yesterday, I asked him if we did divorce, would he go back to her. In typical Clinton-esque fashion, he really didn't answer the question. just sort of skirted around it--that hurt. I said (using my I statements, that the T is helping me with): Oh, how i wished you had said: No, Clarice, that is over and done with. But that is not what he said.
So, it turned into a big ugly argument, he was kicking sports equipement all over the yard--in front of the kids. I went to my game.
Later, last night, i apologized to him and said, "If we do divorce, you have every right to go back to OW. It just hurts, that's all."
We ended up (my initiation, as always) making love (a quickie) on the trampoline outside while the kids were still awake. I have no idea why i intiiated that. Life here, at this house, is certainly a rollerocaster, don't you agree? Many emotions over many hours. It's all very tough.
Clarice

First, thanks for your response to my 'mayday' post. Second, in response to your congnitive distortions post...and this one. Wow...lots of stuff here.
1. the c.distortion stuff....yeah, I used to do those a lot and had worked on that stuff years ago in therapy. I'm glad to see that I no longer do many of them anymore...when at one time I hit them ALL. (yup, dysfunctional family of origin, too).
2. I have the SAME fears that you spoke of, when contemplating divorcing.
3. About h's OW....there's a lot of questions here. Why did your h give up OW--did he necessarily want to save the marriage? I know that you are leaning more towards getting out. Did you ever speak to him about his sexual drive with OW (I know, I know REALLY painful!!! but I really think that since this is an area that is a MAJOR struggle for you, it could provide some insight. Like IF his sex drive WAS stronger with OW...has he reflected WHY? its HIS job to figure it out, NOT YOU. And your job NOT to personalize it). Did you ever think that you two are just NOT compatible....everything that you have written seems to imply that its an incompatibility thing....COULD both of you agree to a separation? or has that been discussed and dismissed---if so, why?
What he does AFTER the marriage, is HIS business. Yes, I'm sure there are some stingers. My fear, too, is that h would find some young, pretty, in shape 20 something year old---making me feel like crap. But then again...I truly want him to move on and to be happy--that benefits the kids.
4. Quickie's on the trampoline??? LMAO....you go, girl. As for wanting to be close and intimate with your h, is normal and healthy...even during tumultous times. It is a way of connecting, even if the verbal communication is NOT there. Quickies sometimes serve their purpose and ease some, uh, building tension. I know you guys have problems deeper than a quickie can solve---but as long as you both are still willing to do the naked two step, then perhaps that means something. Sex left my marriage last year and while I'm the initiator of that...GOD, DO I MISS IT (and BOY, have the cost of batteries sky rocketed in the past year! lol)
big hugs~
Master dharma
H swears up and down--in the face of God, the face of the therapist, everybody--that he and OW did not have sex. I really have a hard time believing this, as i read his very explicit emails to her. But what can i do? He is always ready to go if i initiate, he just can't initiate for whatever reason (which is what he is supposed to be working on in therapy--he doesn't initiate anything, sex-wise and beyond).
I know that he has every right to return to OW if we divorce. I am working thru that process, currently, as i stated. He only stopped seeing her and talking with her after i asked him to have NC with her. (yes, i feel like a real s*** about this, because he has never known about my xMM--but that is something i have to live with--the hypocrisy of that.
The problem with H and me, is we are overly compatable, primarly because he just says yes to everything. there has never, ever been a real "spark" there. I undstood, recently, through therapy, that i found him as a harbor from a very intense 3 year love affair i had with an older man while i was in college; and then we married, only, i realize now, because i wanted to have babies.
So, no sex at all? How come?
Clarice
Well, girl, I guess there must still be SOMETHING there if you can still tolerate a quickie on the trampoline with him (I'm thinking just logistically that had to be some amount of work for you both, unless it wasn't quite the athletic event I'm picturing!!! LOL). Me, I've never liked quickies of any sort. I don't know exactly why, except I'd rather run out to 7-eleven or other all night convenience store for batteries than have a quickie. For me, I guess the act is so much more emotional and spiritual than physical, and because of some of the nastier sex I've had in my life, these days I just want to be loved and appreciated during the act. If its all about the big O, I'd just as soon bust out the hand-held...
JMHO. Love, Mo.
Honey, I OWN stock in Duracell. LMAO.
If your h says he didn't have sex...then maybe he didn't. Its hard to say, and what more can you go on than that....many people often have cybersex and don't consider that sex. It sounds like he needs to work on some stuff surrounding his sexual stuff...but that's not easy to do and he must be WILLING to honestly admit that there may be a problem and then decide to make it better. Its hard stuff to deal with, and very difficult for men to discuss.
Yes, I know ALL about the hypocrisy too....we ALL go through that, don't we? Goes hand in hand with the scarlet letter on my chest (lol...trying to be sarcastic)
Why no sex for me? Honey, you got about 5 hours? LOL. Well, its fairly long, but probably not as long as the drama I create. In a nutshell--the past couple of years have been awful with my husband, and he has been the meanest, and somewhat cruel, person to be around. No matter how HIGH my sex drive is/was, the meaner he was, the more turned off I became by him. I also met exMM during this time and found myself channeling my fantasies towards him. While sex was fairly good, physically, between my h and I---it wasn't fulfilling---but I could never put my finger on it. That, and after 15 years, it gets somewhat mundane....though we are both fairly into experimenting and variety (well, except for large farm animals. LMAO, I kid, I kid).
But the clincher was this: in the past couple of years I would wake up to my h groping me or even worse, actually having sex with me. Literally I was asleep and wake up during the process. I never really stopped it because, well, by that point it was half done...and sometimes I was into it. But it left me feeling all weird, like "what the F is that all about". When I discussed it with my h, he would claim he would have NO recollection of it whatsoever, and he seemed VERY sincere about this, and I believed him. Sometimes if I woke up, I would just push him away. And I really didn't think much more about it, but the combo of my h being mean and the night wakings prompted me to sleep downstairs beginning in July '03. I tried to return to the bedroom 2x's and 2x's my h woke me up and told me to "get the f out of HIS bed". The second time, I left with no intention of ever returning.
Then late last fall, I was reading on the domestic abuse board (I post there too) a post from a woman with a similar situation. One of the board leaders, and several others, called this "rape". And I was stunned. They said this was not an unfamiliar behavior for abusive men. This other poster's spouse also claimed to have no recollection about this. I asked a close friend if her h ever did this to her...she said "no! absolutely not!" I asked her if this was "rape" and she said "yes". I've asked my dv counselor and my support group....they also say "yes, its rape".
Me? I don't know what to think sometimes. Its very shattering to one's pscyhe to think that one's spouse is raping them. I honestly believed him when he said he was sleeping. I finally posted this question on the dv board...about 10 women responded saying their h's did the SAME thing. So, is it possible that abusive men have a sleeping disorder that allow them to have sex in their sleep without memory, kind of like sleep walking.....or is that just an excuse? My h goes to Church every week, without fail. He's in the past told me that I don't believe in God or that because of my delving into Eastern philosophies that "I'm in deep s&^t with God"...but yet, is he capable of this?
A few weeks ago, I asked him point blank, in one of the FEW times we have discussed this, if he has EVER had sex with his daughters. I know this seems like a bizarre question (and no I don't believe he's ever touched our dd's)...but the reason why I asked is that he claimed to have NO CONTROL over himself. He was mortified by the question and asked me if I was crazy. I said "no, but if you claim to have NO CONTROL over yourself at night and randomly have sex with the body next to you....aren't you afraid that one time it might be with one of the girls" (the little ones frequently jump into bed in the middle of the night).
Again, he was aghast at my questioning and said "God, NO!" I said "well what was different about me, then"...and he said "well, you're my wife". I just turned and walked away.
What am I to think about this? I dunno. If anyone who may be reading this has any thoughts, I'm more than open to them. Maybe its rape...maybe its not. I really just don't care anymore.
All I know, is the one and only time I was fully intimate with exMM....while it wasn't physicallly satisfying, it was mindblowing in a sense that left me feeling connected to everything around me---it was beautiful experience for me (but, alas, not so much for exMM). He also touched me in such a gentle beautiful way....in a way that h NEVER did. Holding hands with this man was a near orgasmic experience. (but enough about that before I start thinking about it!!!)
So...that's that.
dharma
And while xMM never had sex, well, i guess, that leaves me with no emotional, spiritual, connectedness kind of sex, since, since. . . well, um. . .1985!
Oh brother!
Clarice
it sounds like rape to me. i am so sorry dharma. i am sorry i brought this up. i understand what holding hands was like with your xMM. once, last year, when i was baking a birthday cake for my son, xMM came over here and we literally stood and held each other's hands (like the marriage pose) and stared in each other's eyes long enough to turn the frosting into cottage cheese. It was amazing, it was a connection. it was sexual and beautiful and kind and loving all roled up into one.
as far as my H goes, somewhere down the line, he became very interested in anal sex--and that part of my anatomy, in general. you have to understand: when you don't make love to your h for 1 year or two and then when you do, that's all he wants to do, well it kind of leaves you wondering, right (this is the most un-intimate position in sex there can be, right?) For 10 years i have wondered if he was gay. i am still not sure.
talk about a lack of intimacy.
please hang in there. please tell me why you are staying in this marriage.
Clarice
Do not apologize for asking the question....how were you to know? Perhaps in hindsight, I should have taken this off the boards because I know many people find it disturbing. Quite frankly, so do I.
But to answer your question: why do I stay---short answer or long? lol. The short answer is simple and complex at the same time, its called the cycle of abuse. And to those of you outside the cycle, its very difficult to understand. Hell, I graduated with my Master's with a 3.93 GPA...and I still can't break free, so it really doesn't matter how smart you are. Abusive men figure a way to get into your head and mess it up so you don't which end is up--and because he's never physically hit me, its much worse, because no one sees the damage inflicted. And trust me, I hide it well. In fact, when I tell people close to me know, even members of my family, have a hard time believing it. Of course, I never told them about the sex thing....
My dv counselor says that for women who have sustained more than 10 yrs in this type of marriage...its much harder for them to get out because there are more years to be 'brainwashed'. My intelligence, while its helpful at times, is also my hinderance because I "think" to much, analyze too much. Instead of doing, I'm thinking.
But I'm taking one step at a time towards my freedom....my master's; my job...eventually I'll get out. I truly feel that God placed exMM into my life to show me how REAL men treat women. I just don't know why he chose a time when we were both unavailable to each other---but maybe it was the shove I needed. I shouldn't be so bold to question God, but I do.
I don't leave because I'm scared sh%^less....but of what, I do not know. Some of it is for the same reasons that many of us here stay in marriages (you included)---the kids, the money, the comfort, the 'unknowns'. I have the additional weight of getting my head back on straight and bringing myself back into balance.
dharma
Hi dharma...
I'm touched by your post and thank you for sharing your story with me. I'm so sorry for all that you and your children have lived through and hope that continue to grow in strength and peace that was evident in your post.
I have been working with a dv counselor since 9/03...and yes, I do know its HIS choice (though I tried to make EVERY excuse in the book....lol...luckily my counselor confronted me on every one of those) to treat and act this way. To be quite honest, I do NOT believe he is abusing our dd's.....I just threw out that question to 'trap' him into admitting that it WAS HIS choice, because he kept insisting he was ASLEEP. He knew that I knew that I "had" him with that question, something that I believe I knew all along, but to this day STILL have a very hard time accepting. I am trying hard to get out...but its hard when he is so inside my head...but I guess I'm preaching to the choir on that one.
Thanks so much for your encouraging words.
dharma