** Making a BANQUET out of CRUMBS..?**
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| Wed, 12-15-2004 - 6:07pm |
""The relationship can never go anywhere. You're making a banquet out of crumbs." ...
I need help answering some questions that I have based on this article I read.
For me, it was almost like an instant cure... an epiphany, if you will. It honestly doesn't make a lot of sense. I went from HEARTBREAK to NOTHING in a few hours flat!! - I don't get it! So, I have some questions for you amazing ladies (and you guys - the few that are man enough to post around here)... because, once again, I feel like I'm losing my mind.
(I haven't been around in a couple weeks - so those of you who are wondering who I am, and would like some bkgrnd info on me... go to the VERY BOTTOM of this post. I've copied a some of one of my posts from a couple weeks ago - from the day I decided to end my A)
(And TRUE - your last message "When the Bough Breaks, helped me answer so much of this already - Thanks! And Good Luck!)
The Emotional Cost of Infidelity
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/health/march99/infid033099.htm
***QUOTE 1***
****"It's a drug," says Shafer of Oklahoma. "It's a fix. You can't wait until the next time. It's very addicting. You feel you can't live without it."
Florida researcher Layton-Tholl focuses specifically on the allure of secret relationships. People who keep them report far greater arousal, passion and obsession than with nonsecret relationships."****
****"It's a common plot, a cliche scenario played out in movies, novels and government hallways. Fumbled kisses. Groping in Nissan Altimas. Steamy Comfort Inns. Shafer, the social worker, met her lover in a hotel room for three years. "I'm in my mid forties, and we would make out in the car like we were 16," she says. "There's a certain high to that."****
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QUESTION #1 -- (FIRST, could you please tell me if you've ended your A or if you're struggling w/ ending it now)
Do you think that sometimes the "high" is mistaken for what a lot of us think is 'feelings we've never felt for anyone before' or the 'intense chemistry' that we talk about???
Do you think under normal circumstances, it would just fade away like a normal R does? Except the fire is fueled by the odd circumstances and sneaking around?
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***QUOTE 2***
****"How interesting that they reach such romantic heights only out of context from their daily lives. But is it love?
In "After the Affair," Abrahms Spring draws distinctions between romantic love and mature love. "Romantic love is an intense but unwarranted attachment that you, the unfaithful partner, may feel toward your lover," she explains. You think the love must be real because the chemistry between you is so explosive. You are willing to sacrifice so much for this passion."****
****"On the cognitive side, a perceptual distortion takes place. "You idealize the other person, assigning him or her more positive attributes than any one person could actually possess," continues Abrahms Spring. "At the same time, you're likely to paint your partner in equally distorted, but negative terms, as a foil for your lover."****
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QUESTION #2 Do you think it's possible to really, truly and deeply love someone who is not a part of your everyday, real-world life?
And if so, would you say it's the same kind of love you could have with them under normal circumstances?
Or do you think your love for them is partially based on an idealized version of them? (I'm not making assumptions about anything here - I'm honestly curious)
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***QUOTE 3***
***At that point you are engaged in an intense sexual and emotional liaison. Sometimes extramarital affairs lead to new marriages. Other times, they are roller-coaster relationships that last only months, or a few years. And then there are affairs that become lifelong relationships"****
***But sooner or later, lovers in an extramarital affair have to confront the dynamic nature of their relationship and move on to a deeper bond. Or sever the connection.****
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QUESTION #3 Do you feel like you had the "roller-coaster" relationship? Or do you feel like you've attained that "deeper bond" and moved into a "lifelong" R?
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QUESTION #4 Would you have picked this person out of a crowd if you were both single and perfectly happy? Or do you feel that they had something to offer you that you were looking for - some quality you were lacking in your own M or life?
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QUESTION #5 Would you choose - knowing what you know now - to have never met this person, or to have met them, and gone through the struggle and pain that I'm sure brought us all to this board in the first place...?
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THANKS EVERYONE!
and here's a bit about me and my decision to end my A...
----I wrote this in a "Thank You" note for the strength I gained from all of you amazing people that post to this board.----
******I've come to realize who the most important person in all of this is - and it's myself. And that realization has given me the strength to say "goodbye" and really mean it.
When you look at it that way, it's harder to rationalize staying in something that makes you feel more bad than good. I had a hard time ending it earlier b/c I thought I might be making a mistake - that perhaps we were meant to be together. I know that's what keeps a lot of us in these situations for years - we feel like that person is meant to be a part of our lives no matter what it takes. For some of you, that may be true - but for me, it can't be. Even if he and I are meant to be together - it's not now, and it's not like this. I can't continue to treat myself this way. I would NEVER let anyone else make me feel this bad - so the same thing goes for me. Without my self-respect, I have nothing to offer anyone else. Not even him - if our timing is ever better one day.
So, thanks again to all of you amazing women that have posted in here. I'm feeling a million times stronger because of you. *********
Edited 12/15/2004 6:31 pm ET ET by carolina_girl26
Edited 12/15/2004 6:33 pm ET ET by carolina_girl26

Carolina
"QUESTION #1 -- (FIRST, could you please tell me if you've ended your A or if you're struggling w/ ending it now)
Do you think that sometimes the "high" is mistaken for what a lot of us think is 'feelings we've never felt for anyone before' or the 'intense chemistry' that we talk about???
Do you think under normal circumstances, it would just fade away like a normal R does? Except the fire is fueled by the odd circumstances and sneaking around?"
I believe the answer to both questions is YES, that could be a big part of the reasons affair based relationships tend to fail in huge numbers shortly after going public.
Quote 2
The question could be is it really love or is it just big time INFATUATION that gets blown out of proportion by all the sneaking around secracy and anticipation of the get togethers, I for one do not believe in most cases that it is genuine healthy love but a lot of other confusing but pleasent feeling stuff in involveing addictive natural brain chemicals.
Q#3 RCR
Q#4 NO
Q#5 Hard question , I would like to learn what I learned but not that way, there was a real lasting price tag attached to the lessons I learned, I would not be prepared to pay it again.
Free
Hi...I don't know whose oppinions you're looking for...but I wanted to answer.
First...my xmm ended the affair...upon deciding to stay married for the kids.
Q1...I think that an affair is more intense than a normal open relationship. A lot more feelings are packed into a shorter time spent together. Maybe it's not real...but it sure as hell feels real. I would have fallen for him in the real world. But certainly...someone could mistake the feelings. In the real world...it would have taken me longer to realize that I was in love. I would have had to deal with kids that may or may not like me, an ex-wife that I may or may not have been able to handle, his dirty laundry and habits that may have irked me. Who knows?
Q2...Looking at the relationship now...I can obviously see that maybe we didn't even know each other. We were both on our best behavior when together (well..not best.) There's no time for fighting...you accept things that you normally would not accept in order to sustain the relationship. I could've loved him under normal circumstances...but I guess I would not have searched out a guy with kids.
Q3...I thought I had found that life long relationship. I REALLY thought so because of the things I was willing to change in my life for it.
Q4...I don't pick people out of crowds...I fall for people that share my sense of humor. I guess that's something that was lacking in my life. Someone to connect with...someone who knew all about me (good and bad) and accepted me anyway. Something funny though...I never thought I wanted a family...never thought a guy would prove himself to me as someone that I wanted to share that with. I see how this guy is so loving and protective of his kids and my biological clock goes off! Nevermind that he doesn't make a good husband to who he's with. I overlooked that part...I guess thinking it would be different with me.
Q5...Uggh...If I hadn't met him...I feel like I would have kept going through life...and just putting up with the wrong people. By no means is a married man the RIGHT choice...but the feelings that he evoked in me will never be forgotten. I know that I will never again accept mediocrity in a relationship. I'm not even talking about what I accepted with him...but the non-feelings that I accepted from relationships before him. From now on...I raise the bar. I needed to experience what I did with him...I cannot regret it no matter how much it hurts now that it's over.
Wow...I guess I'll be ok without him someday
Free-
Thanks for your answers. Since I've been around this board, I've observed so much intensity:
intense love...hate...pain...confusion... and I could relate to almost all of it, and in the beginning, I felt like that made my situation more normal... and less special. That helped me to realize that nothing I felt about him was worth the personal pain I'd caused myself by staying in it. I was more important.
So, I started NC, and amazingly enough, I felt better almost immediately... and then I wondered how I could have been SO heartbroken, and then felt nothing but a dull pain in the background almost 24 hrs later. I wonder if seeing everyone else's intensity only magnified my own. I wonder if we MAKE ourselves feel this way - I wonder if that's possible.
So, that's a big reason this article caught my attention to begin with.
I feel like I blew everything way out of proportion. I've even seen him (work stuff) a couple times, and I'm still attracted to him, but it's NOTHING like it was before! I really just wish I'd never crossed that line. It's fine to have a crush on someone from a distance. What I did wasn't fine.
I enjoyed your answers a lot. It kind of makes you wonder if your brain shuts off when you come in contact w/ all those "addictive chemicals" you spoke of. I wonder if somewhere in the back of our minds, we know that it's not as big as we think it is - and yet to admit that our betrayal was for something more shallow would make us feel unjustified in our actions.
I'm not denying that over time, some people truly fall in love. I'm just thinking that sometimes we create something in order to be able to face ourselves. 'Love' is a way better reason for betrayal than 'chemistry'...
Still, I have no regrets. I say I'd like to go back and change things, but if I had, I wouldn't be where I'm at now. I feel like it was a huge wake-up call for me. I was sleepwalking through life, and this made me reevaluate some important personal issues.
Thanks for your answers!
I may answer them myself in a little while... :)
-C
Crissy
I can relate to so much of what you said... I think I even said "it sure as hell feels real" only a week or two ago.
Even with my mysterious recovery, I honestly felt all those things too. I thought he was 'the one'. I thought I'd never felt that way about anyone before, and I was scared I never would again. That's how I ended up here in the first place. That "making a banquet out of crumbs" thing... that's described me to a tee. I would have done anything to see him, and I'd take whatever he could give me.
Then it just hit me one day... I wanted to shake myself and ask - "what the hell is wrong with you?!" That's not what I think 'love' is - at all! To me, love isn't feeling so strongly about someone that you lose your sense of self, or sacrifice things you believe in. Love compliments your life - it doesn't complete it.
Then I was really angry with myself for acting like that - even in a relationship that was wrong to begin with. It was hard for me to get to where I'm at now. Now I believe that I truly was just selfish and shallow - and I don't even think that's such a terrible thing. People ARE selfish and shallow... Granted, my actions crossed a HUGE line, but I can't take it back, and I wouldn't if I could. I needed something from him - even if it was to just realize I didn't need ANYTHING I thought I did. (It makes sense, in a strange way...) I'm a better person now because of it - and I'm more capable of healthy love now with the people who are REAL in my life.
It sounds like you have the right mindset - I think you'll come out of this a stronger person. It's harder when you're not the one to end things. The biggest thing most of us have to regain is a sense of strenth and control over things - and we have to change our perspective on a lot of things. You can regain yours by realizing that even if it was his decision in the beginning - it can still be yours now. You're truly allowed to decide that on your own no matter what. You can just say "I don't want to feel this way anymore" - and all of a sudden, you're in control again. Once you get there, you won't say things like "I wish I'd never met him" and "I needed to experience what I did with him"... all in the same paragraph! (I'm just picking on you, sweetie - it's normal to be torn. I still am sometimes.)
Hopefully you won't have too much regret. Think of what you gained, and still have to gain - not what you lost.
Thanks so much for sharing your answers with me.
I'm honestly at the point where I can't decide if I'm insane, normal - or if I'm just simply a B*#^H !! ... maybe all of them.
Take Care!
-C
You're welcome for the answers...thanks for asking the questions. All I knew to ask myself before is "what's wrong with me?" and "am I crazy?" It felt like I would never feel right again about anything.
Yesterday...I decided to make it a "no crying" day. I wore make-up again to reinforce my plan. I even wore a flower in my hair(weird?...yes) And I told myself that I would NOT be moping around work. The poor people I work with....what they had to see me like must have freaked them out. I decided to give myself back to them. When I did that- I really helped myself. I'm going to be ME again...only smarter :) I'm hoping, hoping, hoping that I'm really ready to do this. I'm scared when I think about relapsing. I could cry just thinking about that- but I'm not gonna do it.
Gotta go find my flower for the day.
Thanks again,
Crissy
QUESTION #1 -- (FIRST, could you please tell me if you've ended your A or if you're struggling w/ ending it now)
Do you think that sometimes the "high" is mistaken for what a lot of us think is 'feelings we've never felt for anyone before' or the 'intense chemistry' that we talk about??? Do you think under normal circumstances, it would just fade away like a normal R does? Except the fire is fueled by the odd circumstances and sneaking around?
Good questions – I ask myself these all the time. Maybe it’s time I respond to them. The first answer is Both – I ended the A and I’m struggling big time. OW works in the same building as me and I keep running into her (including today and boy does that suck). Her company is moving though, thank god. Anyway, is the high mistaken? Perhaps. But what I do know is NEVER loved anyone like this. I believe an R with OW would survive, it would have it’s difficulties, but what R doesn’t. I told her if she ever wants an above-board R, she knows where to find me.
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QUESTION #2 Do you think it's possible to really, truly and deeply love someone who is not a part of your everyday, real-world life? And if so, would you say it's the same kind of love you could have with them under normal circumstances? Or do you think your love for them is partially based on an idealized version of them? (I'm not making assumptions about anything here - I'm honestly curious)
She was part of my everyday world. I saw her multiple times a day. Did we live together? No, but I got to know her enough anyway. I saw things I didn’t like, but I’m sure she saw things with me too. I’m a pretty realistic person – my occupation requires me to think that way so I always tried to look at it for what it was.
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QUESTION #3 Do you feel like you had the "roller-coaster" relationship? Or do you feel like you've attained that "deeper bond" and moved into a "lifelong" R?
Rollercoaster – Can I get off of this f’in thing before it kills me?????
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QUESTION #4 Would you have picked this person out of a crowd if you were both single and perfectly happy? Or do you feel that they had something to offer you that you were looking for - some quality you were lacking in your own M or life?
I would say yes, I would have picked her out of a crowd – although I was in it for sex at first. I started it, but she pulled me in. After a short time I realized she was providing all that my M of 15 years was not. I would like to think that most women would do that for me though and that I had the misfortune of marrying someone who just plain doesn’t like men.
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QUESTION #5 Would you choose - knowing what you know now - to have never met this person, or to have met them, and gone through the struggle and pain that I'm sure brought us all to this board in the first place...?
The pain has been tough. I still tell myself that I have no regrets, but some days I wonder – WTF was I doing letting someone run my life like this? I still haven’t taken myself back, but this just ended so to speak so I’m relatively green.
Thanks for your interest
Don’t you hate when that happens? I usu type my response on a word processor first for that very reason, that, plus my spelling is horrendous. Anyway, if you have the time, I would be interested in hearing what you have to say.
Thanks