Our Role in the A vs. the XMM's Role

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Our Role in the A vs. the XMM's Role
12
Sat, 10-30-2004 - 3:48pm
As I have read posts on this board for the last month or so, I have started to curious about some issues relating to the differences between the behavior of men versus women during the end of an A. I spent 4-1/ 2 years in my A (not counting the times we broke up – one break lasted almost a year). So it’s fair to say that we became very close. Before the A, we were good friends, and during the A, we became almost best friends. During this final break-up of our A, we have maintained positive communications.

Many times people mention certain negative qualities about their XMM in their posts. I have heard things like:

1. he is a narcissist, only concerned about himself

2. he is an A**HOL* -- can’t stand to think about him

3. he wants me, then he doesn’t – what is going on with him?

4. he has it made �� he has so much control over me – all he has to do is call

5. first he emails me, then nothing for days – what is his problem?

6. men who cheat are all alike

But what about our part in this? In my experience, the A was a two-way street.

1. He wasn’t any more self-centered than I.

2. If he was waffling about continuing our relationship, I was certainly doing it more often.

3. I had just as much control over him – if I called, he was right there for me. I tended to have him wrapped around my little finger – I actually had a bit more control.

4. Is it easier for us to end our As if we think of the XMM as an A**HOL*??? We didn’t think he was so bad until he stopped contacting us, which is what we ultimately wanted anyway. Are we trying to convince ourselves that the guy was no good in order to help ourselves recover?

5. We cheated too – are all women who cheat alike? I think the answer to this one is no, not exactly. The stories on this board have different twists and turns, even thought they have the same underlying theme (we were in a relationship that was wrong).

My theory is that, while all As have similarities, I believe that there are also differences. Some of us have good endings, some have bad ones. But don’t we all play an equal role in our As? Isn’t it 50/50? Why is the guy the bad one who is leaving us feeling miserable? He has feelings too, and he is probably in the same emotional boat as the rest of us. Breaking up is hard no matter who you are.

I am asking these questions because I seriously want to know. I am not intending to make light of anyone’s individual situation, so please don’t read anything more into this post than what is written here. I just want to hear from you about how you view the role of the man and the woman—I think hearing your responses will help me a great deal.

Thanks!

Meg

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-28-2003
Sat, 10-30-2004 - 4:07pm
Meg

It seems to me that your conclusions are based on the premise that men and women operate in the same way in there emotions and physiology.

I don't agree with it and from what I have both read and experienced I have to disagree.

I think "MOST" affair relationships are not balanced or equal in power and control, the women in most cases clearly are the ones putting most of the effort and emotional commitment in to it.

In my job I manage men and women daily and you have to deal with them in a different manor to get the most out of them, men and women are different.

Most women seem to have a unique to blind themselves to the nature of the men in there lives and the true nature of there relationships until something drives them to it, most men seem more willing to see the truth and act on it accordingly.

The narcissist is found much more commonly among the male of the human species, in a open compatitive would without civilized rules it may have given them an advantage but it is destructive in a civilization based on the family unit.

Jmho

Free

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Sat, 10-30-2004 - 9:09pm
hi there Mefree--

I think you are right for the most part--and I'll be really interested to hear what others say also.

I am fairly certain I am in the minority on this one. I tend to behave more like a guy (God I hope that doesn't make me a narcissist...) in my communication style and my way of looking at things emotionally. My XMM has admitted to me that he thinks on an emotional level in a more feminine manner than most men (we had some good laughs over that). So my situation is a bit different.

So everyone...your opinions??

Meg

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-24-2004
Sat, 10-30-2004 - 9:43pm
My opinion is that the only thing 50/50 in my A was the fact that MM & I were both equally responsible for cheating on our respective spouses and enabling each other to do so. That's where equality most definitely ended for me. I do not deny that MM has feelings in general, however I also know that he is not crying over the loss of our A or the pain he helped cause my H or the pain his wife would be in if she knew about us. My MM is a true narcissist. While it pains me to admit this, maybe it would be good if we all opened our eyes a little. I am not saying that all MMs do this, just relating my own experience. My MM has been married for 3 years. He has cheated on his wife multiple times - he was very honest with me about this - I was neither special or unique to him, just another piece of a??. I on the other hand have been married for 2 years - and he is/was very special and unique to me. I honestly do not believe that I will ever have another A again with another man. I wanted to develop a relationship with him - that's what freaked him out b/c I started acting relationshipy. For me it wasn't just sexual - for him that was the whole point. So, no I do not think that MM share the same role in the A as we do - or at least that I did.

JMO - Blue-Eyed

Visitor (not verified)
anonymous user
Sat, 10-30-2004 - 10:25pm
Hiya Meg,

I agree with much of what you say. In retrospect, love-goggles destroyed forever, and with a bit of both time & clarity under my belt, I fully realise NOW that I was every bit as big an arsehole as was exOM

Generally speaking, it appears some/many of us tend to utilise what my therapist referred to as an "anger shield" in order to distance ourselves from our affair partners. At this stage I was acutely aware of just how selfish & horrible exOM was being and I clung to it as a method of preventing myself from running back to him.

Think about magnets for a moment, Meg. Before & during our affair exOM & I were attracting magnets; the pull towards each other was strong. On ending our affair, my magnet switched polarity and effectively pushed away or repelled exOM's magnet.

Just to complicate matters a little, I'd have moments where my polarity would switch back suddenly and I'd find I was attracting/attractive to exOM's magnet before settling back into the new reversed polarity - lol. I didn't act on these (at least not until some 5mos later but that's another story altogether), however, the pull was still there in full force from time to time before settling more comfortably in the reversed polarity zone.

Even at this pushing away/repelling magnet stage I was not prepared to "see" that I was equally responsible for the affair. I took on a victim stance like nobody's business, and this helped me keep clear from further entanglements with exOM. I still chose to "see" in terms of what had been done to me rather than seeing what I'd, in fact, enabled, encouraged and permitted.

It was only as the reversed polarity became a more natural and familiar way of being that it actually dawned on me that I'd not been a victim, I'd actually been a co-conspirator every single step of the way. It's my firm belief that real acceptance begins with this realisation.

So, if exOM had been an arsehole, I'd been just as big an arsehole.

If exOM had been an immature, selfish, irresponsible, greedy git, then I'd also been one, too.

If exOM had control, it was because I'd given it to him and gawd knows I'd been every BIT as manipulative in seeking to control exOM.

Literally, the unhealthy aspects of ourselves had been feeding on the unhealthy aspects in each other. Towards the end of our nearly 4yrs, it was an all out feeding-frenzy. What it wasn't was pretty. Nor was it rewarding, or positive, or supportive, or any of the things that a real, lasting love is supposed to be.

I'm aware it's easy to throw labels around, and I include narcissist amongst these. Free & I respectfully differ on this as on a fair few other things. I believe it's far more a matter of individuals willingly allowing themselves to be treated in a manner which is less than honest and is sometimes downright disrespectful which means others are happy to oblige them rather than having any illusions of millions of undiagnosed narcissists running around preying on poor, naive womenfolk.

If a woman requires respect, honesty and allows herself to be second to no other, then men have no option but to treat them accordingly with respect, with honesty and by putting their partner first. And if not, then he can take a snapshot of her butt for a keepsake since that's the only side he'll get to glimpse again since she'll be walking away from him at speed...

Not everyone needs this anger shield, Meg (though I did). Some, like Omaha and apparently like you, are able to reach acceptance stage and realise their own part in their own downfall without having to lean on an anger-shield. Not everyone ties up their self-esteem on the basis of whether or not some man wants to be with them (I did). Some wrap themselves up so tightly in their pain that they refuse pointblank to move to an anger or an acceptance stage (I did this briefly, too).

The bottom line to all this regardless of how we arrive there is:- We are the captains of our own ships. We will be treated exactly how we permit others to treat us. We are responsible for our own actions & decisions. The buck stops with us - If we do not permit an affair to take place, no affair CAN take place.

Just some of my thoughts on an interesting topic.

Wishing you strength & peace,

Posie

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-09-2004
Sat, 10-30-2004 - 10:33pm
(Coming out of lurkdom - twice in one night!)

Meg, I had to respond to your comments about anger. Anger played a big role in my survival - it was the liferaft I held onto to keep NC going. Of COURSE I knew the responsibility for the mess was 50/50, but I used anger to help myself keep away from him and stay away. Yes, I was even angry that he didn't contact me even though I initiated NC and begged him to leave me alone! I never called him names, that isn't my style. But I thought and wrote (privately) terrible things about him - because I wasn't ready to face the million terrible things I felt about MYSELF. Lucky for me, it worked. I was able in time to focus on and work on myself, to contain the anger, to use it, and (most importantly) to let it go. THAT'S the hard one. Now that I'm down the road, in a peaceful place again, I can acknowledge to myself that he was and will always be the sweet, gentle, spiritual man I fell in love with. He just made a mistake. We both did.

So I think (and I could be wrong) that some of these angry posts reflect the pain and confusion the posters are feeling. We all know the roller coaster of emotions ending an affair puts us on. I think many of the posters really do/did feel love, they're just dealing with it in this way. As I said, the key is letting the anger go, not letting it take you over. One of my favorite lines is from a great book about forgiveness, The Secret Life of Bees:

"I heard the bitter tone in my voice, and it came to me how I could lock that tone into my voice forever. From now on, every time I thought of my mother, I could, so easy, slip off into a cold place where meanness took over."

And I know EXACTLY what she means.

Here's wishing us all a warm place, where meanness is in the past.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-05-2004
Sat, 10-30-2004 - 10:34pm
Not sure if this really is related, but my relationship was not 50/50 either. I was/am married and my xOM was/is single. So I was risking alot more right off the bat. We both admitted that we were having 'new' feelings we had never before experienced. In the beginning though, he was the one pursuing me. He was always waiting for my call or email. He was the one constantly telling me how much he loved me and how he couldn't wit to see me. It wasn't until he 'realized' things between us would never work out and started to pull away from me, that I became the needy, dependent one (something he told me he hated).

After being broken up for maybe a month, xOM had made a wonderful recovery (he told me I didn't know how hard it was on him) and decided he no longer loved me or had feelings for me, but just wanted us to be able to have 'casual sex'. Narcissism at it's finest!!

I'm sure he still thinks about me, whether it is to call me at 2am for a booty call, or a drunkin' chat, I'll never really know. But he did mention to me that he looked at an apartment recently closer to his new job that had the same name as my maiden name, "I just don't think I could live there" he said. Hmmmmm. I don't think I'll ever know if he was in any 'true' pain over our relationship, and I certainly don't think he has shed the crocodile tears I have, or has had to join a support group (;-p), but I'd like to think that there has been some hurting on his part too.

Diva

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-26-2004
Sat, 10-30-2004 - 10:49pm
Hey Meg,

Your post really made me think. It is only fair to look at things from every perspective.

All involved have blood on their hands in one way or another.

I can only talk about my situation since I am pretty new at the A thing and the breaking off the A thing.

Me and my XMM are still engrossed in the who is going to have the last word dance. It is extremely helpful for me, personally, to feel negative towards him. It makes him less appealing which helps the healing (I made a rhyme!). If I get all soft and nostalic about what a great guy he is (was, whatever) then I want to contact him and there goes the whole cycle all over again.

There are so many other dynamics going on that it is so hard to compare how people act. For example, is one person married? Both people? I am not married so he definately had more at stake then I did. He had much more stress regarding the whole thing then I did. BUT, and I apologize if I am going to Pizz anyone off here, and I am SURE I will hear about it (right Free?) I feel that he was seriously a flawed person for being able to go home to his wife and kids and go along with his life like nothing happened. I have never met her or spoken to her. If I had I am not sure I could have been with him, but, then again, who knows? All I can deal with is what happened. He lied and lied and snuck around. I didn't. The only lying and sneaking I did was to protect him. The only lying and sneaking HE did was to protect HIM (and in a sick way, if you think about it, his wife)

Anyway, I have no one to answer to. He was with 2 people who he professed to care about (I wasn't).

Now, he and I are both guilty of trying to suck the other back in. Does that make me a narcissist? I guess maybe. I love attention. Did I hurt people by what I did? I ignored my kids and indirectly hurt his wife for my own selfish motives, so I guess that is narcissistic, too. But the person I hurt the most was myself.

To sum it all up, in an A everyone is a bad guy. Now I have read some posts, like Sadgirl, where she had to get an abortion and he didn't seem very supportive at ALL. THAT guy is reprehensible, IMO.

Of course some men blatently use women because they are an easy target, but all in all I just think people, both parties, are looking for something in there lives they aren't getting and they find comfort in this person who they aren't supposed to be with (which makes it exciting) and it usually turns out that SOMEBODY has to take their ball and go home. And the person left standing there gets hurt becasue they didn't want it to end and if it did THEY wanted to be the strong one. It's like the one who has more self love is the winner and the other is a weak and pathetic loser.

It just seems most of the people who get emotionally hurt are women, since, as was earlier pointed out, men and women are wired differently, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. A man might be going through legitimate pain but doesn't express it (he wasn't raised that way, a lot of men aren't) and so he is labeled an a$$hole, etc.

Is my XMM an A$$hole? Right now yes. He might not have been one conciously and would be hurt if he thought I called him that, but I told him how painful this is for me and he basically poo poos my reaction to him and our relationship and wants to "be friends" and wants me to just get over myself like I am some drama queen who is just being silly and overreacting to something stupid. My feelings were always deeper since he has a W and felt he couldn't give himself emotionally all the way (didn't stop him from giving himself physically all the way though, which is a HUGE difference between women and men! He had NO PROBLEM with that part and seperating his feelings).

He was my best friend, confidant, daily entertainment, boy toy, DJ, work buddy and my self esteem builder. I was all of those things to him (except I was his girl toy ;)) It was great to have someone who actually LIKED my body! How hard is THAT for most women to comprehend, since a lot of us are SO self critical? Letting that go and leaving it to yourself to love your own body w/o that outside interest is one of the hardest parts of leaving the A! And he chose to be with me at times when he should be with his W? That makes me "special", eh? But when he told me he loved me but not in a "leave my wife and my home" sort of way...well, that is painful, but it didn;t stop him from wanting to continue on and on with me after he made that decision. Does that make him an a$$hole? YES...Did that make me an idiot for letting him continue on and on and keep on playing our sick little mind games? Yes to that too.

I guess I'm upset because he didn't protect me, as his friend, from him. Does that make sense? Twisted, but true.

Hope I helped even a little, but I probably just ended up rambling. Oh well...sorry :)

Need2

Visitor (not verified)
anonymous user
Sat, 10-30-2004 - 11:16pm


The OM pursued me relentlessly. Initially, I was clearly uncomfortable but yet vulnerable. While I was dealing with the guilt of infidelity, I was justifying the affair with the assumption that I was going to end it, to be with the OM (he was married as well). The OM was excellent in reeling me with lines: "we are soulmates" "never met anyone like you"...Sent me "I love you" text/e-mail messages.

The first two months, I have broken up with the OM three times.....was bent out of shape, once he sounded as though he was going to cry when I called him to "get back together." Finally by the fifth break-up, he got fed up. Gave me the silent treatment...the beginning of his passive-aggressive behavior. He started to call, e-mail me less, demanded that I leave my husband (or at least make it look like "I am doing something"). He even went as far refusing to meet with me (him cancelling at the last minute) until I proved I was serious about ending my marriage...Once I went on ski trip with my husband, the OM refused to speak with me for a week. After I told him I would be filing, he immediately became all sweet, re-instated the e-mail frequency, calling, etc..Apparently, the OM filed for a divorce...accused me of leading him on.

In all, I know I hurt OM royally; but he also put my heart through the shredder, making demands on me, emotionally holding me hostage. He knew I loved him, took advantage of this. The last two months of the affair was spiralling quickly, him being sarcastic, blowing me off...I grew resentful of him. The thing that BOTHERED me most is he was never up front...never told me to "take a hike..." because I would have. Instead, he was eager to hold on to me (and we were not sleeping together..so available "booty" was not the reason) but yet, felt compelled to punish me (by not being as attentive- not picking up cell phone all the time like he used to...but would always call me back within fifteen minutes, keep me on the phone for ever..impossible for me to get him off).

By the end, I knew I had to cut him off. He was not going to do it...I believe in a strange way, he was addicted to the relationship (as well as myself)...could not turn me down. I know at the end, he always wondered whether I would call him back...I know I had just as much power over him as he did over me. Overall, we were treating each other horribly, playing mind games with one another, all emotionally debilitating.

Truth of the matter is I am furious at/with him for not being honest with me...all could have been avoided. Instead, he was too weak to let me go...made me "pay" for it (each heartbreak) because I made him feel vulnerable (he is a Mr. Jock). I am so glad to get out of that cycle...deep down, believe he is a manipulative, selfish chap...spineless in failing to tell me the truth...so what if he had to risk losing me? Lost me by lying all the time at the end...lost all respect for him.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Sun, 10-31-2004 - 9:53am
Hey there everyone—

I was especially interested to hear about the concept of the anger shield that was mentioned by Posie and Mtnsweet. I have had moments of anger toward my XMM over issues not related to our A, and it was during those times that I had an easier time separating from the A and from the desire to make contact. I think there is real strength in that anger shield, if it’s a temporary thing.

Need2, I agree that guys like Sadgirl’s XMM are much worse than others. It would be much easier to get up that anger shield with the guys that start acting like jerks at the end. I don’t know if it’s a blessing or a curse for me that my XMM and I ended things on good terms. While I am 99.9% certain that I will not go back to an A with XMM or anyone else ever again, I think I may be in more danger than others of doing so, since he didn’t do anything stinky at the end.

On the flip side, when the XMM acts like a jerk and is hurtful, then I imagine it’s much more difficult for the woman to get over the A. From what I’ve learned by reading posts on this board, when XOM acts that way, it makes the woman want closure so much more—she wonders how the guy with whom she shared such “great” times could be so mean? I think that treatment from XMM would be hard to accept, but it would then be easier to bring on the anger shield. Part of us wants the closure and the happy feeling at the end, but part wants to reach the point where we have the anger shield too, I’ll bet.

I agree with MeFree that women and men are wired differently, but each individual woman and each individual man can have tendencies to emotional states unlike their gender averages. That is the case in my situation – I have felt sadness at the end of the A, but I know XMM has felt as much sadness or more than I have. And Diva is right when she says that it’s also different when one of the APs is single.

Serial adulterers are a whole different story. Those guys who readily admit they have had other affairs and will have more definitely have some serious issues. And how men or women react at the end of the A (or while we are in the A for that matter) depends a lot on what other kinds of existing psychological problems the person is already dealing with. If someone is a mental train wreck before the A, they aren’t probably going to behave in a mature way during or after the A.

Finally, addiction is a very real part of these relationships – Beenthere alluded to her XMM being addicted – I know my XMM was and probably still is (he is the more likely person to break contact for stupid reasons so far). At the end when we had our “talk,” I asked my XMM where he was on the spectrum of addiction to the affair – totally being in love and wanting to run away with the AP versus totally being addicted to the thrill of the A and not caring who he was screwing. He gave his reply before I gave him mine – and our answers were both around 50/50. How interesting.

Meg

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-10-2004
Sun, 10-31-2004 - 11:23am
Meg,

I've been reading this board for the last 11 months, trying to make sense of what I allowed to happen with my life and I realized when I read your post how much it affected my thinking. My A of nearly 3 years ended the first week of January and I can honestly say that it wasn't my doing, although at the time I'm not sure OM was thinking of it ending either. It was really a misunderstanding that ultimately ended the A and I suppose that's what made it even more traumatic, because you see I didn't want it to end and all of a sudden it just happened.

A bit of background for explaination: both OM and I had been through some serious health issues. I had major surgery and he had been in a serious car accident which resulted in major brain surgery and through it all we had tried to maintain contact. This was a long distance relationship but we kept in touch daily by e-mail or phone and the support and love we shared was truly amazing. We too had broken up and came back together on 3 other occassions; I was always the initiater, but he always wanted it too, so three different times we ended and began it again. The times we met in person were unforgetable; I've never experienced anything like that and probably never will again.

It was at this time last year when health issues became the wedge in the relationship, as far as communication was involved, and made it impossible to keep in touch, but we managed to still send letters when we could. I decided to send OM a card for the New Year

which stated we would share a new beginning, thinking that since we had managed the health issue successfully, we could share a new beginning and he took it as meaning we would end it. I was devistated and found him online and told him so...he tried to explain what he thought and I was so angry, I thought here he goes again, pulling away, and I accused him of more self-serving rhetoric and then told him all I ever was to him was a good f**k. The words still hurt but I didn't care at the time and he protested, he said NEVER, but I didn't want to talk anymore and ended the conversation thinking that we would continue later. I ultimately sent an e-mail apologizing, but he never responded again. I thought I would wait, and although I knew it was best to end it, that the A would have to end one day, I wanted to explain my last words. About 6 months later I decided to send him an e-mail, because that last time we spoke he had said he wanted to hear from me, and I wanted to apologize, but his e-mail address was non existent, he was definitely gone forever, and although I have his work and home phone numbers, I told myself that this was what he had wanted all the time...his way out and there was no way I would try to lure him back again...

I tried to think negative things about him, but he was always kind, fun, witty, and I can't blame him for the A. I was as responsible and through it all I actually became a better person. That may sound strange, but he gave me back my self esteem. I've tried to become a better wife, more caring about my H and he's been more responsive. I've put in the time for my H that I had given to OM, but I still think of him everyday. It's been 11 months of NC but he's still in my heart and I often wonder if that will ever change. The hurt and pain is still alive and although I try to forget OM, I haven't been able to...Nov 2, election day, is his birthday, so even though I want to put it out of my mind, I'm reminded of the date continuously. Every year I would leave a message on his voice mail, but not this year...my heart won't let me...when do the tears end and the smiles return again?

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