Random Questions/Thoughts

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-31-2004
Random Questions/Thoughts
13
Mon, 09-06-2004 - 2:52pm
I'm wondering how many of you agree or disagree with the old saying "Tis better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all." I agreed with it 25 years ago when I ended my relationship with my first love, a MM. But now that I'm finding myself in another A with a MM, and only the second time I've loved someone (I never loved my exH), I think I'd rather go through life never having loved, because then I'd never have this horrible pain and sadness I'm going through. I've had NC for 9 days. This is probably my 13th attempt to end it (we've been in A for almost 3 years). I think/hope/pray I'll stick with it this time.

Incredible coincidence - Did any of you see Dr. Phil this morning??? It was all about affairs, from different people's perspectives. It was so hard to watch. There was a married couple where the H had an A, but he won't really say he'll never do it again. Dr. Phil says he has to stop cheating and lying. But I don't think Dr. Phil has any idea what kind of feelings some of us have in A's. He didn't seem to realize that it's not just about sex. There's emotions and love too. Then there was a 41 year old single woman, who's only had relationships with MM. She's been in SEVEN relationships over 25 years! She says she doesn't even know how to meet a single guy, how to have a normal relationship, what a normal relationship is. Did any of you see it?

One more question: Do any of you feel bad when people write here nasty things about their MM? Like, 'now I see him for the liar he is', etc. I have a very hard time with this. I know what my MM did was wrong. But it was wrong of me too. I still love him and think he is a wonderful, kind, person, who never meant to be the 'bad guy', just as all of us never meant to be the 'mistress.' Nevertheless, I know I must stop this A and I will try to have NC - forever? - or until he becomes single (I know, unrealistic fantasy).

I hope I get responses from some of you, because my other posts didn't really, and I don't know why.


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iVillage Member
Registered: 08-28-2004
Mon, 09-06-2004 - 4:00pm
hey juliet,

I am not in the process of ending my affair now but it has happened three times before with my MM and let me tell you the pain I was in sure did make me wonder if it was worth it. I am now separated from H, he left soon after Mother's Day for reasons not related to A. H does not know about it. I fell in love with MM over a year ago and we are now trying to figure out if it will work in the real world or not. I pray every day that it does but it's so hard. When he went home the last time I thought I would rather be dead than feel what I was feeling. I just said to myself, if it is meant to be then it will be. He is now separated from his W but nothing is certain for either of us. I still don't know if I would answer yes to your question. I want to say it is better to have loved but sometimes I don't know.

Some of the posts do kind of rub me the wrong way too. I don't see my MM in a bad light and I don't think I ever could. We did this together and he has shown me things I thought were only alive in movies and fairytales. I can't say I regret it, no matter what the outcome. Who knows, maybe I will be back here seeking comfort soon. It is not in my hands anymore. I have left it up to fate. I only pray for strength and understanding now. I have also read some nasty things about OW and in my case I never meant for this to happen this way. I would never call his W and hurt her further. I would and have always respected MM when he has decided to go back home to try to work it out with his W. I can't see being hurtful for no reason at all. I thibk I have done enough damage without adding insult to injury.

I missed Dr. Phil, when I went to turn it on to catch what I could, tennis was on. That stinks. What did he have to say?
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-19-2004
Mon, 09-06-2004 - 4:42pm
Wow Brooklyn you touched on a few things that I've been dealing with!

First off - I was JUST thinking about the "it's better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all" and the thing that runs through my head there is the movie "Message in a bottle" and in that case I feel like it was DEFINITELY better to have loved and lost... but in this A situation I have to say NO - I'd rather NOT have loved and lost... because in my opinion it wasn't lost... it just can't be... and the hurt from that can't really mend completely because you'll ALWAYS wonder what could have been and if given a different situation would it have been - and have been as wonderful? So... the conclusion I came to while driving is I wish I would have never known the love between exMM and me... although I wouldn't trade my HAPPY moments for anything now... I do think never having experienced any of it I'd never have known what I was missing! :p LOL

Second off - I did see Dr. Phil this morning but I literally can NOT stand listening to people who have never been in A shoes talk! I use to talk like A's were the devil (and I'm not so sure they aren't LOL) but... it was all so cut and dry for me back then... it is NOT black and white on the inside! Albeit, you either decide to NEVER be involved in one and stand by that resolve with all that you are - just as you resolve to never kill someone - or you allow yourself to go to this place, whether you thought you would or not!? Maybe it is that simple - but I SURE didn't expect to be in this place 3 years ago! So... what was my point - LOL - oh, Dr. Phil is an okay guy but sometimes he needs to keep his trap shut! ROTFL

Third - I couldn't agree with you more! I actually responded to a post recently that someone was bagging on their exMM and making it out like he was the manipulator but yet the OW couldn't seem to walk away - and ofcourse I hurt her with my post but I do NOT think just because we decide we are ready to walk away we start pointing our finger at the MM/MW or OM/OW and make them out to the be problem - nor do I like when they start pointing out negatives about that person and using those as reasons to not be with them. If you were involved with that person - they most have been redeeming enough to get involved with so - don't go baling on that just cause you can't deal with the REAL reasons you got involved, stayed involved and can't deal with walking away.

and FINALLY LOL I, too, feel like some of my posts get very little response (hence my post addressing that) seems like alot of people come here to post their cries for help and don't give their fellow drowning peers a glance! Albeit - when you are in the throws of despire you don't feel like reading or giving advice to others... but I wish some of then would check back on a good day and "pay it forward" ROTFL

It's all good though - and this was a good post! :)

Lots of thought provoking stuff we can take from these As huh? :p

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-17-2004
Mon, 09-06-2004 - 6:07pm
Hi Brooklyn,

HUGS. I was only in a short term A (2 months....I got scared and got out before I fell in love with the man) and it hurts. I can't imagine how hard it would be to have been in a long term.

I'm on the West coast, so Dr. Phil isn't on yet, but you know, before my A, I was one of those harsh people, completely against the A, unwilling to listen. I had a BF who'd cheated on me... alot. But now that I have been in one...I understand. It doesn't make it right, but I do understand better.

As for the "it's better to have loved and lost..." saying--I still believe in it. I didn't get to the point where I'd fallen in love with MM, and I know I shouldn't have done it, but I have to be honest and say that I'm not sorry I met him. I am sorry that we didn't meet under different circumstances. Most of our encounters (it's an emotional A, email, chat and phone) tended to revolve around sex (limited time...we'd talk in spurts, whenever we could snatch a few moments together) but he was the type of guy I just would've loved to have sat down and had a conversation with. And I'm sorry that I'll never get to experience that. If that even answers the question. lol

As for hating the MM....I say it all depends on how deal with things and how your MM really was. I mean, some people really may have figured out that their MM were jerks that were just using them, lying to them. And sometimes it's just easier to hate someone. I've tried, honestly. Tried to tell myself he was lying, using me, but it doesn't work, because something deep down inside just keeps insisting that he really was a good, decent person. I think he was just scared about the whole situation, the same way I was.

Honey, do yourself a favor and don't let yourself believe in "what if" or "maybe" (talking about him becoming single one day). You're only making it harder for yourself. If you really want to get over this, make yourself let go of that. Although I have to admit, I'm not exactly the perfect person to be telling you that. Because I'm currently struggling with something similar, where even though I begged MM not to contact me anymore, I still run to my email every morning and hold my breath as I open it, hoping to see one from him.

Hang in there, hon. Day by day, little by little, it will get easier.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-07-2004
Mon, 09-06-2004 - 9:14pm
Juliet,

Thank you for the great post. My A was long term. We are both married. Even though the ending of the A has crushed my soul, I do not regret loving him. We shared many years of complete and satisfying love. Either of us meant for anything to happen, we just fell in love. The last year of our A was very difficult, he moved 1000 miles away. We tried the LDR but that was extremely hard. I tried the NC but he always calls after a week or so. We both know its over and its harder for him to talk about it but we do not regret what we had. I never expected this person to come into my life and change everything my heart beleived in. A year has passed since we ended the A and I still think of him every morning and every night. As much as this all hurts it does not change what I feel in my heart. So I do beleive it better to have loved.

I didn't see Dr. Phil today, but you are right sometimes he can be very harsh on people. No one knows what is in another persons heart. I am married for a long time and my H is a wonderful man and I will remain with him for the rest of my life. But my XMM will always have my heart and nothing will change that. We never wanted to hurt anyone we just loved one another. The sad part is he is so lonley where he is and I know his marriage is good but his wife is not a well women, so inside I know one day he will find someone else to take my place, maybe not as complete as what we had but he will.

I read the posts here everyday, and I know many of the women here have moved on and find reasons why they should have never had the affair but I know there is more of us out there that don't regret what we had and deal with the pain of not having the person you love without beeing bitter.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-13-2003
Mon, 09-06-2004 - 10:23pm
'Tis better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all"..........Well I think I agree with the saying, however I never would have guessed that I would had felt so much pain and hurt and sadness from loving some one as much as I love/loved XMM. I believe people are brought into our life for one reason or another. I also believe that the time I spent with him, It opened my eyes to things about myself and my life and my marriage that I either didn't want to see at first or never did see at all. I think about him everyday. But I know deep down, a relationship with him based and built on an affair is not what I want. I don't know it this makes any sense, it's just what I felt like i needed to say.

As far as Dr. Phil's show...I didn't see it but I will check out his website for show highlights.

To answer your last question. No I didn't feel bad whenever I or anyone else for that matter wrote nasty things about my XMM. I came here for advice and expected to hear the truth and I feel like that's just what I got. Everything I wrote, advice I was given, statements made, all fit his character. He's a player. I fell in love with all that. I broke off the affair and have been NC for a long time now and am on the road to recovery and healing and moving on with life as I knew it before he entered my life.

Thanks for listening!!

TCOM

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Tue, 09-07-2004 - 10:54am
<<<>>>>

ITA, only HOW can you lose something that was NEVER yours in the first place? Hey ladies, this is an endings board. To come here and wallow in a poetic lala land as to how I will never love like this again, how it is better to have loved and lost, etc....GMAB!! You had/are having a fantasy land adventure that COULD end in trauma, tragedy, broken families, etc. WAKE UP! This man was never yours. HE has a wife! And if you are a MW having an affair, IMO, that is even worse! You should know better!

Share yours stories with us WHEN you need a shoulder to lean on, not an ear to be bent with "How do I love thee, let me count the ways......" Yak!!!!

CMG

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-07-2004
Tue, 09-07-2004 - 11:31am
CMG

I am aware this is an ending board and everyone on here has had an A and is either trying to end it or has ended it. We all feel the pain of it. Whether or not that person still loves the XMM should have no bearing on the posts here. They are still hurting. And maybe one day they will wake up and see things totally different. Maybe they will be bitter, or maybe they will say what the heck was I thinking. But for right now this is the way they are feeling and hurting. So if they ask is it better to have loved, I'm sure we will all have a different response depending where we are in the healing process.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Tue, 09-07-2004 - 12:28pm

I'd say bettter to have loved and lost rather than to not love at all.


Were it not for having loved my first true love, I'd have missed out on what I have today. Through my 17 years of affairs I kept searching for the love that I had that first time. My marriage suffered and although I did love my ex-wife, it became clearer and clearer as years went on that I could not stay in the marriage....


I missed the Dr. Phil show. I agree with you there is a lot more to affairs, including emotional needs than what Dr. Phil and the general public tend to or want to acknowledge.


I believe your affairs will end completely when you decide for yourself that you are worth a full-time 24/7 commitment and availability and that you won't settle for anything less than that from your relationships. Until then the NC times will remain painful and seemingly insurmountable.


YOU are worth a full time commitment. And you're willing to give a full time commitment in return, right?


So please, remember that as you let go of your xMM. No, he's not an awful man. Many of the affair participants on this board are't awful. THey're all liars, though, because they have to lie in order to participate in the affair. WHatever they are missing in their marriages won't be found in an affair. Only momentary relief and a refusal to face the failures within the marriage honestly and openly.


You certainly can dream about the possibility of your xMM leaving his marriage. I did so myself. Yet the statistics on such an occurence are 2 percent. That means that 98% of affair participants stay in their marriages and do not leave the marriage for the affair partner........


Work on yourself and the reasons you used to justify participating in a relationship with someone less than 100% available to you. Challenge those reasons and refuse to settle for less than that.


cl-nre

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-07-2004
Wed, 09-08-2004 - 4:21am
I am sorry that I started it. I love him and I'm in love with him, but I now that I know what this is all about I would have preferred not to have fallen in love with him. The pain and bitterness by far outweigh the pleasure and happiness. I am beyond the romance and excitement of it by now, nearly a year after it started, but still hooked on the relationship. I am cynical and hurt knowing that what we have now, so constrained and limited, is all we will ever have. It will never be more, different or better. The issues and problems I have with this relationship will never be resolved. As long as it continues, I will always have feelings of jealousy, envy and resentment towards his wife, even though she is a good person and a good wife. I will always be upset if he doesn't call me or when he is too busy to give me anything more than a five minute phone call a day. I'll always be thinking about him and missing him when I could be living my life in a more productive manner. I will always be disappointed when we can't see each other. I will always feel fearful and anxious about getting caught and hurting other people. I will always hate myself for devoting so much time and emotional energy to this. I will always be sad and wistful about the things we can never have or do together. I don't think the benefits of being in an affair counteract all these negative feelings. The reality for me is that he will never leave his wife. I know that for a certainty. I will probably never leave my husband. The only way to stop the pain in the long run is to end it. And when I end it, which will be soon, I don't want to sit around and romanticize it and be maudlin about it. I need to maintain perfect clarity about how painful this was so that I don't slip back into it with him and I don't do this again with someone else.

I loved him as a friend before we became infatuated with one another and crossed over the line and I would do anything to go back in time and stop myself from even getting close to that line again. I was somewhat content in my marriage and it caused me to be discontented. I was in control of my emotions, and now I am out of control and have devoted much too much time and energy to thinking about him and us and his wife and my husband...I hate who I am being about this whole thing. And I mourn the loss of that easy going friendship we once had. I feel that I cannot in good conscience say that it is better to have loved and lost if that would encourage one person to embark upon this path. And this is just my own heartache I've been talking about. Imagine if we got caught and then there was even more pain among more people to contend with.

I have my moments where I get irritated and cynical about my MM. I'm not his first priority and sometimes he's brutally honest with me, and that hurts. But he is a decent person with many wonderful qualities and I would never blame him or criticize him. He's not a player and he didn't use me. I know he was infatuated with me and it was too difficult for him to resist those feelings, especially since I was throwing myself at him. He's always been straight with me, and has never led me to believe that this is leading somewhere that it won't. So, I'm not going to rag on him, but I believe that it does help to end it to see him clearly for who he is, including all his faults and flaws.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-31-2004
Wed, 09-08-2004 - 7:26am
Maristow,

I'm so so sorry for you - and for me - and for all of us. I wish I had the guts/anger/indifference to send your post to my MM. You so clearly explained the pain. I think they really just don't undertand. My MM says, "I know we'll be together someday, but it's just not on the timetable you want" (because he has little kids). Right now he's very upset, depressed, angry, confused that I ended it 10 days ago with a voicemail saying I must have NC with him.

He/our MM don't know about these boards, and all of you - my support gtoup. He's never heard of NC, and he doesn't know why I'm doing this to him/us, when we love each other so much. Although my heart wants to sit down with him and explain it to him, I know I have to stay away and have NC.

Maristow, I totally agree with what you said: "I am cynical and hurt knowing that what we have now, so constrained and limited, is all we will ever have. It will never be more, different or better. The issues and problems I have with this relationship will never be resolved." I've cried this to him many times. I used to say sadly "No good can come of this" even though we're so in love. We don't understand why we were tested/tempted (by G-d? fate?) this way. Why we met our soulmate at a time we could not have each other. We know we are to blame. We just don't know why G-d played this 'dirty trick' on us. (I know, I know, some of you are going to yell at me and say some things to me like - you knew what you were getting into, etc. But please, I just don't want to hear it right now.)

Thanks to all of you for being my support.

brooklynjuliet

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