Some long overdue straight forwardness

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Some long overdue straight forwardness
10
Fri, 05-20-2005 - 12:06pm

Hello all.


I posted a response a few minutes ago to lealavendar and apsbr05 on the "nonjudgemental or making me worse" thread.


I'm also posting the comments here in a fresh thread because I think it is important to have those thoughts upfront and in a starting position on a thread.


I welcome your replies and comments.


Here's the post:


Apsbr and Lea:


1. My posts tend to be very straightforward and to the point. I have not found candy-coating or kid gloves to be very effective in ending affair addictions. It is a lifestyle that has many parallels with substance addictions. And quitting the addiction of the affair is difficult as you both know from personal experience. Having acknowledged that point, the cold reality remains that it is up to ourselves to pick up our own pieces and create within ourselves the determination to end our destructive lifestyles. Affairs have ripple effects upon all of our family and friends. Who do we trust with the truth? Who do we continue to lie to? What if our kids found us out before our spouse? I've actually faced all 3 of these questions. Not pretty, particularly the kid one. So, the "baby steps" and "back and forth" hand holding doesn't always do anything more than prolong the pain of ending a relationship that shouldn't have ever taken place. Instead, the coddling tends to extend the affairs and the hand-wringing over "why" the affair partner (usually man since this is a woman majority board) is doing this or that. Somehow the logic gets twisted that you

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 05-20-2005 - 12:12pm
But what YOU have lived through is just that. YOUR situation, your history not mine. I am not a serial cheater. I will NEVER do that again, and I'm not saying I'm better because I've done it once and am done. I'm saying my experience is different as is, every person's here. We are here to help one another but not force our experience onto everyone else as if to say "You MUST have these feelings and you MUST have had an affair because of this" Simple. Life does not work that way. We do not all fit YOUR mold.
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-09-2003
Fri, 05-20-2005 - 12:17pm
In reading your post, you mentioned how mostly women come to these boards for support, as a man who has been the MM, did you ever suffer from a loss if a A, did you miss the OW. I just find it so hard to accept that I am going through so much lain and life just goes on as normal for him. He actually called and left me a message yesterday saying how happy he is. OF COURSE I did not call him back. But it hurt to hear the happiness in his voice. Why is it so easy for men??


Edited 5/20/2005 12:24 pm ET ET by fooled2much
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-24-2005
Fri, 05-20-2005 - 12:30pm

cl,

I do value your opinion and have gained much strength from things you have written. I would classify my marriage as very good, although there are things I need to work on too.

I don't see the main issue here as "harsh words we don't like to hear." I don't think anyone is commenting on the tone. I think the issue is the blaming of it on marriage. I think Lefeen's post summed it up nicely http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlending&msg=15996.12 that most A's come from within the WS - not the M. That doesn't mean that the M isn't a contributing factor - but the void is within us.

Your case was a little different since it does sound like there was something lacking in your M that allowed you to look elsewhere and now you're with the last OW and happy. First, I should comment that your situation is fairly unique in the outcome. Second, I would have to say that this could also be classifed as something you could have looked within yourself to solve - not the M (i.e. ending it before starting A's).

I think Lefeen's post is good because it requires us to look within ourselves to solve the problem first. Any deflection of that responsibilty spells trouble. There are many marriages where the wife/husband is "perfect" and yet the WS still strays.

I'm in a rush and don't think I put this down clearly. I just want to let you know I VALUE your opinion but fault myself, not my M for any lack of need being met.

WIP

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 05-20-2005 - 12:31pm
I thank everyone here who have been wonderfully helpful. I do need to and will move on. I probably could stay and ignore if you were just a "poster" but you are a LEADER here. If the leader of this board is going to continue to tell people that something is wrong with a marraige for there to be an affair (when statistics, psychologists, some of us posters, and many articles show differently) I will not be here. I believe they've chosen the wrong person to be a leader on this board. No one needs sugar coating, no one is arguing about straight forward talk. But I do resent your generalizing something that is far too big to cover with a big net. It's wrong, it's hurtful to those here who know better--and maybe you need to look within yourself to figure out why you're so ready to generalize and throw every EMA participant into one big pool??? Not to mention you have outright invited people to post their picture on the net, under a very discreet and serious topic.
I do not find you the least bit "Leader like" here. And I will gladly pass my thoughts on to ivillage.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Fri, 05-20-2005 - 12:36pm

See my reply to your earlier post.


I'm glad you learned form your first affair that your answers weren't in the affair. Many don't.


My affairs are my experience and they do create the basis of my replies. Your affair was your own and supplies the basis of your responses.


You chose to be in an affair because something in your life wasn't working. Whether it was your marriage or your head or heart, something wasn't working or you never would have chosen to participate in the affair. THAT is a similarity and mold you and I have......


cl-nre




Edited 5/20/2005 5:24 pm ET ET by cl-noregretsever
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Fri, 05-20-2005 - 12:38pm

Keeping my reply brief, because I've posted it many times before:


Yes, I did miss the OWs. All of them. And grieved.


For me ending the affair was no easier than it is for any of you here on the board. I experienced the full angst you have had. I can't speak for any other man's experience. Mine were NOT easy.


cl-nre

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Fri, 05-20-2005 - 1:04pm

"discreet and serious topic"


Yep, affairs are just that. And there are some of us who are past the participation and living completely in the open.


Our marriages and their success or failure are the results of our efforts and our spouse's. That includes communication by talking directly to our spouses. When we choose to talk to our affair partner rather than our spouse about matters that can and should be discussed with our spouse, we begin to create discord and deceit within our marriage. I'm not talking about the trivial stuff here. I'm talking about the soul-baring heart to hearts that so many of us find easier to have with our affair partner than with our spouse. And that IS a problem of the marriage environment. because it creates triangulation of emotions and responses. Not to mention added stress from clandestine relationships.


You criticize me "generalizing something that is far to big to cover with a net". This board is a general board with focus on affairs and ending them. Each affair has its own facts and circumstances. Yet, there are similar patterns and underlying currents to most affairs. Notice, I say MOST affairs. Which lends itself to general statements and suggestions. I am not advocating or encouraging anyone here to stop seeing their therapist or keeping up the one on

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Fri, 05-20-2005 - 1:10pm

Thanks for your comments. Yes, it's from within ourselves that we make our choices. And our choices do affect our marriages and give us additional feedback for our choices from that point forward.


And for all the success of our marriages, we at times still choose to participate in affairs. Both my marriages had/have many successes within them. Yet in the first marraige I chose affairs as a solution to the missing parts of me and the marriage. In my second marraige that has not been the case. the choice comes form within me, yet the marraige reinforces my decision not to participate in affairs by feeding me what I need from a relationship.


That's my point about marriage and affairs. Our personal choices drive our marriages and resultant actions with additinal input and additional actions.


cl-nre

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-02-2004
Fri, 05-20-2005 - 1:17pm

~CL_NRE~

<<>>

Me too. Over and out ;) How do you post a picture? I've looked in board settings and can't figure it out. Email me please if this is something you don't want to go into detail on here.

BTW, I enjoy yours posts, both marital and individual POV's. If there's something I don't agree with, well...I just skip on to the next one. Still, I find something valuable in most everyone' post.

Thanks,

**Id**

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Fri, 05-20-2005 - 3:31pm

I am not sure what level of subscription allows someone to change their icon. I use the level of service provided by I-village to cl's which means I still get all the pop-ups for the benefit of deep archive access.


Anyway, I updated my profile (that section where you answer the questions about yourself and display facts you want out in cyberspace) and there is a tab on mine that says"change image". I clicked on that, attached a .jpg image that fit (after several previews) and you now see my smiling face instead of the butterfly I used to use.


As you mentioned, at all times we all have the ability to agree to disagree and skip over a post. I read yours often and appreciate the thoughtfulness of your suggestions.....


cl-nre


P.S. I noticed a short time ago that there is a "Spell Check" feature when I type my 2 cents. Anyone else using the feature too? I haven't tried the "Attach a file" feature yet.