Ultimatum or NC what works?

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-07-2004
Ultimatum or NC what works?
18
Sat, 04-17-2004 - 7:44am
Ok, simple question. Does an ultimatum work? 30 days with C to give her the papers( he has them already) or NC. Or am I really just playing into the MM game still. I can't seem to walk away! Help!

Pages

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-11-2004
Sat, 04-17-2004 - 10:14am
Dear luvr, I'm involved now for almost 2 yrs with my MM and although I was extremely certain that I was left with no choice but to give him an ultimadum, and did so, what I didn't realize at the time was that I was no way near ready to follow through if what I had expected from that ultimadum wasn't met. And I see now how much of a big mistake that was. My advise to you is not to give any ultimadum or threaten NC unless your ready to follow through if he came not come through with what you want. Trust me some things are so easily said, but actually doing are two completely different things. Wishing you lots of luck and support in your decision. Debbie
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-07-2004
Sat, 04-17-2004 - 1:40pm
Debbie, thank you for responding. I am confused. Did you give the ultimatum and could not follow through? Did you go back? B/c I tried the NC twice and went back. I could not stay away. After a couple of years of being in love with him, seperating with my h, I feel he should do the same now. I don't want to go back to secrets. I just want to be with the man I love. If that is not in the cards, I should just be able to move on, right? Not go through this torture. I think that he is afraid of her. She is verbally abusive and actually cruel to him. She will use the child against him. I am so lost.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-11-2004
Sat, 04-17-2004 - 3:10pm
Well actually I gave him an ultimadum twice and both times couldn't seem to follow through, even though I swore to myself the second time around that I would. I know exactly what your going through as I to am so in love with this man and know that he loves me, and like your MM his wife is tryung to control him with threats of suicide when he mentions divorce. He is torn between that guilt if she were to try that and not wanting to her his daughter, but also not wanting to lose me. I know that it will probably need for me to walk away to get him to finally leave, but what scares me to death is what happens if after holding on and waiting for so long our relationship sustains just too much damage that it can't be fixed, all due to his indecisivness? As I know that after not being able to follow through two times now, he's most definitely going to call my bluff the next time, so I know before I decide to give him any other ultimadum I better make sure I'm ready to walk, without any anticipations from having to do so.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-07-2004
Sat, 04-17-2004 - 4:48pm
OMG it made me sick to read your story. It is the same situation all the way down to the suicide crap. She has told him she hates him for 20 years,he is finally happy with me and tells her he is going to move out and get papers. While he was there she pulls this stunt and he comes running back to help her and takes her to T where the T tells them to S also. He says too much damage. So, he backs down. One week later he agrees to go on the trip. Does not tell me until two days before they go. He just called a minute ago and I wasn't even nice to him. The whole thing makes me ill. I don't know what to do. If I were to give an ultimatum, I would not even know what it would be. NC never works, he calls and calls. He will not put up with that. He thinks it is wrong of me to NC knowing the way we feel about each other. He says I need to give him time. Yet, he just went on a trip with W and son. Does not look like that is happening. So hurt by all of this. I wish good things for you and thanks for responding.
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-05-2003
Sat, 04-17-2004 - 10:26pm
I think it's ultimatum and then follow-through with NC. For me, it was just the end and then I insisted on No-contact. I think no contact really is the only way to go to end an abusive or unhealthy relationship. By definition, an affair, where one party (or both) is married, is an unhealthy relationship.

It's your choice whether or not to talk with him. He's a bully if he insists when you say no. Do you really want to spend your life with a bully? If he cares for you and respects you, and you say, end your marriage if you want to be with me or be without me, and he can't come through, then he should respect you enough to leave you alone.

If you just want to threaten him in order to bring him around, then you are playing a sick rollercoaster game if you really aren't willing to end it if he doesn't come through. If the truth is, you want what you deserve a WHOLE, legitimate, healthy relationship, you should stop now and say -- look if you want me in your life, great -- take the steps that need to be taken and call me about 6 mos. after it's all done.

At least 6 mos. because the first year after a divorce is just insanity, trying to understand yourself and what happened and how to live your life as a single person again, much less think about another relationship. If this guy loves you and wants a life with you, that's nothing to ask. If he isn't willing to work for you, he's not worth it.

PLUS, if you move on with your life, while he straightens his out, you get a chance to separate yourself from HIS trauma/drama and sort out your own feelings and find your own happiness within yourself. THEN if he comes through, you've healed your own stuff and made your own life and you STILL want him and he you, then you're really ready for a real, healthy relationship.

And no guilt if he ends his marriage and you end up NOT wanting him. His marriage was a mess on its own without you. It has to be his choice to end it for himself, to make the most of his own life, not for you.

Good luck!!! My A ended, my choice, over a year ago. I can tell you that it's the best thing I ever did. My life is about a million times better now.



iVillage Member
Registered: 04-01-2003
Sun, 04-18-2004 - 1:05am
Ladies...

Listen to us and then consider the men. Ultimatum or NC? First, in my not so humble opinion, these men are incredibly weak. They can't make a decision in the first place. They can't decide on love or security and they can't seem to get it together in a relationship that has both. What the heck is an ultimatum going to do? I just think it's another way to try to control someone else's behavior - and that rarely works. Also, I don't know about everyone else, but I don't want a guy that I have to coerce into being with me. I tried the wining and threatening until I was blue in the face...never worked. A guy is either going to make a change in his life or he's not. Unfortunately, no bullying on our part is going to make these guys mentally healthy. I kept waiting for my MM to step up to the plate and be a man -one way or the other - choose her or me...but just choose. He couldn't. Why didn't he? Because he didn't have to. He had both of us and he wasn't going to give up love and security on his own.

Given that reasoning, I think that ultimatums are pointless... with one exception. The only exception is if *YOU* need to hear yourself say, "I'm sick of this second-class situation and I'm not going to take it anymore." If you are giving a MM an ultimatum as a means of basically giving yourself the ultimatum, then I say go for it. But, you have to realize what that ultimatum really is. It is saying that I deserve better and I'm not going to take this crap any longer... it is sticking up for yourself. I think that if you truly believe your ultimatum, then walking away when it isn't followed will be the healthy and self-respecting thing to do. If you can't walk away, you don't truly believe what you are telling MM or yourself. Putting your foot down in an ultimatum is setting a boundary for yourself so that you can be healthy. I think that most of the time we use ultimatums as threats and manipulative measures. Those tactics never seem to work. As for NC... I think NC should be seen as a self-preservation method, not an "I'll show him" method.

Turn the focus back on yourself and ask, "ultimatum or NC? What works?" Make sure you ask the entire question... Which one works for me to get out of an unhealthy situation alive and intact. Maybe the answer is one, both or neither for you. But, get the focus away from MM and back inside you... you can never have an answer for what is going to work to make another human being do what you want them to do. You can never write history the way you want it to go. You can only write your own history. I have spent many years 'keeping the faith'. I needed to have faith in myself - not MM. I wasted alot of hot air on my ultimatums. In the end, they meant nothing but the fact that I was setting myself up yet again in another manipulative attempt. When you've truly had enough, you will give up and walk away. You can only bang your head against a wall so many times before you realize that the wall isn't moving no matter how hard you bang at it. It sucks, but that's reality. JMHO.

Bird

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-07-2004
Sun, 04-18-2004 - 8:15am
You are right!!!! It would be manipulation (the ultimatum) and why would I want to keep him if I had spend all that energy to do that. Why would he want me? Isn't he really manipulating me by keeping me the secret? I will discuss with him NC again. It will hurt, but, I guess it will be win/win either way right? If he can't get off the fence, then I win and I would be able to move on or he does get off the fence and we are able to work things out. I have never been pushy or unrealistic. I do not beleive that we are going to run off and get married and live happily ever after. He has an evil W,a child, I have a SH and children too, we live in a small town. I know that it will be rough. I think he is worth it. All I want is for him to live on his own. So we can explore what we think we have!! He has never done that. I have always allowed him his time and space to get it together. He has made some progress. Not alot though. This trip he went on really did me in. I felt very manipulated myself. He just pretends it did not happen. I can't seem to let that go. I think that I will tell him again, I no longer want to be the A. I love him and wish him the best, but I need to be first. Until that happens, NC seems to really be the most logical course of action.

Thanks everyone.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Sun, 04-18-2004 - 3:16pm

"Ultimatums" don't work. they just prolong the dance of avoidance.


You're worth having

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-07-2004
Sun, 04-18-2004 - 5:46pm
Thank you so much for being honest. Your post actually made me cry. I needed it. I don't really believe in ultimatums either. I have told him its me or C-YA. He is almost like a little boy. He calls a million times a day when I NC. He can't handle it. He is so unhappy at home and really we both have only each other. His problem is fear. He is afraid to get the ball rolling. I know this because he went to the lawyers to get the S papers. That was two months ago. He never gave them to her b/c she threatened to kill herself. She also uses the child against him. If you knew what she did for a living you would be scared.. I was. The passive agressive marriage they have continues day after day and I put up with it. Then he agreed to take their child on a vacation after this happened. Which is why I am here. I want a life.

You are right, I am worth it and I deserve to be in a whole relationship. I do know this. I preached this till I was blue. The thing is he knows it too. No, I am not desperate at all. I am very attractive and I have no problem getting attention. It bothers him that his friends find me attractive. We are the exact opposite. He married a frump and he has become one too. But, that does not matter to me. I am truly in love with him. I have felt feelings with him that I did not have with my H of 20 years. I just want to be able to present this right. Your insight has been so helpful. I am so glad you are happy now. Let me know if you have any more wisdom.. :O)
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Sun, 04-18-2004 - 6:20pm

First of all, it was not my intention to make you cry.


Never has been, never will be, so my apology for creating such a strong reaction.


You asked for additional "wisdom". I'm not sure it's that exulted, merely what I experienced within my life and my suggestions on your life choices that are similar to what I lived through.


Here goes:


"He can't handle it. He is so unhappy at home and really we both have only each other. His problem is fear. He is afraid to get the ball rolling. I know this because he went to the lawyers to get the S papers. That was two months ago. He never gave them to her b/c she threatened to kill herself. She also uses the child against him. If you knew what she did for a living you would be scared.. I was."


cl-nre: YES, he CAN handle it. He already is. He is choosing to stay at his home rather than scooping up daughter and moving out with daughter and leaving wife on the pity-pot. She threatend to kill herself? Yeah. OK. Sure. How many times has she played that card? I'll bet quite a few because she knows he'll collapse like a house of cards. Which is exactly what she intends for him to do. So if MM REALLY wants to walk, he needs to walk. And let the stbxw stand there and deal with herself. No more melodramatics. No more baloney. Call her bluff. And while it may sound callous, if it turns out not to be a bluff, too bad. It was HER CHOICE to act in the manner she has acted that has contributed to her share of the end of her marriage. And if she decides to end her life, well, boo-hoo. Her choice. Every choice has consequences, even the irrational dumb ones like suicide. I have NO empathy for victims controlling their spouses with passive agressive behavior. My ex-w would have won several Academy Awards for her perfomances that I chose to believe and thus delayed leaving. Even the suicide route. I have yet to meet any mother who REALLY wants a relationship with her children that even swallowed one pill let alone a handful.

Pages