Wanted to share this morning.

Avatar for guardedticker
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wanted to share this morning.
11
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 10:04am
I have a male friend of mine who called me last night for the first time in ages! I found out that he has been involved with a MW who has been married for over 30 years and has recently separated. They have been in an affair for roughly a year and a half. Get this! She took it upon herself to get into his personal effects and found some old pics and memories from his past relationships and then presented it to him suggesting he was not being faithful to her! This woman is still married! In talking with him, I found he believes they have such a wonderful foundation for a future together because of their chemistry! My God, what was he thinking? Does her character mean nothing to him? Is he so desperate for love that he can't see how jealous and insecure this person is? He and I have always been platonic in our friendship and because she found a pic of me, she thinks we absolutely must have slept together. I swear, the older I get the less I feel that PEOPLE in general have absolutely NO IDEA of what it takes to find real love and a wonderful real relationship. Whyis it that people put so much emphasis on chemistry and not let themselves see the REAL person they are involved with? Blinded by love, is that it? I think that's a sorry excuse, although I've ignored red flags before in some of my past relationships.

So just a few words out there to the ladies who are still toying with a MM/OM and that is to allow yourself to take a step back and REALLY SEE the character of the person you've gotten yourself involved in. It won't happen until you STOP THE EMOTIONAL TRAIN and find some clarity in your situation.

My opinion is this. Anyone and I mean ANYONE who is married and participating in an affair has issues that they are choosing to ignore...those issues may relate to their marriage or even their own character. But the fact is that it is easier to act as if those issues don't exist and get caught up in what feels good. My advice to everyone today is to not allow youself to be used to make someone else feel better about themselves. That is their job! I told my friend that until he gets a grasp on the fact that this lady with all her good points has also lied to her DH, he isn't even going to begin to see what needs to be done in order to restore peace into his life. If you ladies have such a low opinion of yourself that this MM/OM is the only person in the world who is capable of making you happy, then you need to go out and live a little!

I don't mean for this post to come off sounding uncaring, not at all. But to attempt to hold onto a love that should not be, one that began on the wrong footing, one that is not going to end in a real future together is like saying your life doesn't matter because be assured that when they are away from you, they are living their lives to the fullest! I'm angry today that there are so many people in the world who care more about getting their own needs met than what is right and wrong. This is in no way judging because I have certainly been there, but I can also say I am not in that place anymore and I never want to go there again!

I wish you all a really great day. It is beautiful here and I intend to enjoy it!

Hugs,

GT

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Avatar for raspberrykat
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 10:28am
This is what I hear you saying ..... you are strong and are just waiting for us all to join you.

Yes, I agree with you, we are not looking at the real problem. For myself, the issues are so clouded yet that I can't see them. Twenty some years with a man that treated me like S**T ..... a Three year affair for me ..... does it balance the scales? Not yet ..... I struggle every day with things my H did to me in the past, even going so far as to not talk to OUR daughter for 2 years because he thought she was with the wrong man. She was with the wrong man .... but she needed support, not to be judged by her own Father. I wonder how many years of therapy it will take her to get over that wounding?

As I continue to struggle with my own conflicts, I love to come here and read your posts, yours more than anyone elses have made me question myself.

TY

K

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 10:31am
Your post is right on. I am having second thoughts and haven't even got to the physical part yet. But I do want to keep this man in my life as a friend for life and he feels the same way. We live so far apart and can only see other once or twice a year so maybe there is hope for friendship only.
Avatar for guardedticker
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 11:10am
Wow K, thanks for the compliment. Glad that something I could write made you want to take a look within. As a divorced woman, you learn to really look at yourself if you take the time and realize the importance of it. I never felt that my divorce was my fault, in fact for the most part I always felt like a victim. It took the better part of four years to be able to see my part in my marriage failing. And we can all deny that we have anything to do with it and in many cases, we have very little to do with it, but marriage always takes two willing participants...the word WILLING being the key.

I'm sorry you've felt so mistreated in your marriage. None of us deserve that. In fact, my daughter recently became engaged and if there was any advice I've given to her that I felt was so important was to really look at how this man treated her. I can comfortably say that he loves her and he has proved it...but yet there are still reservations because I am a parent. I believe that's normal. How you handle those reservations are really important too. Sounds like your DH didn't handle them in appropriate manner if he came down so hard on her. In fact, trying to control a person who believes they are falling in love is pointless. Perhaps in truth, he was struggling with letting her go..but no excuse for handling her in a way less than with respect as long as she is old enough to make her own decisions.

Yea, I will agree with you that I hope you will join me on the ending side of the fence...at least until you can get your own situation dealt with. Trying to "get back" at your DH or "balance the scales" will only hurt another man. It's funny how we don't look that far ahead when we are in such pain. In my case, the MM is in pain, I was just lonely after having been through divorce. I've always been so strong and I guess if there was any MM who could get to me, it would be him considering he was also the very first love of my life. I can tell you from standing in the OP's shoes in my own affair, that I would love to have a long term relationship with this MM but under the right set of circumstances and I was continuing to sell myself short by accepting less. I wasn't helping him to face what he needs to in his marriage and deal with it. And at this point although I'll always love him, I do hope he deals with it one way or the other. If he stays married, that's fine. I just want him to get off of this pattern of behavior that has put him in such turmoil. If he finds that he needs to move on in his life and ends up divorced, even then a real relationship between us would take time to develop.

It is really a let down when we have to accept that this OP in our lives has to be let go, but man is it liberating! I have never said no to a future with him, but no to any future as things stood. Hope you can continue to open up on this board until you can find your way too...whatever path you choose.

Hugs,

GT

Avatar for guardedticker
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 11:16am
Have to ask you a question. In your communicating with this man, have you and he defined the word friendship and what that means? Do you talk in a romantic way to each other or does either one of you do that? An emotional affair is every bit as dangerous if not moreso than a physical one. If either of you have ever gone past the point of platonic friends even just in conversation, then you are in an affair. In my opinion, the physical part is nothing more than the assurance that it will end. So my advice to you is this. If you REALLY want this man's friendship and that is ALL it is, then you need to keep your boundaries. If either one of you can't, then it would not be wise to take one step further. You're playing with fire and let me tell you, it burns!

Hugs,

GT

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 11:18am
I agree with you. There are always issues that precipitate an affair. In some cases it could just be a lack of moral character, but dont you think the person becoming involved with a known married person is also responsible? There is no one person to blame. I think everyone here has issues they are trying to resolve and it is encouraging to see that some people are successful in resolving them.
Avatar for guardedticker
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 11:35am
I completely agree with you. Yes, both the MP and SP share in the responsibility of their choices. Something you should know about me. I don't assign blame on either side of the affair. I don't feel that is a good way for anyone to heal. But how about we approach it like this and perhaps it will help you to better understand where I do come from.

Being divorced, I am free to see anyone I want to see. In seeing that person, there is nothing about it that can cause me to feel guilty. I don't have any obligation to anyone else other than myself. If I don't care enough about myself, then I may participate in behavior that I shouldn't which could make me feel guilty. I believe that happens to us all, but the fact remains, that I am not responsible for making any other human being be honest to their vows. You bet I have had issues. I went through a divorce so there are bound to be. I take working through them one day at a time and ask for God's direction to help me to completely heal from the loss I've experienced. I have also worked at growing as a person, becoming happy again after the divorce, taking responsibility for my own life and finally getting to the place where I could look at myself in my past relationships and realize what I need to do differently in the future. The LAST thing I want is the wrong relationship with the WRONG person and the only way any of us can find the right one is to really know ourselves.

The MP carries a whole lot more responsibility. First there is the weight of two relationships - hiding and lieing when it is necessary (which being the OP I never had to do), there is a time when a decision has to be made because most people cannot live for a long period of time shuffling two lives, there is the reality of the pain that will be caused by either the discovery of the affair or the eventual divorce or ending of the affair, but most importantly the one thing you have that an OP doesn't is a commitment you made to another for life. That is huge! Yes there are issues that you will have to deal with from deciding on the status of marriage to moving into the future. If you stay married, you have to work at rebuilding the marriage relationship OR you can stay in the same old situation you've always dealt with. If you choose divorce, then there is the fallout from that scenario (which I know all too well) - the issues you take from the failed marriage and need to work on as to not repeat them. One way or the other, self discovery and growth has to take place.

So in summary, in no way do I blame one over the other - it's just that I have never been married and had an affair. I hope this helps you to understand where I'm coming from with my post.

GT

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 2:12pm
My X-MM and I had an emotional affair for over a year before it became physical. He lives over 300 miles away so it was really difficult to get together. We both went into it with our eyes open and knew that neither of us would leave our spouses for the other. At first it was more to see if what we had before (as teens) was still there or if maturity would make it better.(It was way BETTER!) We recently decided that we could not continue that aspect of our relationship. At first we tried the NC but we both felt lost without the daily e-mails...even to just check in. Both of our marriages need some work but we are both committed to staying in them. But I have to tell you, it hurts when he discusses things that are going on between them, as it hurts him to hear what is happening here at home too. He's taking her to Mexico in May for a vacation. Deep in my heart I wish it was me going with him...but it's not...it's his DW and she does deserve it. MY DH and I will get away later in the year.

I know that NC is better but day to day chats are a big habit with us. There is no romantic talk between us anymore and we are trying to keep it as friends. He's been in my heart for 40 years so he's a hard habit to break....for anyone who doesn't know- he was my teenage sweetheart, separated in my senior year, saw each other once after that (1969)and he found me 31 yrs later.

We are both trying. It's hard. But I went into this with my eyes open and his were too. Any pain that either of us experience is our own fault

Avatar for raspberrykat
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Wed, 03-26-2003 - 2:41pm
I'm not trying to get back at my H .... and the balance thing comes from therapy. She says that I haven't let go of my past anger at H .... I was never looking for a way to hurt my H .... my affair started because I was so lonely and felt so rejected by my H. the only thing that made him change was filing for divorce, which we didn't go through with .... but I struggle with wanting to do it now ....

As for H with our daughter ..... she was old enough to make those decisions for herself, but not wise enough to see how wrong her choice was. I stuck with her through it. One thing I would tell my daughter about marriage is that if there is a problem, go to therapy right away .... sometimes you need someone to mediate for you.

I'm also wondering how you finally came to your decision to divorce? My H & I do not fight, we talk rationally with eachother .... we never did fight before either, would just not talk to eachother for weeks!! talk about painful! Anyway, I guess I just want to hang onto H's friendship as much as I want to hang onto the friendship with OM .... wow I'm just a confused woman!!

Any thoughts are always appreciated .... your advice and counseling are always welcome. By the way .... are you in real life?? LOL .... you would be good at it if your not!

*hugs*

K

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 2:44pm
Habits can be broken.

Heroin addicts break them..Smokers break them..300 lb women who need to diet break off the twinkies do it..and sometimes you need to break the habit of recontinuing a DREAM.

See..the man is MARRIED. UNAVAILABLE..OFF LIMITS..YOU are married..YOU are off limits..YOU are unavailable..and you will NEVER work 100% FULLY on your marriage with a guy in the wings whether it was physical or not. The MATES wouldnt want daily contact of ANY kind if they knew there was this stuff going on.THEY have the right to a FULLLy present mate.At this point its not about how hard it is...what happens happens..we get what we deserve..NOPE..its about are your MATES getting what THEY deserve too..a FULLY present partner with NO secret relationships flying over the Internet by daily emails.

If you can be just*friends* with FULL disclosure TO your mates..BOTH of them....then thats your business...to try to do DAMAGE control..MANAGE an affair so it hurts LESS and you can STILL have contact...wellllllll..guess what? It wont work.

Your mates will be VERY hurt and they deserve better than this stuff.

Imagine your husband....he had an emotional afair...then he sleeps with the person ( called adultery)..he keeps it HIDDEN..and CANT get over the CONTACT and says Mitzie...I am KEEPING this woman as my special daily email *friend*..youd go into ORBIT.

If it WOULDNT bother you that is a different matter.Then the arriage is REALLY pretty far gone and needs a mighty resusitation or can it.

Playing BOTH ends against the middle will get ya burned and the MATES too.

I dont care if the OM NEEDS you in his life..he wont be NEEDING you in mexico. He will be WITH her and needing her...and when he comes BACK he will want to have his *friend* to talk with.

Dont do it.

STOP this madness please....let the guy go..he isnt available..and hon this is seriously wrong business......the fact he can DO this TO his wife tells you that his character is on LOW..and integrity is on lower.You dont have to listen to his recountings of fun..the fact he TELLS you and doesnt seem to realize its HURTFUL shows you are a good time buddy....a buffer and no doubt a friend...but a friend he feels he can tell whatever he wants about his personal life, and it doesnt HURT.PLUS...would his WIFE want HER business told to you? Thats gossip..and he has to cut THAT out.

Can the guy.

Quickly before your mates find out and NO one will be on vacation..but in divorce court.

Avatar for guardedticker
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 3:22pm
Well K, my divorce won't help you come to any conclusions, believe me. My XH and I were getting along fine or so I thought. He came home one day and announced that he wasn't happy and was leaving the marriage. That was that. He left the state as his family was in another state and then he pursued a disillusion of marriage, which I didn't agree to because in all honesty, I didn't understand anything that was happening and with a disillusion you use the same attorney. I suggested he come home to discuss the disillusion and he refused so I knew I had to get my own attorney. Our communication completely broke down very suddenly and to this day, I have been given no answers other than what I posted. I ended up receiving a phone call from him within just a few weeks of him leaving where he was crying and told me he still loved me and thought he was making the biggest mistake of his life...oh the drama because the very next day when I attempted to speak to him, he was right back into the divorce mode. That was it for me. I had already seen an attorney by that time, and informed my X that if he wanted a divorce to sue me. So when I was served with the papers, I simply filed a countersuit and a motion to have his case against me dismissed because he had abandoned the relationship. My motion was granted, I became the plantiff and got everything asked for in the divorce. So when you are contemplating that route, you have to be so careful how you proceed whether you are the one wanting the divorce or not. Good legal advice is imperative.

As for my career, I have had my own business for eight years and no I am not a counselor! However, I have been in the same field of work for over twenty years and at one time spent quite a few years in Human Resources and did alot of training. If I had it to do all over, counseling might have been a good choice...ya think?

I sincerely hope that you and your DH do not go days without speaking to each other now. That is just as unhealthy as the fights. In fact, I believe feeling isolated is the one thing that leads to affairs more than anything. What I mean by that is this. I am divorced and am alone in a relationship sense. But I do not feel one bit isolated. When you are in a marriage where there is no communication, it is easy to feel isolated. I hope that makes sense to you. I always told the MM that I would rather be alone and really alone than married to someone and be alone.

Hugs,

GT

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