MIA, FLYING & anyone else who wants to join in :)

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-24-2005
MIA, FLYING & anyone else who wants to join in :)
Thu, 07-12-2012 - 6:25pm

Oh I remember very much how that thread ended Clarity - it ended with you coming to a conclusion that made me sob and sob!  Okay, maybe I'm being dramatic - but it did make me throw my napkin at the screen!

You said that you were going with the majority (on that thread) that one must plead to the AP's selfishness in order for them to get out of the affair.  NO, NO, NO!!!

Selfishness is what got them involved in an affair to start with!  What we must plead to is all the innocent people that could be affected/are being affected by the affair. 

People in affairs (at least the decent ones) do their best to NOT think about the innocent or unknowing victims because they know that will take away from their A high that they so desperately feel they need.  So, when we try to sway them away from the affair because of all the harm the AP and A is causing them (rejection, invalidation, self esteem destruction, heartache - etc) - we are only prolonging the bad behavior. 

If we only think about ourselves and the hurt it is causing us - then how can we avoid another affair?  Won't we just find another AP who we think won't hurt us. Or who we think we may not get so emotionally attached to?  Or who may not reject us, or who may rescue us, or whatever you can insert here that fits your situation?   

Ending affair behavior for good means we need to focus on everyone else - because that is the one thing we were NOT doing while engaging in order to avoid feeling the guilt.  That's what needs to be focused on  - the guilt.

Now, if you're a person that didn't feel guilt, then this approach would be a waste of time as your issues would be beyond these boards.

PS - I don't consider this a hijack because this thread was about the vets and Clarity is probably the vettiest-vets here (no offense - just saying...) and so this is really her thread to discuss whatever she wants.

PSS - No short term memory Clarity?? Hmmm, wonder why that is..... I KNEW IT!!!  I like it.  

See, I don't remember it like that.  Because I thought I decided I was okay if someone wanted to call my taking in foster kids non-selfless act....I didn't much care of it being called a selfish act.because at the time, I never gave thought to how it would make me feel...which looking back it did make me feel good...and for various reasons.  And then someone insisted that my need to argue it was proving somethingorother...when I was just debating the issue...it got a bit confusing for me.  Right now, I guess all I can remember is how the debate over me and my story..and not the entire debate panned out.  See...it's always about me :smileyhappy:

To address your other comment about how I went with the majority, I'm heading over now to check that out.  I generally do not acquiesce to the majority just because they are the majority.  What I vaguely do remember is that I might have gone with the majority as far as using a different approach in getting people to stop...less using of the 'look at the selfish aspect of ones behavior' vs. 'look at how much better you will feel living honestly and with intergrity' because most felt that spoke to people better.

brb...unless dinner interrupts me :smileyhappy:

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-06-2009
I'll move my response down here, because I don't really think I'm debating - just explaining.. okay miss-CL-sir? (your new picture makes me feel like I have to call you that)
I dunno, Mia...I think you're reaching here...but I suppose any further discussion would be better done on the debate board.  I just don't see how a single gal or guy competing with another for someone's love...and winning...is on the same scale as being an interloper and competing against a wife and a family.  
If I'm committed, then there is no competition out there, nor would I allow anyone to think he could be a competitor. 
If someone else could be a competitor, then I have chosen to let him in, I opened the door and my commitment has already been broken.  And if I choose to pursue that relationship and end my marriage, it isn't because the OM won, it's because my marriage was already irreparably damaged. 
Sometimes when you're in a dead-end relationship it takes something like interest in another to push you to do the honest and fair thing.

My point was that it bothers me when someone thinks that another took away their spouse/partner.  People aren't mindless objects.  Statements like:  "how you can you break up my family", "how can you be happy forging a life with my spouse when it's killing me and our family", "how can you find pleasure at the expense of our pain"..  are just ridiculous to me.

If a person doesn't want to be with you don't blame or try to lay a guilt trip on the person they do want to be with.  This applies in any kind of relationship, whether we're 15 or 50, single or committed.
That's all I was sayin'... :smileyhappy:
Now, if you're choosing to just have an affair, then that's a whole other can of beans.  Bad, bad beans.
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-24-2005

No we weren't debating, but it thought it might take on the tone of one....that's all I was sayin'...and although I see nothing wrong with a lively debate every so often...bringing it down here was a good idea.  :smileyhappy:

It depends upon the situation in regards to a spouse saying the things you mention.  I'm thinking along the lines more of the wife and family who knows nothing of the affair and who's husband has not come clean and said there is another woman in the picture competing with you.  The other woman is then knowingly trespassing on another's property...I know, I know...people aren't property, but the contract binds them...'til a divorce takes place.  She's colluding with him in his deceipt and betrayal of his wife and children.  I think that is getting your happy while running roughshod over others...at others' expense...the unwitting players.  And I've heard some OW say that they are not doing anything wrong because they are not the ones cheating on his wife and family.  But isn't that joint venture?  But it's different, I think, if a MM has told his wife about the OW and he chooses the OW.  Now his wife is in the know...and she can choose to leave, or stay and compete and making such statements should be reframed and redirected to the WH.

I don't know if I'm explaining myself withanyrealclarity here.  Sometimes, it's just a gut thing and I can't really explain that gut thang.  That's why I was never all that good at debating and why a good deal of my time was spent on Allsides in the Hulas,Hamsters and Hammocks Hut...serving drinks :smileyhappy:

As far as I am concerned, if the situation presented itself...well, if a woman can steal MH away, she can have him...I wouldn't want him anymore. And if he ever came to me and told me another woman had turned his eyes, I'd tell him "go".  I will never ever again demean myself by competing with another woman for a man.  And thinking about it, I'd be pissed at her for eyeballin' my man, knowing he was taken...but then, I'd have to guess he really wasn't taken was he...in his heart...anyway.  But, it would still hurt and she would still suck.

And about that choosing to have an affair...again there is a difference. If you are out looking for a MM to have an affair with, although it is sad in my eyes, there are indeed MM who are happy to oblige because they are looking for the same thing, but if you are out to seduce an otherwise-faithful MM into cheating...there's those bad beans you're talking about.


iVillage Member
Registered: 05-06-2009
At 45, the person who is right for us could be different than at 25.  But at 45, we might still be married to the one we chose at 25 - even if we know things aren't quite right anymore since so many other factors are in play by that point.
And since we can't predict or control when the person who may be right for us will come along - the initial relationship could start as an affair, which I don't necessarily see as wrong.  As long as at this point, they stop and do the right thing - be honest and authentic. 

Continuing as an affair - now that's where all be bad comes in. 
OW/OM that think they are doing nothing wrong are lacking in empathy and maybe even sociopathic - or, at the very least, in extreme denial and delusional.
And I'm with you about the pissed reaction at a woman who would eye out a taken man.  But I guess it doesn't really happen that way - at least if the girl is decent.  I think in most cases, we feel attraction, then say, oh, but I'm married, or he's married and just let it go - but then if we know this person, and get to spending any time together, that connection that you can't deny starts, and if it's reciprocated and your boundaries are already weak....
But those girls that just see a man, know he's taken and still flirt shamelessly or slip a number......SKANKS!!  That's what I say.  Bad-bean-skanks...