Advice based on a general observation...

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-10-2004
Advice based on a general observation...
14
Fri, 04-30-2004 - 5:30pm
ladies

I have read so much on here as to why didn’t he call? Why didn’t he email? Why aren’t these men chasing us? Why? Because most likely these men they know they have you, and they know they have you right where they want you. Think about it…if you spill your guts as to how you feel about him, or call, or email consistently, well, the man KNOWS how you feel, and most likely knows already what your reactions will be to his actions…of course he is going to back off and slow down; he no longer has to WORK at keeping that hold on you…I’m not saying that these men are necessarily “jerks,” I think it’s just in a man’s (or that masculine) nature to behave in this manner (especially when a relationship is not all that serious, and let’s face it, affair relationships can only be so serious…hmmm?)

Just something to think about…I think this can be applied to all relationships, not just affair relationships. Also, one thing I have learned to be true of many of the men from my past (including the man am I with currently)…most men LOVE and WANT a confident and assured woman. If you don’t allow him to treat you like a doormat…HE WON'T!!! Also, it’s not about appearing as if you are confident; it’s about truly BEING confident in who you are, what you want, and what you DESERVE from a relationship (and let's face it, I think everyone here knows that deep down we all deserve more than a part-time relationship, i.e., an affair, but I'm not here to judge...contrary to the beliefs of some here, I would just like to offer an opinion and advice from time to time if I may). So, just an opinion. Have a good weekend...

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iVillage Member
Registered: 01-14-2004
Fri, 04-30-2004 - 5:59pm
I started off reading your post with a little skepticism and felt a little offended at first. But then I realized that you're right. Too many men do behave that way. They are interested primarily in the "chase" and lose interest when they feel they have "won". It is particularly true of men who either don't have feelings for a person or who are scared of the feelings they do have, though. I think most of the posts you're referring to would fall into one of those two categories.

And I completely agree with your second paragraph. Women should believe in themselves and what they have to offer. I see way too many women (and men for that matter) who beat themselves up and don't realize what great people they are. I think self-esteem problems are the primary cause of many relationship failures and I would love to see people stop letting others control their opinions of themselves.

Just for the record, mayer, I personally welcome you here and I think posts like this add a lot to the dialogue on the board. I know you and I had some differences in the past, but I don't have any negative feelings from it. Glad to see you offer this opinion.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-19-2004
Fri, 04-30-2004 - 6:19pm
Mayer,

Totally agreed. Women need to stand up for their rights. No question about it.

PG

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-01-2004
Fri, 04-30-2004 - 6:31pm
I totally agree with what you have just posted...

I don't like to play games but none-the-less I play hard to get - hard to sometimes get ahold of - I make it sometimes questionable if I will be able to be reached on a particular day or time when he is available - mostly because I like to leave him

wanting more -

I just like to give enough so he knows he's loved, appreciated, needed, wanted, desired, sexy and everything else under the sun - but not so much so that he walks away with his head floating in the clouds and away from me -

My MM is the same way with me - he has explained it as "I keep it so you are just on the edge of feeling like you have enough of me - yet knowing I am leaving you wanting me more ...."

I am a pretty hard case to crack - been called the " man " of my relationships because I

don't soften emotionally - yet when it matters most I feel I do and I think these men you are talking about are capable of the same

great post topic

K

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-16-2003
Fri, 04-30-2004 - 6:43pm
mayer, i see too many women being too pushy to get a man's attention. They jump on them like they have never seen a man before. I am sure the men are naturally scared of these kind of females. They are like predators, they grab what they like with no decency. Yes, there can be dignity and decency in an affair too. For example, my OM would never persue other married woman beacuse "he is already in the game", so as to speak. Same with me, I woould never two time anybody with him. That is not right in my book. So the point is that what you get is what you think you deserve. If you think there has be decency in all life situations then you will not settle for less. Now, that to me is self esteem. my 2 cents

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-15-2004
Fri, 04-30-2004 - 8:55pm
As I started to read your post, I could feel myself getting defensive because I have been guilty of feeling needy. But you are totally right. Taking control of the situation (or having good self-esteem), whatever you want to call it is the key to happiness, at least my happiness. I started to find myself obsessing/crying/feeling sorry for myself and the whole A situation. Then, I realized that I am the only one who has the control to make myself feel either miserable OR happy. I told MM that we shouldn't count on seeing each other over the summer, and that I didn't really want him to contact me due to our circumstances - we are both married, he has caller id on his home phone, we both have kids at home during the summer. I immediately felt better about our situation, felt peace, felt calm. AMAZING what a little self-confidence will do.
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-03-2004
Fri, 04-30-2004 - 11:06pm


I just wanted to share a few thoughts about this thread.

First, it is a great topic! I agree completely that self esteem plays a huge part in any good relationship. I am in control of myself and my actions. I can't control, nor would I truthfully want to control, MM. If there is a choice between acting and reacting, I know which I would prefer.

What you've described, the little bit of elusiveness, is something I learned from my mother. I've mulled it from time to time. There is a fine line between holding your counsel, or perhaps simply holding on to yourself as a complete human being and the despised and misused "game playing." MM and I love each other. Yet part of what he loves about me, and what I love about him, is that we are each independent, strong individuals. He doesn't own me. I don't own him. But together, we become something stronger, something better, something _more_.

That doesn't mean that we don't need each other. That doesn't mean that we are always completely focused on each other, or that we are focused on each other at the same time. It simply means that I treat him with the respect that I expect. If there's a problem, we discuss it. He's honest with me, although if he suspects that honesty would hurt, he tends to avoid an issue so I don't get hurt. I know him well enough to know what his silence means. If I need to take things further, I do. Then he'll open up and again, he'll be honest. Sometimes it does hurt. Sometimes, simply acknowledging the feelings brings us closer together.

I guess I'm rambling a bit tonight, but I just wanted you to know that I believe that the more self realized two people in love are as individuals, the stronger and more fulfilling the relationship becomes. Whining and clinging turns people off. Manipulating may work in the short run, but does nothing to truly deepen the relationship and ultimately hurts it by demeaning the other person as an object. I don't have to have MM. Separation hurts, but I lived forty three years without him, and I am confident that I can live without him, now. The point is that we choose to share our lives. And that choice is empowering and fulfilling, without being draining or hurtful.

IMHO. ::grins::

Cazrida



iVillage Member
Registered: 03-10-2004
Sat, 05-01-2004 - 6:37am
Mayer, I appreciate your straightforwardness and I totally agree with you. Those things you've described I know I've complained about them hundreds of times, why didn't he call, why didn't he email, why doesn't he care about me the way I care about him, etc....I don't like playing games, but you're right, why should we be so available to these men or women? Why should we be chasing them? I know our hearts get in the way and that's often why we do it, but we really need to stop because it just leads to frustration and heartache. If these OM/OW really care about us, they will make the effort to call and email and whatever else, but if they don't we need to stop beating our heads against the wall waiting for them to do so. It's not fair to us. We need to respect ourselves and stop allowing ourselves to get hurt that way. Be strong, be confident, be secure in ourselves and our value as a person and if OM/OW can't appreciate that, than we don't need them in our lives. Anyways that's my 2 cents, hopefully I can follow my own advice! :)

IBC

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-30-2003
Sat, 05-01-2004 - 10:05am
Totally agree with the overall discussion but I do want to mention that many women (I know I do) seem to post more when they are feeling insecure for whatever reason. I know I was totally secure, confident etc for the past 9 months in my EMA. There I continued to read regularly but didn't really post much b/c i was fine. It is just these last few weeks that I have allowed myself to feel insecure. It is totally me. Things for my MM have not changed. He feels and acts the same as he always has. For some reason I have lost my edge making me feel less confident. Of course when you feel less confident you start to feel needy and then the obsessing comes out and you know the rest.I know it is just a stage I am in in my EMA. It happens from time to time and I know I eventually shake it off. If I didn't I would not be able to stay in this. This has to be on equal terms. I also know it is up to me to get it together, not MM. I appreciate everyone's support especially during these times. I think it is the wonderful people and your insights that keep us all from going batty in these unconvnetional relationships!
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-14-2004
Sat, 05-01-2004 - 12:18pm
I would absolutely have to co-sign with Mayer.

I was taught by my mother, and have found to be true, "men are the hunters, it's buried way back in their lizard brain. Let them chase you, show interest yes, but ultimately let them (at least think) they are chasing you." I have found this always to be true. It's not playing hard to get, per say, but simply not appearing desperate and needy. I have not chased my MM, but have let him know I am very interested in him on all levels. I have given him plenty of space, especially at the beginning since I wanted to know he had the same level of interest as I have. To my joy, he has been very attentive. Also, he has described his wife as clingy and overly emotional. I have seen this first hand when we go out for lunch, and she will call a minimum of three times during an hour lunch. Good Lord! He can't even eat a meal in peace. When he is very busy at work, I don't question for how long or tell him when to call me, but simply say, "Hope you have a smooth and progressive time with this new project, and look forward to when we can meet for coffee or lunch again." Then let him do his work, and let him contact me when he has a free moment or the project is completed. Lo and behold, he will email me every day, and by the third day will ask if I can meet him for lunch or just a cup of coffee." I do this for two reasons, 1) "what mama said and 2) I don't want to be "her", the nagging W. My nickname is based on something he said to me once when the W was on his back for not doing enough at home (she is a SAHM and expects him to work full time and share the cleaning, laundry, and cooking), it was also a rough week at work and he seemed stretched to the limit so I suggested instead of meeting at a restaurant for lunch, he needed a break so I would pack a lunch for us and meet in a park with a large lake. He turned to me, kissed my hand and said, "you are like a sweet summer breeze. Cool and refreshing, always lifting my spirits." I give him what he needs emotionally (things are not physical yet) which is peace and freedom. I listen, and don't judge or critisize and let him be who he IS rather than who I want him to be. And in my eyes, he is perfect just as he is.

And I am confident and strong, even with the miserable marriage I have had. He has said many times how he "adore" my strength and inner peace. It's something he claims to find "very sexy". He asked me how I see or would like to see this relationship go in the future. I told him I would love for this to be a very long term union, where we are friends as well as lovers, but I will be taking this one day at a time, because one day, it will end. It's something that makes me sad, but it's true. One that we all need to remind ourselves of from time to time.

I agree, that we all deserve something more than a part-time relationship. Each of us are in these A's for different reasons. Mine as you may or may not remember is I'm staying until my teenage children leave for college. I don't see myself ending up with my MM for many reasons, but for now, he is a calm island in my stormy married life. For that reason, I feel I have been blessed.

Wow! Well this posted turned out longer then expected.

Just some of my thoughts. :-)

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-22-2004
Sat, 05-01-2004 - 8:10pm
All I can say is 'thank you' for starting this thread. I printed out your initial one and it is in my desk drawer now. This is what I will need to remind me of my actions or potential actions. You're so right, once the chase is over and he has you where he wants you- seems that's when (at least for me) my self-esteem and overall confidence become non-existent.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Signed- weak, but getting stronger...

v.

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