Am I being a fool?

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
Am I being a fool?
10
Tue, 01-06-2004 - 4:03pm
Is it an affair if he isn't married and sounds like he doesn't really want to marry her?

I'm involved with a guy who has a girlfriend he says he loves but doesn't want to marry, at least not yet. He plans for her to move in with him from out of state in a few months. But whenever he's with her and can't see me he calls as soon as he's free of her.

Even when he says negative things about her I try not to say anything negative, but given what he's told me I've formed a really low opinion of her and recently I conuldn't stand it anymore and told him so. When I did he didn't even disagree with me. He actually told me most people think she's a bi***.

We started off as friends with privileges and I know he values me as a friend and lover, but I think I want more now. In the past I've told him I couldn't be in a relationship with him because I'd never be able to trust him. I even went as far as to say I'd laugh in his face if he ever did tell he loved me. I know now I did this to try to protect myself.

The thing is I'm beginning to find myself thinking that I'm so much better for him then she is and I'm beginning to think he sees it too. I'm even beginning to think I could trust him. As far as I can tell he's never lied to me and he trusts me with things he'd never share with his GF.

Am I an idiot for thinking he might love me enough to be faithful when I know he's cheated not just on this girlfriend but two others? He has told me he's had girlfriends he didn't cheat on and I have no reason to believe he was lying about it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 01-06-2004 - 4:13pm
nick, welcome to the board!

listen, can you just sit down and honestly talk with the guy? you've been friends, friends with benefits and now you are deeper into this R than you ever thought possible. i'm sure SG is too. so if it was me, i'd tell him straight out -- i've changed my mind about our future together and want to explore the possibility of you and i being together. ask him how he feels about that.

now every man i know when presented with any situation will initially react negatively and then come back around after a bit (a few hours or a few days depending on the man) and realize the idea was a good one or want to discuss your issue. so be prepared to be open-minded and patient.

what do you have to lose by being honest about your feelings? SG is not married, not even living with anyone. you are both free to do what you want in the future, moving forward. you have to let SG know your feelings have changed so he can make an informed decision about his future and then you can make a decision about your own!

good luck,

gurl

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
Tue, 01-06-2004 - 4:41pm
Truthfully, I'm not ready to open up to him that much. He's broken up with her and taken her back three times. I'm afraid he'll just tell me what he thinks I want to hear the same way he does with her and then shut down.

What I have considered doing is just trying to just start treating him like he is my boyfriend and stop seeing others, which he knows I have been until now. I felt this was a "Safe" way to get a feel for whether or not he would be interested in taking things to the next level.

I'm just so worried that I'm kidding myself. This si the first time I've ever been involved with a guy who was "taken" and in the past I'd always believed the old adage "Once a cheatter always a cheater." I'm just afraid I'm setting myself up for heartbreak.

I'm 32 and already cynical enough about men. I don't need to be my own worst enemy by letting myself get too emotionally involved with a guy who isn't really available to me.

The trouble is it seems like maybe he would be and I put him off with my earlier remarks and he's just trying to respect the boundries I've set.

What would you consider to be signs that he is interested in trying something more?

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-28-2003
Tue, 01-06-2004 - 10:13pm
Hi Nick

I normaly agree with Gurl about most things, BUT a three time cheater I would have a problem with that old habits are hard to break.

I can't suggest that you make to big of an emotional investment here sounds a bit risky, I suggest have fun but don't take it to seriously.

One last note ::it has been my experience that serial cheaters get very good at the art of lieing, you have no real way to know if he has lied to you at anytime, take what he says with a grain of salt.

JMO

FREE

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-05-2003
Tue, 01-06-2004 - 10:50pm
Well Nick, my honest opinion is that it sounds like your boyfriend doesnt really know what he wants. If he isnt really thrilled about his out of town girlfriend then why is he continuing with her...he wouldnt be in this situation unless he wanted to be. If you allow him to run back and forth~~then that is the type of relationship you will continue with...if he did it before what makes you think he wont do it again....Yes, eventually (for the most part) people settle down....its the crazyness that you have to go through to get to that point that is hard.....do you want to continue with this roller coaster type of relationship? If you allow it, then he will continue as is......don't you think? Have you thought of giving him an ultimatum? Maybe refuse his calls til he decides what it is, exactly, that he wants out of a relationship...Good luck.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 01-07-2004 - 10:59am
look nick -- i don't consider SG to be a serial cheater -- he's not married for god's sake, just dating these women! most men and women go from one R to the next R before they actually break off with the last one, because most people don't want to be alone. it happens all the time.

i like your idea of "acting" like he's your BF and subtly let him know you are not dating anyone else, hold his hand when you're out, ask about his day when you talk to him at the end of the day, etc.

but i would have to ask SG if he is still serious about the GF coming to live with him. let him know you just don't think it's such a great idea considering the two of you are seeing each other too. if SG says "yes, she's still coming", i'd let him know he probably won't be seeing you if and when GF appears on the scene. now is the time for you to set SG on a path to choose, or you will be the OW when there's no reason for you to be.

then the choice to change becomes yours!

gurl

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 01-07-2004 - 11:07am

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
Wed, 01-07-2004 - 3:37pm
I don't think he's a serial cheater. I think he's the kind of guy that doesn't want to break someone's heart. His GF, J, has begged him to reconsider every time they split going on and on about how much she needs him and can't live with out him and how he's just being selfish while balling her eyes out the entire time. I hate it when women use the waterworks and melodrama to get their way. She's such a user. She really just wants someone to spoil and coddle her the way her father did until he found a girlfriend, who of course she hates. What man does it is completely irrelevant. -- sorry, venting.

He's also the type of person who likes to know there's soemone around for him. So he wont end a bad R until he has a new R ready to go. He has had 2 other serious Rs in which he didn't cheat. Interestingly, he says he was very in love with these two women (he even admits he doesn't love J, the way he loved them) eventually they both broke up with him.

On top of that, I haven't exactly given him a reason to leave J so I can't really blame him for not breaking things off with her. In addition to asking him to not treat me like a girlfriend and telling him I would laugh in his face if he ever confessed his undying love for me; I have taken great joy in discussing my other sexual exploits with him (I know - completely immature).

Short of using diagrams and pie charts I couldn't make it any more clear I'm using him for sex and fun only. So why should he leave her, especially since I've never indicated I wanted him to.

I suppose I just posted here looking for reassurance that I'm not crazy or impossibly naive.

Wow, when I put it that way I've really been pretty callous towards his feelings.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for letting me ramble and offering your advice/opinions. It helps even when it isn't what I might want to hear.

Nick

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
Wed, 01-07-2004 - 4:37pm
Hey FREE,

Believe me when I tell you, I'm very cautious about trusting him and I wouldn't say I'm ready to invest too much emotionally yet, though my feelings are probably deeper then I'm ready to reveal even to myself. I'm very good at what my therapist calls "intellectualizing my emotions" and "compartmentalizing my feelings". I have yet to figure out if this is a good or bad thing. :)

I just don't think he feels the need to lie to me. He trusts me to not judge him and to keep his secrets.

He also makes it very easy for me to check up on him or catch him in a lie if I ever felt the need to (and I did once or twice at first). He almost always answers when I call him, he doesn't care if I can see over his shoulder while he's answering his personal email, he'll hand me his cell to make phone calls, he leaves stuff all over his apartment (bills, receipts, you name it). If he gets a call while I'm around he almost always answers it even ones from female friends or co-workers that come in on Nextel where I can hear the entire conversation. He even occassionally takes calls from her in front of me. None of which he will do with his GF, J.

So the only reason he would lie to is if I did give him an ultimatum, because then he would have to lie to keep me around. Which is why I'm hestitant to give him one.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
Wed, 01-07-2004 - 4:43pm
That's pretty much the plan. Show him want he stands to lose and then give him a deadline for deciding whether or not J moves down in May. She sounds a little unstable so there's no way I think I could continue things if she was here. I'd be afraid of finding one of my guinea pigs boiling on the stove.

Hey, at least I can have a sense of humor about that whole thing. :)

I'm trying to be objective, but given the choice between me and her I think he'd have to be on drugs to choose her. I mean even he admits most people, including some of his friends, think she's a B and he didn't even qualify it with "but they don't know her like I do."

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
Wed, 01-07-2004 - 5:47pm
Honestly, I think he continues with her out of guilt and fear.

GUILT

She knows just how to make feel like a jerk. She'll start a fight with him and when he tries to defend himself she immediately starts to cry and say he doesn't love her.

She also likes to explain to him all the reasons he should stay with her, how wonderful she is, how she takes care of him, and how if he just weren't so selfish and would change for her everything would be wonderful between them.

FEAR

He's implied she has threatened to kill herself if he leaves her again. Not to mention he depends on her using the pill for protection. If he were to start distancing himself it's pretty safe to bet she'd stop taking them and he knows it. I mentioned the possibility to him he's just said, "Yeah, I know." So he obviously thinks she'd do it.

She's completely pshycho as far as I can tell. She reminds me a lot of my incredibly codependent ex-BF.