and he said......

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
and he said......
51
Fri, 01-09-2004 - 10:34pm
Hello all.

Well, today I saw MM, so we could "talk" as he requested. I was ready to tell him that it was over and that I needed to move on with my life no matter how much I loved him. I did not anticipate what was going to happen. When I told him, he said that is what I came to talk about - you and me. He proceeded to tell me that he fully understood why I felt the way that I do and realized that he has not been the best person in my life after what he did over the last 7 months. Now, that I expected. What I didn't expect was the actual tears that came as he was telling me how much he needed me in his life and that he is going to focus on him and I rather than him and W. It is really hard for me to stick to my guns when a man is crying let alone him. He is this huge (yes, I do mean body size) man's man, you know the type. I cried through it with him. At least my eyes were already puffy from the last few days of crying over this so I don't look any worse than I already did.

He told me that he knew that it hurt because the divorce was not happening right now and how much damage he did to me and my trust by ending the relationship when W was told she was pregnant. MM went on to say that in his time away from me, because of how he felt to be away from me for so long, he knows that I am the one he is in love with and wants to be with. He apologized for not making himself clear when we talked the other day and realized that he needed to let me know exactly how much he loves me. He explained to me that yes, he loves his wife but not the kind of love that it takes to make a marriage work. That he will always love her because she did have his son even when she didn't want children and that the only reason that he ended our relationship was because he felt obligated to do what he could to make the marriage work since there was a baby on the way. Quickly he followed up with the .... "but I now know that just because she got pregnant by accident that by accident the marriage will not work and even if it could I couldn't completely put forth my best effort because of the love I feel for you." He went on to tell me everything that he is going to do to regain my trust in hopes that I will allow our relationship to move forward. He also said that once he knows that he can get custody of his youngest son and that he won't lose everything he has worked for all these years then he would be mine for good. (I thought that before our break and he broke my heart).

He also did not even try to get me into bed, which is completely out of character for him. He just put his arms around me and held me with a few kisses here and there. I feel so good when I am in his arms - and safe. Stupid but I do. I guess four years of being held by those arms became a habit that I just don't want to give up even though it looks as though I might have to :( Last week when I saw him I wondered if what we had was gone, as I posted before, but today it was so damned powerful between us I almost felt guilty for even mentioning that I thought we should end the A.

Is it all a bunch of bull? Am I just being an overly emotional person that is acting like a twit? Can a MM after this long and a pregnancy, etc. really mean all of this? Is it that he is just willing to play the game as far as he has to in order to keep me around now that he has decided, again, that I am who he wants. I expected him to say some of these things to be able to keep his cake, so to speak but everything else - no way did I expect it.

I know that gurl and FREE feel that he is manipulating me and I would love to hear the two of your's interpretation of all of this along with the others here on this board because now I am really screwed up. I am trying to figure out if they are right :(

What a nightmare! Until this A, I always had a clear vision of where I was going in my life and now, everything seems so clouded.

Thanks in advance to everyone and their input and advice.

Confused

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-28-2003
Fri, 01-09-2004 - 11:16pm
HI Confused

REMEMBER YOU ASKED FOR IT

Total hog wash, Standard operating procedure for this type of guy, enought b*llsh*t to fertilize 40 acres ETC ETC ETC...

Sorry dear but you are being Played/manipulated/sucked back in.

He knows there is no court in the land that will give him custody of a baby EVER and he will keep you waiting forever, the child will be his insurance agains ever commiting to you or leaving his wife.

The tears are not unexpected they seem to have been written in the players handbook in the last couple of years, men have learned that women have a hard time with them (tears) as long as it does not happen to often then they just look pathetic.

""""What a nightmare! Until this A, I always had a clear vision of where I was going in my life and now, everything seems so clouded. """""

This is what he has done to you and wants to keep doing to you just to satisfy his LUST AND EGO it's about power not love on his side of the equation.

You asked I answered and I know I am right sorry.

FREE AT LAST



iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
Sat, 01-10-2004 - 12:53am
hi FREE,

Yes, I did ask for it - I honestly wanted to know if this was the typical MM in an A playing the game. I have never been in an A nor have I ever played with another person's emotions so I am looking for guidance. I appreciate your candor and views. Thank you for letting me know that it still appeared to be on the same lines. I was baffled and just left it I guess wanting to believe for another period of time that he truly did love me even if I am being naive. At least then I can at least think about someone loving me even if it isn't true. I gave up on love before I met him so I guess it is time to give up on it again or at least the hope of receiving it back because I won't ever get into another serious relationship again. So.... even though I still have to end it, I at least know that there are people that I can confide in to help me understand the how, where, why, what and when of what these men do in these situations.

Thank you again for your opinion as it is valued here.

Confused

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-28-2003
Sat, 01-10-2004 - 12:27pm
HI Confused

WE NEVER GIVE UP ON LOVE we are women.

There is somebody out there to love you But he is not likeky to be married.

Free

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-28-2003
Sat, 01-10-2004 - 6:24pm
Hi Confused me again

I was in a very big hurry when I wrote earlier.

You are 32 years young, you still have most of your life in front of you , I think when you settle down and have got some of the drama out of your system you will accept the truth that we are not really capable liveing without love in are life just the way we are built.

That love does not have to be romantic love to be fullfilling just ask a nun, and no I am not telling you to become a nun.

Sooner or later you are going to exit from the affair, your going to hurt that is a fact but in time the hurt will decrease if you let it by letting go of the MM ,the feelings and the false hopes you had for MM.

Then and only then will you be able to open your eyes to the possablities thet life will bring across your path.

Take it from an old chick, if you choose to make good decissions for yourself your future can happy and fullfilling with a Man of your own or with out if that is what you want, I am convinced the painfull leasons you are learning from being involved with a MM will guide to make the right decissions for you and your children.

Be well and rest assured people do care for you that want nothing from you but to know that you will be happy.

FREE FOR EVER

FREE

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-28-2003
Sat, 01-10-2004 - 11:23pm
bump
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
Sun, 01-11-2004 - 2:10am
Thank you FREE,

I understand what you are saying and I agree with you. I really just meant the romantic type of love or ever having a SO. Before MM, I had not allowed myself to be in a relationship for close to 7 years, two of which I thought MM was my best friend in who I confided everything and he did as well (at least from what I could tell). The reason for the length in between relationships is because I seem to make really bad choices when it comes to men. My first serious relationship dumped me because I got pregnant - I ended up miscarrying the baby, my second serious relationship was my children's father who was an abusive alcoholic/drug addict that I ended up being a prisoner of rather than a SO until I was able to get him sentenced to prison and this relationship. Yes, I have had flings, ONS, casual dating, etc. but those are the only three relationships that I consider serious. It is extremely hard for me to trust men to begin with so I just haven't allowed it much and when I have I feel foolish for doing so because apparently it doesn't mean anything to them. So, rather than go through it all again, I just won't do it again.

This A with MM has been rougher on me in the last week than anything else with my other relationships including putting my children's father in prison. I don't know why that is nor do I really want to know. I never intended on being in an A let alone falling in love with a MM. I never felt as strongly about anyone as I do MM (the cliche of him being my soulmate comes to mind)- sick isn't it. Anyway, enough of my whining - I just wish it would all go away and I could erase the last 4+ years.

Thanks for all of your support Free, it is appreciated. Obviously I can't turn anywhere else in my "real" circle of friends to discuss this and I appreciate the time that you have taken to support me since I came to this board a few days ago.

Thanks again FREE!

Confused

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-28-2003
Sun, 01-11-2004 - 2:19pm
Hi Confused

Don't you ever sleep?

I understand were you are coming from.

Try to remember your last poor decision concerning a man was 4+ years ago, that decision was aided I think by the perception that is so popular in the media that there is know difference between the way men are built and operate then women, this is total untrue.

Time has a way of teaching the most reluctant of us lessons and when a good measure of pain is added the lessons tend to stick better to or soul.

Take the things you have learned and apply them to your decisions I think you will be surprised how far you have come.

The past cannot be changed but the future is in your hands if you refuse to let it be taken from you.

Do not settle for second best anymore, you have paid the price to move up to a better model of man and they do exist out there, they may not appear to be your TYPE but you only need to look closer to find they are the right type.

A man that does not have honour is not worth having they only lower the people they touch.

You cannot change other people only how you react to them.

Have a better day

FREE

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
Sun, 01-11-2004 - 6:55pm
Hi FREE and to answer your question....yes I do sleep once in a while just only an hour or two here and there as I can. On top of all of this, one of my children has disabilities and I am in college full time as well so I can't afford to sleep very often. Thank goodness I still have a couple of days before the next semester starts so that hopefully I can get a little more rested up than I am.

I also kind of had to chuckle when I read your response about types. The reason is, MM is so completely different than anyone I have ever been in a relationship with it is almost scary. All of the men I dated before were the rough and tough, biker, most in trouble or had been in trouble with the law kind of men (only one that was abusive to me though which you already know about). None of them were the types of men that one would take home to their parents for dinner. I don't know how I survived during all of that and I find myself after college the first time around and this time needing someone with substance - intelligence, goals, desires - none of which any of them had. But, this is the crowd I was used to, I was very screwed up until I had my children myself so they fit right into my scheme of things.

On the other hand, MM is sweet and gentle, highly educated, well respected in the community, coaches on top of his regular job, does not drink on a regular basis, doesn't party but once in a while and is not abusive in his demeanor what so ever, he is the most gentle lover I have ever had, the most complimentary in his attention to me AND he is close to my children. That is hard to be since my children don't let anyone close to them if they think they are dating mom. Of course, they don't know about the A so they don't view him as any sort of threat. He has all the things that I mentioned the others didn't - goals, desires, intelligence, substance, etc. I could not even tell you what physically attracted me to him except that his persistence in wanting the A paid off and the sexual attraction grew from there because I wasn't initially attracted to him in that way. And of course the emotional bond just got more and more because of how close of friends we were before the A started. I can sit here today and say that other than the fact that this is an A, he is the perfect man for me in every way except that there are obvious obstacles. So, I finally find the man of my dreams but I can't really have him at all and what I have had I need to say goodbye to - how ironic.

Anyway, I guess the moral of this story is that I have to find someone in between my extremes. Will I? Not where I am living now nor do I think I want to. Even though I know I have to end the A and how much it is hurting me I can be satisfied in knowing that I had loved as much as I would ever be capable of loving a person.

Betcha didn't know when you started responding to me that I was a complete bumbling idiot. Thanks for all of the advice and truisms that you continue to show me, FREE. I am learning a lot of things that I hope I can put into my daily life as well as to help me in finding the strength to do what I need to do.

Confused

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-28-2003
Sun, 01-11-2004 - 9:22pm
Hi Confused

At least you got a chuckle out of it, but I am inclined disagree somewhat with your conlusion , the biker types that you dated were I presume aggressive in an crude sort of way and got were they wanted to be in the sack with you, MM was also aggressive but in a subtle form of way and got were he wanted to be in the sack with you, aggressiveness comes in different packages but it is still the same thing , when a person pushes to accomplish goals that we find acceptable we think well of them and give it nice names, when otherwise it is called crime and we jail them, bikes and educated business men , pillers of the community that fight there way to the top of the pecking order are in fact in my opinion much the same TYPE of person.

As hard as it may be to believe I am well educated and deal with educated men and women everyday, I am just going to ask you to believe me when I tell you they are very DETERMINED people that feel that they have a right to the things they want and do not like takeing NO for an answer.

You called MM the perfect man for you, I am sure he displays charactaristics that you admire in a man, but perhaps display is the right word, he is on his best behaviour with you and will continue to show you what you need to see for his purposes.

I know I sound very negative but I went through this and for over a year refused to see the truth, when I left the A MY XMM (I hate calling him that now) found another woman to "fall in love with" pretty damm quick to, He is still married to the same woman.

I have heard the same story time and time again from friends and friends of friends I guess I am just getting real tired of these guys.

By the way what are you studying.

We are all born lacking wisdom it is the school of hard knocks that teaches us how to live, and if you keep this up your going to be very very smart.

Your are clearly not and a complete bumbling idiot just a young person learning about life.

FREE

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-06-2004
Mon, 01-12-2004 - 10:42am
Hi FREE

I guess I never thought about the types being the same just in different ways. I was looking more at the ways in which they have lived their lives, what they have accomplished, their attitudes, what they hold dear to them, etc. I was not looking at the overall goal and whatever means necessary getting the same thing makes them the same sort of person. I will have to really think about that one for a while.

My studies are in Criminal Justice. My first degree is in Business Administration but that just doesn't cut it - I want something more specialized so I am starting all over again.

Sorry to hear that you went through this too. I would not wish this on anyone. My instincts tell me to believe him and that he has never given me a reason not to because he has always been upfront with me. BUT then I wonder if it is like you say, displaying what I want to keep me around. Sigh! How do you ever tell the difference? I do know that I am his first A simply because of how long we have known one another and I would have known if he had done this before as well as him telling me. I cannot guarantee it would be his last although he tells me that it would never happen again with anyone else. He says that our friendship had qualities that his relationship with his W never had let alone all of the things that he has never gotten from his marriage since that time. Is it all BS? If it is then I really have no business ever being involved with anyone ever again if I can't decipher this kind of crap!!!

I think I am a professional student of the school of hard knocks. Sometimes I don't want the character that such challenges bring and on the other hand, as far as anyone else knows I am a tough as nails, never put up with any bull, call it like I see it kind of woman. I wouldn't dare show them this side of me - they wouldn't know what to do if they had to see me as vunerable.

You have given me even more to think about, FREE, as you do with each of your posts. Thanks!

Confused

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