and he said......
Find a Conversation
| Fri, 01-09-2004 - 10:34pm |
Well, today I saw MM, so we could "talk" as he requested. I was ready to tell him that it was over and that I needed to move on with my life no matter how much I loved him. I did not anticipate what was going to happen. When I told him, he said that is what I came to talk about - you and me. He proceeded to tell me that he fully understood why I felt the way that I do and realized that he has not been the best person in my life after what he did over the last 7 months. Now, that I expected. What I didn't expect was the actual tears that came as he was telling me how much he needed me in his life and that he is going to focus on him and I rather than him and W. It is really hard for me to stick to my guns when a man is crying let alone him. He is this huge (yes, I do mean body size) man's man, you know the type. I cried through it with him. At least my eyes were already puffy from the last few days of crying over this so I don't look any worse than I already did.
He told me that he knew that it hurt because the divorce was not happening right now and how much damage he did to me and my trust by ending the relationship when W was told she was pregnant. MM went on to say that in his time away from me, because of how he felt to be away from me for so long, he knows that I am the one he is in love with and wants to be with. He apologized for not making himself clear when we talked the other day and realized that he needed to let me know exactly how much he loves me. He explained to me that yes, he loves his wife but not the kind of love that it takes to make a marriage work. That he will always love her because she did have his son even when she didn't want children and that the only reason that he ended our relationship was because he felt obligated to do what he could to make the marriage work since there was a baby on the way. Quickly he followed up with the .... "but I now know that just because she got pregnant by accident that by accident the marriage will not work and even if it could I couldn't completely put forth my best effort because of the love I feel for you." He went on to tell me everything that he is going to do to regain my trust in hopes that I will allow our relationship to move forward. He also said that once he knows that he can get custody of his youngest son and that he won't lose everything he has worked for all these years then he would be mine for good. (I thought that before our break and he broke my heart).
He also did not even try to get me into bed, which is completely out of character for him. He just put his arms around me and held me with a few kisses here and there. I feel so good when I am in his arms - and safe. Stupid but I do. I guess four years of being held by those arms became a habit that I just don't want to give up even though it looks as though I might have to :( Last week when I saw him I wondered if what we had was gone, as I posted before, but today it was so damned powerful between us I almost felt guilty for even mentioning that I thought we should end the A.
Is it all a bunch of bull? Am I just being an overly emotional person that is acting like a twit? Can a MM after this long and a pregnancy, etc. really mean all of this? Is it that he is just willing to play the game as far as he has to in order to keep me around now that he has decided, again, that I am who he wants. I expected him to say some of these things to be able to keep his cake, so to speak but everything else - no way did I expect it.
I know that gurl and FREE feel that he is manipulating me and I would love to hear the two of your's interpretation of all of this along with the others here on this board because now I am really screwed up. I am trying to figure out if they are right :(
What a nightmare! Until this A, I always had a clear vision of where I was going in my life and now, everything seems so clouded.
Thanks in advance to everyone and their input and advice.
Confused

Pages
now that I am done laughing - good evening FREE.
The W - she is a bitter, hurt and angry woman but not only because of her M. I am really thinking that I need to give you more background on her but it isn't really appropriate on a public board but I will try, vaguely. I can say that her family are all looney. I know several of them. I agree with you that the drastic change could not be JUST the move but I have the feeling it does have something to do with family issues, also. It could be abuse from MM but I doubt it. If abuse is/was an issue I would tend to think it came with her upbringing because of the history of abuse in her family. I will explain why I don't think it would be from MM in a moment. The move put W closer to her immediate family. I don't know that MM would tell me about all of that knowing that I have seen her family members in action as well as my general despise, etc. The dad is a slut - married 5 times, 7 children - none of which are with the same woman. That is just an example of the "role models" that she came from. I could write a novel about the dysfunction of that family but I won't - psychobabble isn't my job, yet :) Her past, prior to being with MM is not a pretty one - not because of things she did but because of what types of people her family members are which I believe strongly impacts the type of person you are.
The reason that I don't feel it could be abuse is because of the line of work he has been in for so many years and there is no abuse on his family's side. Human Services, in the field of it that he is in, is a very difficult and trying job if you are not a understanding and able to cope with high stress type of person. I won't elaborate on this any more but if you want more details just let me know and I will send to you. However, I do know that his father had several affairs and oddly enough MM speaks very bitterly of his father and what he did to his mother by having the affairs. That is why I don't tend to think that he is a chronic cheater or that having the A with me was planned - I truly do believe I am the first A and it just happened.
I agree with you about the email but I will give him through tomorrow because I know how hectic where his work can be from having worked there at one point. It does concern me and I will ask - I always do. I may have stuck through all of this BUT I have never gone without voicing my opinion and letting him know where I stand on different things. He knows when I am not happy about where our relationship is or isn't, etc. and he always says "it will be ok, we will work through this, our love is going to get us through all of these things until we can finally be together". I am sure you are rolling your eyes thinking HOW TYPICAL! So, I will see - my new term officially starts tomorrow so I will be too busy to really concern myself with tracking down answers from him so he will have to find it within himself to do it.
As for the getting red in the face and if pushed could get violent - he would be a very foolish man to go down that road with me and he knows it. I was also kind of relieved that he actually was angry because until that time I had not seen him angry. I guess I just took it as finally showing me that he was human around me even though our communication is excellent and even when we have words we discuss rather than argue and never fought. Both of us, of course, are schooled in communication and management of people and situations but there is still human nature when it comes to becoming angry and shows of emotion no matter how well schooled one is in methodology. Here is something really sad - he admits that the arguments between him and W are screaming matches and all H*ll breaks loose when they argue. MM says that all the schooling in the world doesn't help him when they go at it and he hates that it is that way (and he does accept blame for part of it).
Also, I put my XH in prison for abuse and I wouldn't hesistate to do the same to someone else and he knows this. He has made the mistake of setting off triggers of mine without knowing it, as we were getting to know one another, and found out that I don't react positively when that happens. He has been hit, grabbed and dropped to his knees on more than one occasion simply because he had a bad habit of grabbing my shoulder - not doing anything wrong, just grabbing my shoulder and being out of my sight range to know that he was coming or there. I used to go into an absolute frenzy but I have since worked through that (as much as one can). He was a very crucial part of working through some of those things for me. He knows my full history, everything about me including the secrets that I had never told anyone before in my life. I believe that he has done the same with me or at least a good portion of his history. He has lead a very easy life compared to what I have and he admits to that being part of the desire to be with me - he says he learns things from me and finally knows what true deep love actually is rather than superficial love - which I find strange.
You said that you feel that MM has more character flaws but that you would rather just drop it. Please don't hold back with what you are thinking. If I don't agree, I will tell you and why. Everyone has their flaws, including me - I know hard to believe right? HA HA HA. I feel kind of strange only relaying negatives when there were so many positives that lead to the A and me ultimately falling in love with this man. BUT maybe that is a good thing - makes me think about it and offers the opportunity for a third party just reading to give their impression and opinions, just as you have been doing with me for the last week or so. It makes me think and that is obviously something that I have been needing to do for a long time where this R is concerned. Although I am not stupid, I did fall into this thing unaware of what I was getting into simply because I never saw myself getting into this type of situation and now am dumbfounded at what to do. Things are beginning to become clearer now though.
I have been wanting to ask, are you currently in an A or M? Being new here I only see the advice that you give without knowing anything about your story or situation that brought you here. I know you said that if you were doing business with MM you would hold onto your purse because of your background of reading people and making predictions about what they will do and the characteristics they display - Are you in a mostly male corporation or does it just work out that you work with a lot of men? Just curious here since you have taken so much time to write back to me and offer your opinions and advice.
Well, now that I have written another lengthy post - Sorry!!!!! Tired of reading all of my BS yet? It is just kind of nice to have someone else to bounce this stuff off of - I am so thankful that I found this site when I did.
Have a great day!
Confused
I have to say I now feel sorry for his wife, I can see way she could be so screwed up and it is really not her fault.
I am not accusing MM of being a wife beater, I was just suggesting reasons she may have changed so suddenly, but it could the closeness of a past abuser that caused it to resurface.
I am going to take issue with you reasoning about it being unlikely that MM could be an abuser because of his job and the personality type required to do it, if you read the newspaper or take an interest in the news you will notice that with pain full regularity how many firefighters have been arrested for arson, cops for murder, nurses and doctors for murder, priests for child sex abuse ETC… being in that type of job offers no guarantee that a person will not offend if anything it seems to lead some people to offend.
The fact that his father had several affairs is interesting, I believe that a lot is programmed when we are growing up that we are not aware of, we often object strongly
About things other people do because we see the same things in are self and at some level and don’t like it. If he got cheating from his father he may need professional help to not become a repeat offender now that he has started down that road.
I did not roll my eyes I was to busy rolling around on the floor laughing my *ss off.
I seems to me when he talks to you like that he is treating you like an idiot.
As for screaming matches, they tend to require a complete relationship and lots of time together, a complete relationship is one thing that you never have when in an Affair, the old saying that you don’t really know someone tell you live with them is completely true.
Another saying I have heard is if you want to end an affair move in together, the stats prove that one.
I am married we have had a pretty rocky time of it over the last 24 years some good times and some bad.
There was a lot of emotional abuse on the part of my spouse that I used as a reason to have an A that is now over for just over 5 years, The A did more damage to me then the abuse I already felt like a worthless failure and selling out my principles only made it worse, but with some very good help and a lot of time the is abuse is mostly in the past and when it has resurfaced in the past I have dealt with effectively.
My spouse made the mistake of hitting me once, it was a mistake because I had studied self-defense when I was younger, and you can figure the rest out for yourself.
About 8-10 weeks ago I had a business dealing with a person that is 8 years younger then myself we got along very well and clearly liked each other in that way, I considered letting something happen, but reading the posts at this site and at the “other woman ending web site” board I got a good reminder of what I was letting myself in for and pulled back after several more visits to Mr. eye candies office.
The IT field is still dominated by men most of the executives are still men and because of it have to deal with men all the time, I can usually predict the decisions before they make them, it comes from instinct and experience combined I think, I can smell a rat (some one running a game before they know that I know), MM by the way you describe him and the things he says and does gives me that itch if you know what I mean.
Be careful how much you trust.
Were it comes to character flaws I was thinking how much MM reminded me of the men that I interacted with in 2 federal prisons I worked in more then twenty years ago as a contractor, real bad boys murders and rapists armed robbers, some of these guys I realize now share a lot of the same characteristics that the powerful excs that I have been dealing with in some fortune 500 companies, MM sounds like he has some personality treats in common with them also.
Having said that I must say most of the inmates were stupid as sin and uneducated but there were some note worth acceptations.
Needless to say I am wondering about the E-MAIL ANY RESULTS, good bad are indifferent.
I noticed your response to one of the posters, you said something I ask myself and others about entering into any relationship IS IT WORTH IT if you were to do a cost benefit analysis do the benefits out way the costs and the risks, I think that if things at home are ok and just need to be improved the answer is NO, I am glad you are thinking with your head following you heart more often then not is a mistake, not very romantic but true.
I am accepting nothing less the straight As from you on your school report card young lady.
FREE
Don't ever apologize for when you are or aren't able to get back with me - GEEZE! I appreciate that you take the time at all.
BTW - don't worry about my grades. I will gladly hand over my report card. My first degree came with honors and so far I have my 4.0 in tact for this degree as well - call me a perfectionist with rough edges. I do everything in my life with passion.
I knew that you wouldn't agree with the reasons I gave about MM not being an abuser BUT there are things that I cannot put here but having also come from a very volitile and abusive relationship, I just don't see that in him. I also know that this community would not allow him to be in the highly visible position of status in the community if there were any events that took place involving domestic violence of any sort. I have never felt any threat from him or felt the need to curb what I wanted to say. I am not saying that it isn't one of those behind closed doors secrets. I would just hope that I would have picked up on a character trait like that by now.
As for the yelling that MM and W do - I agree with what you said about not really knowing someone until you live with them and that arguing is part of what makes a relationship whole BUT they have two modes. Not speaking or yelling. They are not able to discuss anything any longer, admitted by him. He says their communication is almost nothing. I don't care how whole a relationship may be - I wouldn't want to live that way. How miserable is that?!!!!
He did not know about his dad's infidelities until he was a young adult in college. When he was telling me about it, I cried because it was so emotional for him to talk about. There were some things that were very scarring to him, risking his relationship with his dad all together. They were working on their relationship and had become close again before he recently passed away. We spent a lot of time together during all of that - I am just happy that he could come to me since his W just didn't care. She didn't even go to his funeral with him - what a W, huh?
The W - yes, there is a lot more than just the bad M going on there. I could probably write an entire book on the dysfunction of that family. I do not believe that is an excuse though for treating others like crap. She doesn't even try to be pleasant to be around people (not just me).
Your comment about when he talks to me like that.... and that you think he is treating me like an idiot really stung. When he says all of these things, whether in type, on the phone or in person it has always seemed sincere albeit however typical it may be for a MM in an A to say. Sometimes I think to myself that he means it because I deserve it but on the other hand I feel like maybe I am not deserving of being loved like I want to believe he loves me. I want to think that just because others in As have done these things and not meant them doesn't mean that it isn't sincere and that all I believe in is real and truly does exist between us. It is really confusing to me.
As for the email - HA HA HA wouldn't you know that the server for where he works went down and they were not able to access anything on their computers except what was individually networked on the local servers. Email was nonexistent. I did do my homework though and called the head division and asked about the problem with the main frame (sometimes it is nice to have worked with him because it means I can ask different things of different employees without question). It was confirmed that he was not lying and the server was down - they were hoping to have it fixed either today or tomorrow. There I lay things on the line and everything else possible gets in the way of me receiving the answers I am wanting. He did call and tell me about the server problems and that he wanted me to know so that I didn't think he wasn't responding to emails. I asked him about "the email" and he acknowledged getting it and said "baby, you already know what my answer is going to be to most of the questions that you asked but I will take care of it as soon as I can." I just said ok and that he needs to understand this isn't something he can just ignore. He just responded with... you know that I love you and I know what you need and I want to be the one to give that to you. He then got a call on his other line and the conversation ended.
I had to laugh at your corrolation of the traits of MM, corporate men and criminals in prison. I see your point but some of these traits are those of success as well. I am being a lot more cautious and taking the time to think about it all now and I wasn't before. I know of the type's of men that you are referring to and I can honestly say he does not come across that way on any level that I have ever witnessed. I think that part of my problem is that we were friends for so long before the A started that I have a hard time seeing any manipulation. The progress of our A was never uncomfortable nor did I ever feel like he changed when he decided that he wanted to have the A with me - it was all a very natural transition. I have to ask myself if the friendship was even true when I question the A because from that is what the R was built on. I just don't get any of it. All I ever wanted, just like anyone else, was to be loved for me - had even given up on the idea of relationships and WHAMMO the best friend that a person wants in their life comes to me with him and then turning into the love of my life. Just sucks I guess.
I did find out today just how angry I am with him about the baby, the W and what he had promised me and took away from me. I was told that a cousin of mine just found out his wife is pregnant and they are elated about it. Mind you, this cousin is 45 and his W is 41, second marriages for both. His first child - her second. When I was told I became so enraged at MM for all the pain that him and his W having this baby made me go through (I know, sounds very selfish). The fact that now I was not going to be having another child, which I had planned on having with him hit me like a ton of bricks all over again. I realize that until the ink is dry on D papers he would technically not be mine and I don't have any right to feel like I do but this was my future too, not just his. Could it still happen? Yes. Likelihood of it happening? Very little. Feels strange to cuss one's self for being selfish but yet being so angry about having something that was so important to one's self being yanked in a matter of seconds. It was a very emotional day for me, wrestling with all of those things. He is lucky that we had our conversation before I found out otherwise I don't know what I would have said.
So, on to another day. There will not be any contact between the two of us tomorrow and more than likely not on Friday either so I guess the rest of it will wait until then. As usual, I am the one waiting for what I ask for.
Have a great day!
Confused
A brief response some of us have to sleep.
You sound pissed, at me, or MM or yourself or all 3 I'm not sure.
Next I repeat I was not calling MM a wife abuser the first time are the second time, just pointing out what I saw as a flaw in your logic of why it was unlikely based on his JOB , so lets drop it.
And NO I still don't trust him , I have no emotion invested in him and gurl does not his ACTIONS are what speak to us not his words, words don't mean sh*t if there not backed by the right actions and his actions are saying something different from his words.
Question for you ::I things are that BAD between MM and his wife why were they haveing SEX.
Well there are those annoying ACTIONS again right.
I don't imagine they were yelling at each other when the baby was being made DO YOU.
I am sorry you had a bad day and have no desire to make it worse, But the rose colored glasses your wareing are clouding your vision.
His wife may be nuts I don't know but she has managed to hold on to him , she could not have done that with out his help.
The idiot statement was meant to convay the idea that he is condesending in the manor he talks to you like there is no way you can control the relationship or leave it if he does not want it over, he is confident that he is in control, IS HE RIGHT??
When I piss people off I like to do a good job of it or whats the point.
Nighty night
FREE
I apologize for any impression that I gave that I was angry at you. As I said towards the end of my post, I had a very emotional day and I guess that came through - did not intend on offending or making you think it was you that I was upset with. Yes, I am angry both with myself and with him as well as an entire world of emotions that I have been feeling this last couple of weeks.
I know that you don't trust MM - I don't trust him now either - I am just not quite sure why. He didn't lie - he didn't do anything that he didn't have a right to do, afterall I am nothing more than the OW no matter what it was that he said to me.
I realize that they were not fighting at the moment they were having sex. But that does not mean that their M is a good one. She had sex with him once in 6 months - I don't find that as being a loving and intimate relationship. She didn't want a child - this was an inconvenience to her life. She went back to work shortly after the baby was born and he is the one that stayed home until he felt that the baby was old enough to go to daycare. Also, when he ended our A until the time he wanted me back in his life, he said that through the entire pregnancy she would not have sex with him and that I had been the last one he was with. By that time it had been 7+ months and he would have no reason to lie about that since our relationship was ended at that point. It was volunteered information from him. Besides, he told me point blank that he still loves his wife so I am not so diluted that feel there is NOTHING there and it is just me that he cares about.
And, maybe your right - maybe every bit of it has been a lie and none of it is what it seems. But to accept that I have to accept that I was nothing more than a piece of *ss and that after this period of time I still wasn't able to find someone that actually cared about and loves me instead of what I could give them and personally, I don't want to believe that I am that worthless.
Again, I just want to let you know that you didn't piss me off. You make me think and you tell it like it is and those are traits that I appreciate in people. Just because something isn't what I want to hear doesn't mean that it isn't true. I have had rose colored glasses on for a long time now with regard to this R and some things are going to be painful for me to read or accept - that doesn't mean that I am so irresponsible with my feelings that I would be angry with anyone at this site. I came here for support in what was going on and understanding - I am not about to allow myself to become angry with those that take the time to give me that support.
I hope you have a better day than what I had or am already having today. Maybe I should force myself to take a day and just sleep because I am feeling really cranky and emotionally out of control.
Have a great day!
Confused
Another bright and cold day here in the northland.
Just a quicky work is calling.
I did not say everything he told you was a lie, just more that it was not real if that makes sense a nice fantasy that made him feel better about him, built up his EGO in a way his wife may not.
As to there sex life, unless you have a hidden camera in there bedroom you do not really know what goes on there, when thingswere really bad for between me and my mate we did nothave sex for over 1 year , This sort of number is not as unusual as you may think ,read enough posts and you come across it a lot.
A common thing that men/women do when in an A is to exagerate the degree of the problems there haveing and not to say to much when things go well.
A lie of omission is still a lie and much harder to catch.
Sex once in six months with a low sperm count = baby possable but not likely.
No one can make you worthless but you , do your children think your worthless, I think not, If you free yourself to I for one believe that you can and will meet a suitable S/M to love you for who you are not what you have to offer.
Again if you have been reading other posts you know that most of the MM seem to want to get back or hang onto what they had/have and have little concern about the womans feelings but rather exploit them.
I have to point out that the info he volunteered served him well in getting back into your life and bed, it also protected him form commiting to you(loves his wife and baby).
Confused I know that you are a smart responsible woman , but I think you need to stop rationalizeing, the facts are he is married and the facts are that very few men leave there wife for the other woman and if you add in the baby she has an iron grip on him, stronger I hope then the one he has on you.
HERE IS ANOTHER WEB SITE from sweet69 it is worth a read
http://www.wordscapes.net/men-affairs.htm
HAVE A BETTER DAY
FREE
Well, this conversation seems fairly private but I'll insert my 2 cents in here anyway, in case you want another point of view.
I didn't read all of the posts on this thread (I don't have that much time) but I read some of them.
You're clearly intelligent and educated and open-minded. You would be able to tell if he was using you for a sex toy, only to toss you aside and then play manipulative games with you only to feed his ego. Unlike Free, I don't think this guy is purposefully leading you on or deceiving you. I think he is genuinely confused and that he truly does care about you, and that his marriage clearly has serious issues which aren't resolving. (And by the way, how the heck do people with a marriage like that - and a woman who doesn't want children - manage to adopt a child?????)
This doesn't mean you aren't getting hurt in the process, or that the statistics that Free likes to quote are untrue. They are true, and if you put any more stock in what your MM is telling you, certainly you will get hurt. Because it's not very likely that he will leave his children and marriage, no matter what he says to you. My point, though, is that I don't think he's a horrible person who is out to deceive you. I think he is a confused person who is unhappy, who is trying to find a way to change that, and who has no idea how to go about it.
Maybe that doesn't change the outcome, but I hope it will give you a little more faith in yourself and in your own judgement.
Best of luck to you.
I am even more confused now and I don't even know what to say to your response. Your right, his offered information did serve him well. I do have to wonder though why some of the things that he has told me, about the sex issue, problems in the M, etc. he has also told others (at least one person). I know this because one of the men that has been asking me out works with him. Under the impression that MM and I are good friends, he has talked with me because of his concern for MM. Not everything has been repeated but the misery surely has. I guess, if nothing else, I make him feel good about him even if it doesn't matter what all of it does to me. This is so screwed up.
Yes, I know the likely hood of the baby with all of the factors considered isn't likely but all I can do is hope that he is being honest with me about it. Believe me, if I could just close my eyes and wake up with it all gone, I would.
I have been reading other posts, as you suggested, and yes the sexual theme is quite frequent. But I have also seen that a lot of the people here genuinely care about the people they are having an A with. Yes, I know, most have no intentions on leaving their SO's for the individual they are having the A with.
Maybe my panic is because I know it can't continue or really don't want it to end because of how I feel about him and I desperately want to believe what he says but yet somewhere in my subconcious I know......
I don't know anymore. I just want to crawl under a rock.
Thanks for taking the time even when work is pressing.
Confused
Thank you for your response. This conversation isn't private, it just ended up FREE and I continuing the dialogue between the two of us. I appreciate another point of view. That is why I came here, in hopes of learning from all of those here that have experience with this.
In response to your question about the adoption - it was not a traditional adoption. The son was being raised by another member of the family other than the mother due to legal reasons. He started hanging around MM due to living close by and MM took the time to help him, knowing the problems he was having thus becoming very close to him. The family member wanted to move and knew that the boy would rather be with MM and they discussed MM adopting him and raising him as his own since he was the only father figure that this boy knew. It took 3 years in the courts between the mother and family member and all of the technical aspects of turning over a child that is not a blood relative but he stayed with MM and his W throughout the entire time. The son does still see his natural mother (which is a sore spot for W because he won't call her "Mom") if he requests it because of how old he already was when this all happened. That is how it came about. The adoption really had nothing to do with traditional means - was more that MM and him had built a relationship that they were not willing to give up because this boy had already been through so many traumatic events in his life. W agreed because he was an older child. W and the son have a good relationship. Now, here is the sick part - MM and I were already in the A before the adoption was final. In fact, he was with me on the day that the final papers granting them full custody came through and I helped him get everything taken care of to put the son on MM's insurance, etc.
I do appreciate that you feel that there is a possibility that MM does actually care for me because I am obviously questioning everything right now. I don't feel that he is just using me for a sex toy because emotionally we were already invested in one another just in our friendship alone. We laugh and cry together, talk about everything from A-Z and don't have any boundaries that I am aware of as to what is on and off limits or at least that was the way it used to be. Now with the new baby and the length of time we were apart, it changed things. Obviously there is more at risk and I have been more than critical of the whole situation because of the pain that it caused me. I don't know if what he is telling me is true, lies, manipulation or just simply that he missed me and loves me and S**t happened that brought obstacles in our way preventing us from pulling through with our plans. As I have told FREE, it is just all too confusing to me because I have never felt this way about anyone before, he says the same thing but here we are.
Thank you for making me feel a little better about things - what you say makes perfect sense just like what FREE says makes perfect sense. Amazing how it can all be so different but still have every bit of validity as anything else.
Confused
I am wondering if all this posting is not getting to be to much for you, debating with me dealing with MM and now school?
You sound tired, perhaps sleeping at night would help.
Contrary to what anyone may think I do not think of MM as the devil , but as a man involved in an Affair, and being typical about it doing what it takes to keep the good thing he has (YOU) and that does normaly include lieing and manipulation to some degree.
I never suggested that you were a sex toy, you are a well rounded person and that is attractive to many men (as you should know by now).
Were it comes to reading the posts that is a good idea,The women involved clearly get there emotions involved big time. The men tell the women what they need to here to be happy the women want to believe it and repeat it on the posts for that reason.The funny thing is that husbands do the same thing all the time so it seems to be a natural male response to emotional preasure from the women in there lifes, the long and the short of it is that it maintanes the status que.
The stats are what they are, the ownly unbiased info there is take it are leave it.
::::"Maybe my panic is because I know it can't continue or really don't want it to end because of how I feel about him and I desperately want to believe what he says but yet somewhere in my subconcious I know......"::::
I agree with the above statement.
Have you got an answer to your E-MAIL yet, I will make one last suggestion , accept nothing but cold hard answers , no emotional blah blah.
It seems to me mybe you need to take a break from the board or just this thread for a while.
There is nothing under the rock believe me I spent a couple of years looking.
Let me know what you think.
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