Any success stories?
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| Fri, 07-30-2010 - 3:34pm |
As some might know, I experienced DD with AP about 1 week and a half ago.
It's been a very rocky road since then. His behavior has been erratic. Everything I KNOW to be true has been in the air, questioning.
Briefly last week we were falling into the pattern of reconciliating. And what was said to me, led me to believe that we were still on track to be together, only were taking it a different way after being discovered. This dialog was helpful for me to wrestle the issues that came up when he chose her, not me. (Still trying to wrap my head around that since the evidence that I know of is so overwhelmingly in my favor. I even said to him that this should be a no-brainer choice.) Anyway, all dialog stopped when his wife found evidence that we were not doing NC.
What I know to be true is that that his marriage is, has been broken for a long time and that he would be going to MC to confirm that it really was broken, (or be surprised that there was something there to save.) But he can't do this process properly if I'm still in the picture.
I understand this intellectually. I need to move on because I don't need to wait around for a process that is going to take an unknown period of time, especially since it could turn out that they will try to save the marriage and I will be left out in the cold.
Letting go is a different thing. He is consumed in my thoughts. I want to not care and take a hard stance. I know there will be another movement toward getting close to me, but I want to find the strength to turn him away and tell him that I'm "waiting to matter enough that he gets off the fence".
I want him with every fiber of my being. She is very manipulative and twists his emotions. I always kept him grounded, even in matters that were not related to our relationship. Without my influence, he is easily persuaded into agreeing to things that don't match his own feelings. I guess there is nothing I can do, and he needs to find his own strength.
But I got this nagging idea that it will end, and he will seek me out. Don't know how long it can take, but I can't imagine anyone can stay married under the conditions she imposes on him, especially now that he cheated for a second time in his marriage.
Anyway, does anyone have any success stories after months/years of NC?
AND by the way, we don't have strict NC since we work very closely together. It's impossible actually. It makes moving on all the harder.
PS: People say just to move on, there are other fish in the sea that are completely available to me. True, true.
But, I have never had a more emotionally fulfilling relationship in my entire life. It wasn't because it was forbidden. It was because the level of soul-bearing honesty we had with each other. I tell him things that I was afraid to tell anyone else, and vice-versa. It was a level of safety and comfort unmatched in any relationship I ever had, even when I was married. This level of closeness, I believe only comes once in a lifetime. I've lost it now. L(

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I don't have a success story to tell... just wanted to send some cyber ((HUGS)) because reading your post, I understand what you feel you've lost. You know, you may or may not have that again...with AP or anyone else for that matter. I try very hard to look at my A from a "don't cry because it's over...smile because it happened" stance...it helps me get past that panic I feel over a similar connection I feel with AP.
Sounds like, hard as it is, you just need to focus on you right now...do some things that broaden your own horizons and see what comes your way. I KNOW you don't feel like it, and it's going to feel so forced at first...you'll have to make a conscious decision to just plow through. Who knows what the future holds, and you'll drive yourself BATTY trying to wait for it OR figure it out. Take care of you and get your own life going w/o him and if he falls back in it later, and you have room...great. You may find yourself in such a diff place, that he doesn't "fit" anymore...
Take care...it's going to be HARD...I know. But YOU CAN DO IT...
"don't cry because it's over...smile because it happened"
Wow!
He says that he will not stay in a relationship that is not fulfilling, but he must go through this process, the MC and the intense talking with her, without me in the wings. (other wise my presence undermines the whole process.)
The problem I have is that I am not sure I believe him.
He was a very weak, broken man when he met her. When you have been in a relationship for many years, no matter how you are NOW, you tend to fall back into old patterns of the past. Mix that with a long history, children, intermingled finances and it becomes hard.
I too was in a relationship that was unfulfilled. I knew for many years that it wasn't going to work out, yet I stayed. It took awhile for me to end it. Having an EA helped motivate me into knowing that there is so much more out there.
He has said to me that I have raised his standards for a relationship, and what it should be. That I have opened his mind to possibilities in life that he had suppressed long ago. (Things like travel, food; a lot of things that she isn't open to.)
But she seems to be very, very good at manipulating him. I'm just having trouble having faith that he will be able to expedite himself from her shackles, or worse, recognize her for what she is. Part of being under the influence of a control freak is not being able to see that they are a control freak, and not being able to recognize when your own thoughts are being substituted for theirs. It requires personal therapy, to have the courage to exercise your inner thoughts, and not have your inner thoughts remolded into what they would have you believe.
I have provided a copy of all of our joint emails, and our chat logs, since he was forced to delete them. (He said he really wanted to have those.) I hope that rereading them will help solidify the difference between "his" feelings, and the feelings she would like him to have. I bought him an audio book; "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay" for him to listen to, so he can maintain his resolve. I have asked him to share his thoughts with a third party, that isn't me, so he has someone to validate his thoughts. (She would invalidate his thoughts and make him believe he was nuts.) He is keeping a journal. Lastly, I have encouraged him to seek personal counseling.
What I really hopes happen, is that MC results in the counselor telling them there isn't anything left to salvage.
Part of the reason he is doing this (according to him) is so that he can have an ameniable coparenting post-divorce relationship, if they go that way. She's convinced that MC is all that they need and that I was the cause of their marriage problems. He has told her that I was a symptom of the problem and that things were broken before he even met me. Hopefully MC sorts that out and he follows his heart. And, that he reads his own words in our chats.
As far as compatibility, other than dealing with her, he is a very strong assertive person. Him and I have SO MUCH in common that we joke about being twins separated at birth. It's just the opposite with them; the only thing they have in common is their children. That's why I'm so shocked that what should be an easy choice, is not.
Edited 7/31/2010 6:32 am ET by goddess_artemis
I divorced my husband during our EA, right before our PA began. We talked about moving in together, coparenting my child and his kids, together, taking care of each other when we are old. I have the chat and email transcripts too. Oh... and I'm so tempted to send it to her so she knows what he said. But that would betray him and one of my saving graces in this whole fiasco is my grace under fire. She does not handle information well. She is judgmental and punitive. One of my arguments with him is that I have demonstrated the character to not burn-bridges and do crazy stuff under these circumstances. I have instead, always created a safe haven for communication, no matter what the content. It proves that he can talk to me, and be open, and not have to hide who he is, or conceal unpleasant thoughts. Something he has done with her for years. BTDT in my former marriage. It's hard to do that, and it is soul crushing. It takes away intimacy in a relationship. And those little lies said, just to avoid being punished for something stupid and trivial, to avoid hassle, though without significance in the small scheme, do put a bridge between a couple. I tried to give him the tools to recognize the difference.
He's a good man, a great man in fact. But being fully in tune with feelings and anything related to that, is his biggest weakness. We have made a lot of progress and I was within a month or so of her leaving him, until she found out about me. Now suddenly she wants to fight for the marriage. I know he is dong this because of her. And from his point of view, if he wants custody of his kids without a huge heart-wrenching battle, he has to abide by her way and do the MC.
From reading your posts, it sounds like you are so worried that she will manipulate his thoughts in a way that will make him start agreeing with what she says - like he has so little will of his own that what she wants him to think will be what he thinks? If he is that weak minded, then what chance does he have of ever thinking for himself?
I do agree that it would be good for him to get individual counseling. However I would give him more credit about deciding what he really wants. If he chooses her and his marriage, it could be because he likes a controlling person; maybe it satisfies some sort of psychological need he has to have someone else make all the decisions. All of us have different backgrounds and upbringing, and sometimes what appears to be dysfunctional just works for whatever holes we have in ourselves.
Try to have faith that he will decide what's best for him. Don't count on his return to you - nothing is guaranteed. If he does choose his wife, I wouldn't think that it was from some sort of "mind manipulation" on her part, I would just accept that his psyche is OK with his marital relationship, and that maybe the counselor found something to fix after all.
I feel badly for you having to go through this time - I know it's scary and hard to possibly lose the person you love. But if he really loves you, if he really realizes everything you say he's come to realize, then you will be together after it's over. If not, then maybe he's not the person you think he is. You have to realize that no one can really manipulate him like you imagine - he will decide what he wants, and you'll have to live with it. Good luck goddess. Keep us updated.
You've got a lot of choices. If getting out of bed in the morning is a chore and you're not smiling on a regular basis, try another choice. ~Steven D. Woodhull
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You've
A lot of what you say is true.
He has told me that his encounters with her, where he's trying to express himself... well that she twists his words, and that the encounter usually goes badly. That what he comes at her to say, ends up not being what ends up being said. At the time, I told him that he should keep a set of bullet points for his thoughts, handy. And then review them on a regular basis, so that when push comes to shove, he has that ready, on the tip of his tongue. That conversation was rather recent, but before d-Day. I don't know if he did that.
I do know that his actions do not reflect all the words and actions directed at me for the past few years. I also know his actions do not reflect what people on the ground (coworkers) see about our relationship. They see two people madly, madly in love, perfect for each other, with an excellent compatibility and dynamic. They are in shock that he threw me under the bus, so to speak. So you can imagine how I feel.
Even before d-Day, he told me he was open to MC if it meant that she could gracefully accept that they are just too different to continue. I don't know, can't know if that is still his intention. I do know that he has maintained that he still loves me very much, that everything he said about our future together he meant but that this is a process that he feels he must go through to be absolutely sure that he is leaving his marriage because it is broken, not because I'm there. He is adamant about keeping those issues separate. I don't know how you can. I have shown him that he can expect (and deserves) a lot more out of a relationship than he has had in his marriage. I have trouble believing that he would settle for less after all we have talked about, and all said.
And I know many APs feel their relationship is special. They also make a lot of the shortcomings of BS. But many, many third-parties, who didn't know for sure we were in a relationship have commented on her obvious short-comings. From what I know, she really doesn't "add" to the relationship, only subtract from it. And it's a hard pill to swallow that he may possibly accept these short-comings after all the progress we made in terms of his own realizations and emotional health.
ADDED to SAY: We had a long talk about listening to ones gut. I told him that his gut reaction right after d-day was that he wanted to be with me. It was only later, after having heart-wrenching conversations with her that he decided to do MC and go NC with me during the process.
When I told him I question everything we shared and he said as a lie, he asked me, "What does your gut tell you." My gut tells me he was telling me the truth. He said, "Then go with it." I told him, "Why do you ask me to go with my gut, but you, on the other hand do not." He said, "I give good advice, not take good advice."
Edited 7/31/2010 9:00 am ET by goddess_artemis
I think you are overestimating the strength of his personality.
{{I do really apologize if this hurts your feelings, but I kept noticing this trend in your posts and I wanted to point it out. You are always urging him to be really self-analytical and to get feedback from others, so I thought you might want the same for yourself. If you are too sad now, though, by the break up for this sort of introspection, I apologize.}}
Point taken.
The information that I didn't share is what he has told to me over the course of only the past few months.
He told me that HE doesn't know his own mind. That he has been so disconnected from his emotions for so long that he has trouble accessing the information his gut tells him, and processing it.
EDITED TO ADD THIS PARA:
He also said when he talks to her, she spins him around in circles so much that he "loses" in the conversation and doesn't get his point across.
When we engaged in our relationship, I sometimes found him very cold and without emotion. I ended it with him because of that and told him that I couldn't be involved with someone who was going to turn it off like a switch. He reengaged me with vigor and tried desperately to tap into his feelings.
In the past few months he has sent me emails praising me for helping him access feelings that he had forgot he had. For helping make him strong. He said that without my help sorting through things, he wouldn't have had the strength to stand up for himself and for his own needs, and would have caved in, once again, to unreasonable demands.
He said he needs IC to help him sort through this, because obviously he cannot lean on me to do this. (Even though I have been there to help him through a lot of other stuff that is unrelated to our relationship.) That is why I urged him to share with a friend, something he never does. NOT EVER.
One of his problems is he is a chronic procrastinator. And knowing this about him, I know he has not made an appointment for IC yet, only MC. That is why I gave him the information that I have. I know he is saving it in a safe place where it can't be read by her.
It was his idea to keep a journal so he can "own" his own thoughts, and know they are his, not hers being put into his head. Must be a scary place to be to not know where your mind begins and someone else's starts, but that is how he portrayed his situation. So I have encouraged him to reread whatever he has written down, just to stay connected to himself.
Does that explain things better?
Edited 7/31/2010 5:39 pm ET by goddess_artemis
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