Can it be too normal?

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-20-2010
Can it be too normal?
15
Wed, 03-24-2010 - 10:35am

Even when if feels normal, it never really is.

I just spent 2 nights with my AP on a business trip. We had a lovely time together. Dinner alone; dinner with colleagues; private time; sharing a bed; being affectionate; being quiet; being normal.

We said goodbye this morning, both of us feeling happy. In some ways, it feels easy and simple; it feels normal. I enjoy feeling normal with her, but at some level, I know that it's not normal. We say goodbye and she's heading home to her real normal; her H and her Son...and me to my W and my son (to an extent).

As much as I enjoy feeling normal, I also don't want it to feel too normal. If it feels too normal, it'll just continue with no prospect for change. She doesn't worry about a future; she wants to enjoy today. I understand that and enjoy all of the time we get, but if it gets too normal, where's it going?

As happy and comforted I feel right now, there are days where I feel destined to be no more than her AP. I just can't imagine that ever being fully acceptable.

MPV

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-24-2009
Wed, 03-24-2010 - 11:35am

I completely understand.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-25-2008
Fri, 03-26-2010 - 12:47am

MPV


Can relate to your posts on many levels.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-20-2010
Fri, 03-26-2010 - 10:43am

crazy2,

Thanks for your reply. There is a lot of truth in what you wrote.

There have been times when my AP wanted more from the relationship than I was able to give her. She was miserable in her marriage and clearly wanted out; and wanted to be with me. We had a few struggles through those times. It's a long story, but in many of the ways she was approaching me, it was clear that she was struggling with "daddy issues" and some feelings that remained from her parents divorce. I just couldn't accept her trying to transfer those feelings on to me and needed her to deal with that stuff before we could ever move forward. We managed to maintain our A though the ups and downs.

I moved out of my home 2+ years ago and at one point she told me she asked her H to move out, but he never did. It's another thing that confuses me. If she wants more from me, she can have it, but I really need her to make some moves with her M; time will tell if she will or not. I don't expect anything to happen soon, but it would be nice to see something. As you can tell, I don't want to be in an A for 15 - 20 years. I know it probably seems crazy (aren't we all), but I really want a committed, monogamous relationship (my A is monogamous...no sex with W and from all I know, my AP is not sexual with her H).

I think a lot of where she is at is also still a reaction to her having been diagnosed with cancer a few years ago and the fear that created for her; especially related to her son. Which I totally understand.

There is no doubt that she is better at compartmentalizing things than I am. I simply can't do it. As an example, from everything I can tell she feels very little, if any, guilt over our A. She seems to have no trouble lying to her H and isn't the least bit worried about being discovered. I absolutely hate the dishonesty; it's not something I can be comfortable with. Now, all of this might change if, heaven forbid, she was ever discovered.

In essence, I agree with what you are saying. My AP has clearly compartmentalized things in her M and our A. I truly believe that she and her H have a friendly, co-parenting relationship and that she gets the care, love and intimacy from me. For her, the two relationships combined are keeping her comfortable. Honestly, when we are together, I know that she simply sees it as normal. I don't know what she'd do if I were to leave our A, but I don't believe her M would give her all that she wants. I also don't know what her reaction will be when I move to a D, but I don't expect it to have any immediate effect.

I care about her and our R, so I am working on getting comfortable again in the "normalcy". I don't want to be a source of constant nagging and pushing for me. I am content, for the time being, to be supportive of her and to thoroughly enjoy the time we get together.

MPV

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-11-2009
Sat, 03-27-2010 - 12:55am

Hi MPV,


I have been wondering something (and forgive me if you have explained it before and I just missed it).

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2008
Sun, 03-28-2010 - 2:52pm

You are separated for 2 years and still havent filled for D ,why so? There has to be reason not to.Exactly the same there has to be something which is stopping your AP from taking any step regarding her M.
"it would be nice to see something. " Just to make you feel nice,she is not gonna D !!

" I don't want to be in an A for 15 - 20 years. " Then get a D ,end your M once for all and be a free man.If your AP takes any step further then go for it else you are free to date around.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-07-2009
Sun, 03-28-2010 - 8:52pm

So so true aliveagain--once I was in an A my M was over and I never looked back. I think when a woman is done and has checked out of the M there usually is no going back.

I am this close to finalizing my Divorce and I can't wait. I'm excited and have never looked back. I adore my lover who is married and expect things to continue as they are for now. I am grateful he is in my life he is my best friend and I do not want to be without him...I go out with friends often and I have yet to come across any single guy who compares...he is my best friend and never makes me feel second. I love him :)

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-20-2010
Tue, 03-30-2010 - 11:20am

Hi aliveagain09,

Thanks for your reply and questions. Work has been kicking my butt a little, so it's been difficult for me to find time to respond. I have a bunch to say, but not much time at the moment.

It's true, my W and I are living separately, but neither has been pushing very hard to get a D. It's only recently that I've really come to the realization that a D is inevitable and trying hard to get prepared for that. I've posted about it a bit before, and even though I know our M needs to end, it's not been easy for me to get to that place.

I think we tend to want to understand the behaviors of men and women generically, but it is rarely that simple. As a simple example, while you moved to a divorce when your were unhappy, how many women remain in unhappy, unfulfilling marriages with or without having an A? I don't believe my AP is happy in her M; why does she stay?

In my case, the issues run pretty deep. At my core, I am a caretaker. The well-being, happiness, health and satisfaction of my partner is important to me. This might seem strange for a man that has been involved in an A for the last 5 years, but I can't 'just leave' my W. Even though I know my M needs to end, I still feel a great deal of love for my W. There are aspects of a D that are really troubling to me; like the feeling that I'd be deserting her and our son. I am working through those feelings and getting to a place where I know that a D would be liberating to her as well. As I have said before, as much as I have been involved in this A, I know how unfair it has been to my W, and my AP's H. We can all rationalize it as something for ourselves, but the truth is that it's not the right way to deal with the issues in our M's. I am sure that there are women on this forum that have felt that they cope better and feel happier in their M when they are active in an A ( I have felt that way, and I am sure my AP feels that way ). How can that be appropriate?

I think it is important to try to understand who your AP is in his heart and what has held him in his marriage. Do they have kids? I don't think the separation from one's S, is enough for everyone to move forward to D (it's taken me 2 1/2 years to work through some of my issues ). I know two couples that live apart, without A's ( I assume ) that seem to be having very happy M's. All of the other issues like finances, friends, feelings of failure, all come into play for men ( and women I am sure ) when facing a divorce.

I know that a lot of people will point to fear, but perhaps it is really more a question of the balance of pain and pleasure ( which has been discussed on the board before ). I don't think that is all that unusual for anyone. I have often thought that my AP is content waiting either to learn that her H is having an A or for him to discover ours. It's not easy to own up to the pain you will cause someone, I know that it isn't for me. I am working on getting there.

MPV

BTW...I wonder how many MW having A's would be hurt to learn that their H's were also having an A. I believe strongly that my AP would be very hurt to learn that and would likely use it has a lever to leave her M.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-20-2010
Tue, 03-30-2010 - 2:22pm

Funky...

OUCH.

Actually you are right. It is time to move this forward toward a D. I know that and am working through the crap that keeps me in it; see my earlier response. It's hard for me to argue that I am not a callous person, I mean having an A certainly seems callous, but at my core, I care.

I also agree with your comment about my AP. There is clearly something that is causing her to stay in her M. For her, I believe very strongly that it is related to her son. My AP's parents were divorced when she was young and I think it created a difficult relationship between her and her Father ( and her Mother ). I sometimes sense that she is worried that the same would happen for her son and his Father, so she is content to simply allow her M to be what it is (co-parenting and a "family" as much as it can be). As I've said before, in many ways, I am sure that I give her things that her H doesn't. The two relationships taken together, make her comfortable. Which is a tad scary to me.

Right now, I am mostly comfortable with things with my AP. It's a struggle at times, but I am getting back to a point where I accept it for what it is and that she does love me. My emotions are involved, but at this point what can I do?

I admit that I am little nervous about what moving forward with a D will mean to the A. I don't honestly know if it will provoke some action in my AP, or quite frankly, if the A will continue. I've been very interested in reading stories of SW involved with MM ( including those that remain in an A after a D ). I don't think I will be in a big hurray for my AP to make a move after my D, but then I can't honestly say how comfortable the situation will be for me. I agree with some of the posts I've seen on this. I know that I love my AP and enjoy our involvement. Right now, I can't imagine finding someone else, or wanting to, but I do NOT look forward to being single while, and if, she remains M. Then again, all of that really all depends upon how much time we make for ourselves, but that is true even today.

MPV

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2008
Tue, 03-30-2010 - 2:49pm

If she is staying in her M for her son,then I promise, this is not applicable "The two relationships taken together, make her comfortable." I bet,she is a mess.She may not let you see that,tell you straight or accept to herself BUT she is as unhappy as one can be.In her bid to give a father to her son,she is sacrificing herself and a future she may have with you or someone else.

If you believe she is in love with you,then you are not making her life comfortable,rather more miserable than she already is.
It sounds like you believe you know your AP but I guess not so much!

If she can stay unhappy in a M for her son,then she might ever stay in it,even if you were single and ready to move on,she might let you go as this is not about her,its about her son.This is just my POV ,seeing in from outside.I do hope you get her but I doubt so.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-20-2010
Tue, 03-30-2010 - 3:01pm

Funky...

I have to run out, but please say more about this.

<>

I am fascinated with your point of view. I have more to say on the subject myself and will post later when I get back home.

BTW, her son is 7 or 8 years old ( let's say 8 ). I don't know if that matters much, but a part of me thinks that many people stay in M's until their kids graduate HS, believing that it will hurt less (this was in a prior post). I don't know why that seems true. Personally, I think that is just a rationalization that allow one to put off a decision that they know they'd rather not make ( and face the hurt that they will cause ). So for my AP, when I think she believes that, I simply figure it gives her a reason and a timeline ( 10+ years ) over which she doesn't have to worry about facing the prospect of getting a D. Does that make sense at all?

MPV

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