Love vs. Sex

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-03-2003
Love vs. Sex
18
Wed, 09-17-2003 - 10:26am
I've been thinking about something this week and I wanted to bounce it off of you all. MM and I haven't had IC yet, just a few kisses. When we get physical, he gets scared and backs off for a while. But he has no problem saying he loves me. (Points to eye, then heart, then me...doesn't actually say the words.) I can't even insinuate it back to him because I'm trying not to admit to myself I'm in love with him. Yet kissing him didn't make me feel guilty... Telling him I love him would. Is that normal? Is it harder for women to say those words in this situation, yet not as hard to get physical? Or is it just me...

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: lilah_iv
Wed, 09-17-2003 - 10:47am
good morning lilah. i started this A as fwbs only. but as time has gone on, 3 years+, we have developed much deeper emotions/attachment than we ever thought possible. so i haven't been in your situation because the sex came first, but i do know that even now that we've both admitted we love each other, it's still hard to say those words to each other. it's only happened twice in the last three months. and we don't feel guilty saying the words or doing the actions.

jmho, but i think you're both scared to get in too deep with this A so you're holding back physically and emotionally. once you make the leap to IC, the deeper connection will take ahold of the R and it will become a more serious situation. be careful. if that's what you want from this R, then go for it. if not, if it's just fun and games, flirting and kissing a little, keep it at that level.

take care,

gurl

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-30-2003
In reply to: lilah_iv
Wed, 09-17-2003 - 11:27am
I maybe from another planet or something but here is my take on it. Getting physical for me would be one step more than just saying the words I love you. We all tend to think that sex can be had outside of love just for lust but we forget that feelings do develop overtime. Its hard to be intimate with somebody any not feel anything towards them, even if it cannot be classified as love. Think of two persons in FWB situation, why do they remain with their partners even if there is no explicit declaration of love? They care enough to want each others company and feel that sense of commitment that they don’t leave that situation even if they see temptation walk past them. This is because they know the other person intimately than that whiff of temptation. LOL You can try to deny the connection but it plays into you psyche unconsciously. jmho
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-03-2003
In reply to: lilah_iv
Wed, 09-17-2003 - 12:56pm
When this first started, he wound me around his little finger. He had me walking around in a trance, so madly infatuated with him I couldn't see straight. I started becoming more and more miserable in my M, even though it's not an unhappy one. But then jealousy kicked in and he backed off and I was devastated. Went through days of just major PAIN. At some point I backed off too and I've been backed off ever since. I do see what you all mean about the physical creating the emotional -- the kissing got me wrapped up in him again. But kissing sent him into another attack of guilt and he backed off again. Now during these back off times, we're still in contact, he's just suddenly extremely "busy." (In other words, he doesn't have the urgency to get to his desk at our designated times as he does during happier times.) But this week we've gotten back to the steamy phone conversations and he's saying he wants to kiss again. I just to this day haven't been able to figure out why the kissing didn't really bother me. It did, but not as much as it should have. He's fighting his urge to do something physical as much as I'm fighting getting caught up in him emotionally again. It's just interesting that we're fighting the same battle on different levels. I can't bring myself to jump back in. I think about him all the time, but I refuse to let myself imagine us together someday or fantasize about him in any way. It was fun fantasizing, but I feel like if I can just hold myself outside of it, it won't hurt so badly when he starts to back away. It's not possible to do that, is it? He asked me yesterday if we had the opportunity to be alone, would I make love with him. I said "Maybe" but I really was on the side of "No." Not yet. I'm just not ready to give him all of me knowing he'll probably get a case of the guilts again. Are you saying that once we actually made love, he wouldn't be like this anymore because he'd be more connected to me then? Or that I wouldn't be able to hold my own emotions back? Or both?
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-18-2003
In reply to: lilah_iv
Wed, 09-17-2003 - 1:35pm
Why should you SAY those words when all he does is mime them???? If you want to reciprocate, perhaps you could point to yourself and then hold up two fingers (as in "me too"). You say you don't want to say I love you because that would be admitting to yourself that you do love him, but you already have admitted it to yourself! So, I think you just don't want to say, "I love you" when he only mimes it. That is my opinion...
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-03-2003
In reply to: lilah_iv
Wed, 09-17-2003 - 2:23pm
Actually, that's my fault. I said way back in June that I thought saying "I love you" would be crossing the line. At the time all we were doing was flirting and soon after, having steamy phone conversations. He told me pretty early on that his feelings for me were more than just about flirting and I thought maybe he was insinuating he was falling in love with me, but I thought, "Nah, it's too early." Then one day I was on the phone with him talking about my friend's kids and I said, "They just love me" and he said, "They aren't the only ones." I gasped and said I couldn't believe he'd said that and he said, "What? Is that crossing the line?" I told him I thought it was, but I kind of insinuated I felt the same way. And at the time I was pretty sure I did. That's when I was all caught up in him. But now, after being hurt twice by him because of his guilt, I'm just unable to say it. To me, it seems that I should be 100% sure I mean it if I say it and I'm just not sure right now. He told me early on that if he hadn't actually said the words to me and we got discovered and she asks if he ever told me he loved me, he could say, honestly, "No." He used the same excuse about kissing because until recently he could honestly say he'd never kissed me. Now he can't say that... I don't know; he's done this once before, a long time ago, so I feel like he's set up all these rules from his previous experience that I just kinda go along with. It does seem like a huge step, those three little words. That takes us from being flirting friends to being in love. To say I'm in love with him... I feel like I am, but I'm still not 100% sure...
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: lilah_iv
Wed, 09-17-2003 - 2:25pm
oh definitely both! he will be way more attached to you and want more sexual contact and you'll be more emotionally because of the intimacy.

if and when he overcomes his guilt attacks and you agree to be intimate with him, everything changes. of course, he could pull back after you've been intimate, but it won't last too long. he'll want more of you. but your MM seems very "on the fence" about this R, as do you. if neither one of you is sure you want to proceed, put a little distance (no kissing, flirting) for a week or so and see if either or both of you is still interested in proceeding any further.

the R will snowball once you take it to the next level. count on it!

gurl

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-03-2003
In reply to: lilah_iv
Wed, 09-17-2003 - 2:59pm
We've taken a five-week break from kissing and about a three-week break from flirting before last week. The time away from that did change my feelings slightly...you can only be neglected so long before you finally start to just numb yourself to things. He's having a really, really hard time with "wanting me" this week. He says he's been trying so hard to be good, and that he has been for the past few weeks, but the effort he was trying to put into his marriage isn't working. The harder he tries, the more he gets slapped in the face (figuratively speaking, of course). So did this "on the fence" thing happen with anyone else before IC? Did anyone else have MM/OM who fought this every single step of the way and finally gave in? Did it get better after IC or did the "guilts" still happen? I just don't think I could handle sleeping with him, then coming back to work and having him be distant toward me for the three weeks while he dealt with it. Once I've given my entire body over to him, it would hurt too much to be pushed away like that. I've grappled with why I don't feel more guilty, but I think it's similar to what someone said the other day about being cautious. They said their OM was so cautious, they didn't have to be. It's the same with me about being guilty. He's so guilty I don't have to be. If we were just sailing right into things without a single hesitation, I'd be the one pulling back but because he stops every time, just as things seem to be progressing, I always have more than enough time to have doubts and guilt, usually around the same time he's going through his!
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-30-2003
In reply to: lilah_iv
Wed, 09-17-2003 - 3:11pm
Lilah, I have been following your postings today and something came to my mind about your situation. You say you have been holding off saying the love word because you want to be sure that you want him, but you don't seem to think his case of the guilts could be that he is sensing that you are holding something back from inspite of him being open with his emotions? Why is it its OK for you to hold back you emotions not OK for him have the "guilts"? If you feel so strong about him "backing of" then wny do torture yourself so much. Do you or do you not want to be in the EMA? I am confused by your logic here. Enlighten me please....
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2003
In reply to: lilah_iv
Wed, 09-17-2003 - 3:20pm
You should only say those words if you mean them and if you feel comfortable saying them. My MM and I have been together for 4 1/2 years. He was the one who actually said them to me first. We started out like most people. There was an attraction, and we ended up acting on it. It was like two months before be said it to me, and by then we had become very close. Even after all these years, I love him more than ever. Although things arent working as far as hooking up together as life mates, I will have to be content with what we have. Enough with my rambling, my point is that unless you feel the same way, you should never tell someone you love them. I'm the type of person who would wait for those words. Hopefully you'll have better luck.
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-30-2003
In reply to: lilah_iv
Wed, 09-17-2003 - 3:31pm
Its not about who telling whom first or anything like that. If lilah isn't sure she loves him shouldn't be saying it all. All I am saying it that she shouldn't be so upset if her MM pulls back, maybe he has a reason to do so. He probably has his reasons for pulling back.

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