A note for people leaving marriages!
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| Tue, 05-04-2004 - 11:31am |
a) it helps putting things into perspective without another person clouding your judgment.. what if you loved the OW/OM just because you had problems in your own M and that OW/OM is not really the right person for you
b) there are quite a few people here who got married early and didn't really enjoy a single life and then got burdened with kids, busy lives, taking care of "taker" spouses so why not go out, enjoy the field, date (you don't really need to have sex to enjoy a date), do some of the things that you always wanted to do in your life and never got the time to do it, etc
c) as they say "If you love someone, set them free ", if you and OW/OM are really meant to be, you will come back together...just like that Jack Nicholson movie with Diane Keaton....he fell in love but kept dating and eventually they end up back together and since he dated other people he knew for sure that this was the woman he wanted....I know most of the people here would assume that the OW/OM are their soul mate but what if they are not...then you have another failed R at your hands…I know for most people the impulse is to tie the knot when you find the person you want…but I think if you date more people after that it kind of solidifies your conviction that this person is definitely for you and years later when you look back in retrospect you could always trust your decision and not just think that you jumped into this person’s lap when you divorced your spouse..
d) for women here who are getting divorced...have kids…are waiting for MMs… first of all you don't have any biological clock ticking...you had kids…done with them...so this second phase of dating should be better than the first where one had the need to get married early because of the biological clock...so why not go out and enjoy dating because now there is no hurry to settle down early...
I know at least I would definitely enjoy time alone if I and H ever split our ways before jumping into another R even if I had one guy totally in love with me and available or not available…Anyway, a few rambling thoughts.
PG

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I think a lot of what you say here is true. I certainly think it is good to resolve your emotional attachments and issues before proceeding with another relationship. However, I don't think everyone does this in the same way. For me, it took me coming to terms with the fact that I wanted to end my M. Once I knew that was the right thing and was fully comfortable with it, I was able to move forward emotionally with IS. Not everyone would be able to do this. I want to comment on each line of reasoning you presented if I may:
a) I don't think you ever truly love someone just because of problems in a M. You may be drawn to them for this reason. You may seek them out for this reason. But if you love someone, it is about them, not about your M. And if the OW/OM is not the right person for you, you'll certainly find that out as you move forward. Of course, you may be setting yourself up for another heartbreak, but that is the price you pay I suppose. Again, I think it is less about the time that has passed than the way you have dealt with your own issues.
b) Some people truly do want to date and meet people and those individuals should do that. I think most of them will. But not everyone who got married young is worried about not having met enough people. I personally think it isn't about how many people you meet, but making sure your feelings and values are compatible with the person you fall in love with. And I believe you can find this person at any time in life. And if you go forward with your eyes open, I see no reason not to take the leap and try to make the R work. In other words, why go through the process of trying to find someone you've already found?
c) This, I believe, is total movie nonsense. The words "If you love someone, set them free" have probably cause more pain than just about any other short of "absence makes the heart grow fonder". When you find someone you have an amazing connection with and you both love one another, why in the world would you let them go just to be sure? If you're not sure, then take more time to get to know them before getting married. Meet their family, their friends, spend time in different situations. Live together. But don't break up just to make sure there isn't someone better out there. In fact, if you have the urge to do this, then I would suggest you already know this isn't the person for you.
d) In today's world, I would hope not that many women are getting married because of their biological clock. Women are having babies later in life all the time. And those that do have kids, I highly doubt they are looking forward to dating with all the added pressure of having kids at home to consider. Again, if they have found someone who they feel is the right person for them and who would be a good step-parent to their children, why go out and date a bunch of jerks just to make sure??
I guess I just don't understand why you are so insistent on this point PG. I agree that it is best to make decisions regarding the end of your M independent of how you feel about the OW/OM. Otherwise you're setting yourself up for failure in any future R. But once that decision is made and you are confident in it, I think you should be ready to move forward. Of course you should proceed slowly and with caution. No one should dive into another M right away. But I don't understand why you think anyone should walk away from someone they love. At what point would it be okay to fall in love then in your opinion? Is there some kind of waiting period like buying a handgun? Again, I'm not talking about getting married again. But to walk away from someone to date other people when that isn't what either of you want seems ludicrous to me.
a) Not leaving for OW/OM... I do think that it's hard to know for sure what you really want if you're jumping one R to another. And to be just completely candid, there may be some part of me that thinks, "Hmm... single again... I'll play the field a little, date some interesting people, then see if the OW is still hanging around." But in reality that seems pretty darned selfish, and while it may or may not be good for me personally, it also seems a little much on the "cake and eat it too" side. It's such a personal choice I think it's hard to really suggest taking time or not, but it definitely merits some thought. I think generally people who would blindly and breathlessly jump from one to another thinking it will be all roses are the ones to worry about most.
b) I think if you got married early you might really need time to examine who you are and want you want. The caveat being that if you are the type of person who does that anyway, you might be more ready than others in the same situation.
c) I agree, the more people you've dated the more solid you can feel in your convictions for whom you want to be with. For me, the OW and I have both dated lots of people. I feel pretty sure, and so does she. I think setting her free for me to date others at this point would be the same as taking our R out back and shooting it in the head for both of us. But our situation is hardly the same as anyone else's. Again, I think those starry-eyed folks who dreamily are overlooking those SO's who don't call, don't express themselves, or generally aren't meeting their needs already need to seriously consider looking around; those people aren't seeing the signs and will likely have problems down the road, IMHO. No relationship is perfect, but if you start out with so many problems... how can you think "s/he's the one!" ?
d) No reference clock for me. I'll pass that one.
Finally, I have to say... for a long time I told the OW I wasn't leaving my M for her, that I would have eventually left the M anyway. But now I don't think that's true. I never would have had the backbone to say "no more." It's just too hard, and I still care about my W in a very real way. I had an A because I had problems in my M. But I'm leaving because I finally see that what I stand to experience exceeds what I've been experiencing. And maybe in some way the fact that my W works constantly and my OW was 2000 miles away the first eight months creatives some pseudo along time...
rain
its not always a healthy environment to choose another person while already in another committed relationship...that decision can't really be trusted...ask anybody who is not in an affair and see what they have to say
how many here can be fully confident about the decision they made to marry their spouse...they always have some criteria other than compatibility to marry them (I was young, I had low self esteem, yadda yadda) ..isn't it better to be fully sure of one's decision when starting another R...that way when things do go sour between you and the new person you would not have the thought of "I chose this person while I was in the middle of a bad marriage" thought but rather " I am fully sure that I love this person because I had been with other people and was not compatible with any body else" thought...those other people are the same people whom your new spouse in going to meet at their work setting, in school, etc etc, if he/she couldn't resist them then when you guys were still testing the waters and not in a committed R...why would they resist them when in a relationship with you....i know this example sounds crass but its the same way one shops for something in a market...one does want the best thing for yourself and want to be sure of it...because that "sure" feeling is what gets you through low times...ask people who found themselves compatible and are married for years...don't they have troubles...they do...but they have faith in their decisions as opposed to people who jump from one relationship into another….and yes faith does come from knowing what’s out there and the person whom you have chosen is the best one for you..
the biological clock does worry women...in fact it is biggest worry for women who are in their late 20's, early 30s, late 30’s and are not married...maybe its not for you...
you asked why I was insistent about my thoughts...again I would let you know that we think differently...I throw in my ideas…you throw in yours...we certainly don’t have to agree. I am not going to ask you why you are insistent about your ideas because that’s your brain, your thoughts, your experiences….
IMHO
PG
PG
Edited 10/1/2004 7:01 pm ET ET by sally289
But again everybody has their own opinions and I just hate the fact that some of us here can outrightly call another person's views a "myth" without presenting anything logical against it.
PG
and now I'm using those thoughts to sort of play devil's advocate. I'm like that. LOL.
Didn't you say once that yours was an arranged marriage? If that's so, do you think that perhaps that tends to significantly color your thoughts about dating others? Were you afforded the opportunity to date a variety of men prior to marriage? Maybe it's a cultural difference since I know your faith is different from probably the majority of other posters here? I'm just curious, especially given the apparent differences in your upbringing compared to white, middle American, middle class me. LOL.
I've just been reading and wondering. I'm not really disagreeing with you or trying to poke holes in the points you were trying to make, just wondering what experiences and frame of reference we all bring to this discussion; opinions seem to vary on the idea of dating others between Rs to "know for sure." I'm also curious how those opinions vary across age demographics.
It suddenly occurs to me I should have gone into counseling or some sort of social science... instead of liberal drinking... er, liberal arts.
rain
Now, I still feel I must comment here. I find the analogy between two relationships and two salespeople to be quite sad. I could never look at my feelings for someone and compare them to my willingness to buy a product from a salesperson. I know it is just an example, but I think it is kind of disturbing. I'm sorry, but for me, there is so much more than just the day to day and functional parts of a relationship. Those are important of course, but without the love and strong emotional bond, they mean nothing.
I believe it is crucial to resolve the issues that contributed to the fail of your previous relationship. But I also believe it is possible to do that while proceeding in your new relationship. Again, you have to be very self-reflective, but if you're not, odds are you won't ever resolve those issues no matter how much time off you take. As far as keeping options open goes, I guess that just isn't very attractive to me. I don't feel the need to be able to bolt at a moment's notice. I'm comfortable knowing that there is someone who cares about me and is counting on me. And frankly, I'm not a "grass is always greener" type by nature. I appreciate someone who appreciates me.
I don't think boston was trying to insult you by calling what you were offering up a myth. But the fact is so many of these cliches have been tossed about in our society and many people do believe them without really examining why. I mean from my perspective, these are the sayings we should follow:
Absence makes people grow distant.
If you love someone, work to stay together.
Edited 5/4/2004 2:49 pm ET ET by omahamm
Edited 5/4/2004 2:50 pm ET ET by omahamm
In my society, it is taboo to go out alone with a man or to so call date a guy. Having sex with them is definitely out of the question. So I never really dated a man. But since I was an army brat and would have all these army parties to go to and meet all the other army brats and was always in co-ed schools so did have plenty of opportunity to meet men, converse with them but I definitely did not have that American style one on one dating experience. Did I really have a wish at that age to go date men? Not really. Do I have regrets about it. No since I did get a lot of opportunities to get to know them and since I would have never banged them anyway :) so the opportunity to know them was enough for me. I like people and am always curious to find out more about them whether it’s a man or a woman. I find the idea of meeting people of other sex just for sizing them up as to whether they are marriage material or not ridiculous. One could have innocent harmless fun on a date but most of what I have observed about dating in the American media, its like getting drunk and removing one’s inhibitions so that one can have a good time. I believe that only the getting to know a stranger and his life story can be a good time. I also realize that people are getting less and less curious about knowing other people. So on a date, one is really not interested in who that other person is, unless the other person is good looking and has all the right criteria to be marriage worthy. Those are my observations. I might be wrong. You asked about the “for sure” thing. If I am starting a R, its very important for me to know that I am “the One” for him. If the other person just had a pregnancy at home and is claiming his attraction for me (I am not intending this for Omaha but I did have 2 of those instances played out with me on chat), or is going through a divorce and claiming his love for me or just had a death in the family and proclaims his love, its just difficult to trust his feelings. I would rather that he is out of whatever situation that he is in, has had a chance to breathe, meet other people and then tell me he loves me. That would just make me more trustful of his feelings and if we are eventually together I would be more confident of that person when he is with people of the opposite sex. Same logic applies to me.
I understand you are of catholic background and converted to Buddhism. If you are not aware, the highest number of people that convert to Islam in States are Catholics (mostly Latinos) so your interest in Islam because of whatever reasons *wink * wink* might not be that unexpected :-P
PG
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