OM & Pre-Cana

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2004
OM & Pre-Cana
22
Wed, 04-14-2004 - 4:43pm
Well, I just returned from a week and a half long vacation. Had minimal contact with OM during this time, except for a few e-mails and text messages. Today, I went to OM's place to hang out and tell him about my trip. We talked, cuddled a bit, and fooled around a little, but didn't have sex. As I was about to leave, OM asks, "When do you think we'll have this out of our system?" Confused, I asked him what he meant.

He went on to explain that he wondered when we would have the physical part of our relationship "out of our systems" and just be friends. Still confused, I asked him why he was asking this of me now.

He explained that he is going to a pre-cana retreat this weekend with his fiancee' in preparation for their wedding next year and that he thought the pre-cana experience might mean the end of the physical part of our relationship. I didn't know what to say. I am not Catholic, so I don't really know what is involved, although I have friends who have gone on these retreats.

I guess I'm kind of confused, and not sure what to do. On one hand, I respect his religion and everything, but there is a part of me (maybe a mean selfish part) that doesn't see what that has to do with us, and feels hurt that he said this.

Anyone have any words of advice/support? I won't talk to OM again until at least Sunday. He is out of town until Friday, then he leaves Friday night to go on the retreat.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-04-2004
Wed, 04-14-2004 - 5:26pm
Circe,

I'm not Catholic, but I played with some Catholic kids once... and I dated a good Catholic girl, wink, wink.

My *guess* is that your OM looks ahead to this weekend and estimates the intensity of the retreat process. I have done a Catholic retreat with some friends in my youth, and if you haven't been through it, it can be a very intense experience. If he has done retreats at all in the past, he knows what kind of heavy-hitting he's in for.

If he's doing a weekend as a precursor to marriage it will be a strong dogma kind of thing. My Catholic friend just got married and let me tell you that this is a faith that doesn't believe in divorce. They were advised never to even *say* divorce because it's "proven to increase the chance of becoming divorced if you talk about it." And I can't necessarily argue with that. And maybe you become gay by talking about that, too...

Anyway, it sounds like your OM might be looking at this weekend, knowing he's going to get intense repetition of "thou shalt not" and such, and kind of trying to distance himself from his A. It has to do with you in that way, such that he apparently intends to get married and doesn't want to do so with the weight of an A hanging over him. Of course, that's just silly because the original problem or combination of problems will likely still exist when or if he marries this girl.

I hope I'm wrong, but as for advice/support... well, sweetie, it's wait and see, at best. Catholicism didn't get to be as big as it is by having inefficient dogma and guilt, and they will seek to beat any urge to cheat into submission this weekend. Next year is a long way off; he might come back to you. For now though, if I were a betting man, I'd be sorry to bet that he will at minimum go through a process of distancing himself from you immediately following the weekend. Again, guilt is a powerful thing, and after this weekend he might briefly forget what it is he went looking for with you.

Good luck. Sorry if I'm negative, just trying to be honest with my (unusually) high level of Catholic experience, despite being non-Catholic.

rain

(this post not intended to inflame, irritate,

insult or otherwise demean the lovely Catholic faith,

which I do in fact find quite soothing in its

predictability and consistency... at least for

the last 1000 years or so...)

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2004
Wed, 04-14-2004 - 8:21pm
Raining, thank you so much for your reply!!! As usual, your response was honest and thought provoking, and I really appreciate that. I think you completely hit the nail on the head in your analysis of the situation. OM was raised Catholic, as was his fiancee'. My take on the situation is that she is much more religious than he is. He didn't really go into detail about what this weekend will entail, and I didn't ask. But from what people who have gone through Pre Cana have told me, it's either a really positive or a really negative experience. OM did say that his fiancee' is "really looking forward to it" and that she "thinks it will be a really good thing for them", whatever that means...

I do agree, that he seems to be distancing himself from the A. And this can't be a coincidence because before I left for my trip he was completely into it. Now, two weeks later and this retreat is coming up, and it's "let's just focus on the friendship". I guess as with everything else in this A, I am completely confused.

So...my question to you, dear raining, is what should I do? My instinct is to just let him have his space and maybe event try NC or at least minimal C for a while and let him figure it out. It will be hard, but I guess that's what I have to do.

Thanks again for responding. I always look forward to reading your posts!

:)

Circe

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-15-2004
Wed, 04-14-2004 - 8:26pm
Circe,

I have to agree with Rain on this one.

My xMM is Catholic as well. And although we do connect on a spiritual level, which I love, I myself am not Catholic.

On one hand I love his faith in his religion, and on the other hand it annoyed me to some lengths. The fact that he could "sleep" with me one day and then the next day, because of his guilt, say to me "You know that we're breaking one of the ten commandments".

Huh?

If you feel that guilty, why'd you sleep with me in the first place? Why do you kiss me, touch me, hug me, every chance you get?

My answer to him was, "Well, we're not committing murder, we are not stealing - and people covet other's possessions everyday. Do you not yourself say, oh I wish I had a house like that, a car like that, a wife like that" LOL

Now, I'm not saying that my view on this right either, and I do not wish to get into the big religion argument, but let's face it, we are sinners. And my biggest concern regarding the Catholic religion (oh, I'm going to start something here I'm sure), is that they don't allow their priests to marry - that maybe if they did, then many little boys would have been safe from their sodomy. JMO So you see, even those that preach to us everyday, are sinners - and they apparently will be forgiven! I wonder where their guilt lays.

I guess my point is that in being a Catholic, holds much responsibility in the minds of those that practice. It weighs on them. I've actually noticed a pattern with my xMM, that approximately 2 weeks before Christmas he broke things off and then again 2 weeks before Easter. Very suspicious!

Well, I don't know if this has helped at all - I guess I'm still in venting mode. All I can say is be patient, stay strong and as my xMM told me "Keep the faith"

(((hugs circe))))

Take care

Red

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2004
Wed, 04-14-2004 - 8:35pm
Thanks Red!!! I was actually raised Catholic, and practiced until I was in high school. Then, once I began to actually understand the church's views on certain issues (not getting specific as not to offend anyone) I decided that it really wasn't my cup of tea. Nothing against Catholics, my parents are strict Irish and Italian Catholic, just wasn't for me.

So 10 years later when planning my wedding, I decided I wasn't marrying in the Catholic church - caused a big uproar in my family. H's family doesn't practice any religion, although his parents are Christian.

So we got married in a non-denominational ceremony by a Reverend. It was actually like a civil ceremony but had a blessing and 2 readings.

Anyway, I don't really understand Catholicism either, and am surprised that OM all of a sudden feels this guilt with the Pre Cana looming on the horizon. I guess it's the way he was raised. Also, I think his fiancee' has something to do with his feelings since she seems to be very enthusiastic about the retreat.

I guess all I can do is wait and see. I won't have contact with him until at least Sunday, and then I guess I'll let him make the first move. Probably he will e-mail me from work on Monday.

<> And the rollercoaster rolls on!!! LOL

:)

Circe

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-04-2004
Thu, 04-15-2004 - 9:39am
A quick reply to Red before moving on... if I recall my second hand Catholic history correctly, priests were not always required to be celibate (though I can't remember about getting married.) If memory serves, the problem arose when a the church began receiving paternity suits against them and it was taking money out of the church coffers. At some point the church declared all priests were to be celibate, because if you're celibate, you can't be out fathering children, now can you?

Circe, dearie, you ask me what you should do?

I wish I had any advice. Like I said yesterday, Catholicism is a pretty efficient system. And anyone who really actively participates in it finds it really hard to go against it. If they do, they get Catholic Guilt and have to talk about it, as was mentioned. Yeah, we're all sinners, and real hard liners will tell you that adultery is the same as murder in the eyes of God. Of course those are the same people that turn away the "bad people" despite the fact that's often who Jesus chose to spend his time amongst. But I digress.

With everything going on, it does sound like he's trying to get his distance. If his fiance thinks "it will be a really good thing" what does he think? Maybe he thinks it will be good too and that problems will be solved with her, leaving him to have to deal with you when he gets back; in that case, better to do it before leaving so he can focus on her.

Or maybe she thinks it will be a good thing because God will put him back in line. I've been to that particular session, the "drag you back to church so God can show you we're right together." Strange, God has yet to appear with a clear message, and as recently as last Sunday I gave him the chance. So maybe your OM is dreading it because he's going to be hammered all weekend and he doesn't know if he can withstand it.

I really wish I had something more soothing to say, but there are just so many possibilities... all I can do is ramble on. When in doubt (as you are) trust your instinct. Avoid "analysis paralysis." If you decide to go NC and his weekend is a revelation, then you're part of the way towards healing and he is happy and grateful that you exited gracefully. If you go NC and his weekend sucks like a black hole, then missing you will drive him to make some sort of decision, in which case you get to control the terms of reconnection. Either way you take control for yourself and in the end I think you'll feel better. It seems to feel better just consciously deciding something; you can always change your mind later if the situation changes.

And your post really reads like you have an idea what action to take. It's just action that won't be fun. Growth spurts bring growing pains, and I'm guessing you're about to shoot up a few inches, emotionally speaking.

Good luck, let me know what happens. I'll be thinking about you.

rain

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-16-2003
Thu, 04-15-2004 - 9:52am
Red, I had to crack up with your post. Esp about the part of xMM breaking up before Xmas and Easter. My OM is catholic too and we have had bitter fights during Lent and before right before Easter. Hmmmm, I never thought of it that way. *grin*

I don't know much about being a Catholic, but every religon has it cons as much as the pros. Lets us not forget most of the con are really due to man-made rituals we practice without giving too much thought to them than anything else.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-16-2004
Thu, 04-15-2004 - 9:56am
Hmmm...my MM is Catholic. He's not distanced away from me around the holidays, but then again, I don't believe he's a strict devout Catholic. He goes to church, but not regularly. It's just strange that a lot of our MM are Catholic. I'll have to ponder that one! ;)
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2004
Thu, 04-15-2004 - 9:59am
Thanks again, Rain!!! I guess I'm looking for a simple answer to a non-simple problem... Actually, OM e-mailed me last night several times. I got the e-mails this morning but haven't responded yet.

As for his fiancee', I am 99.9% certain she doesn't know about us, but I do know that she is 1 - very religious and 2 - very controlling.

I may respond to his e-mails, but keep it light and not too personal. I guess I'm just nervous as to the outcome of this weekend.

And as much as it hurts me to admit it, you are right, either way the weekend is sure to change his perspective on things, either good or bad. And I guess I'm pretty powerless to do anything about it at this point except to wait and respect whatever decision he makes. The hardest part of all of this is that OM has stressed repeatedly that he wants to stay close friends no matter what. I know I could go back to that, but it would just hurt, that's all.

Thanks again for your insight and honesty. It really helps to have an objective male viewpoint.

:)

Circe

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2004
Thu, 04-15-2004 - 10:03am
Noregrets and Juliets - that is strange that a lot of our OM are Catholic. Has that ever come up as an issue with either of you? And if so, how did you handle it? This is all new to me, because it has never come up before at all. So now with this pre-Cana thing, I am just totally thrown that all of a sudden religion is an issue.
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-16-2003
Thu, 04-15-2004 - 10:08am
Well, my OM is not devout Catholic either. But I have wonder just like Red about the coincidence between our fights and Easter/Xmas. LOL

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